powermail-discuss Digest #2662 - Saturday, July 14, 2007
Re: annoying problem with power mail
by "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Charles Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: annoying problem with power mail
by "T.L. Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Web support vs. email support groups
by "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Web support vs. email support groups
by "Jim Pistrang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Web support vs. email support groups
by "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "T.L. Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bad aftersales Service
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: annoying problem with power mail
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
by "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Cotty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
by "C. A. Niemiec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): annoying problem with power mail
by "Moritz Majce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): annoying problem with power mail
by "Moritz Majce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Forthcoming with support
by "Carl Darby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): Forthcoming with support
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: annoying problem with power mail
From: "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:58:33 -0700
Hi All,
trying to help out with this even though I was not the original reporter.
1. For me this is VERY rare. Maybe even hasn't happened since 5.5.3,
I can't say for sure.
OS X version? 10.4.9 of late. Except for not going to 10.4.10 right away
I generally update right away. I may have never seen this in 10.4.9
Any haxies installed?
Nope
Hardware? MacBookPro, 2GB, 120MB HD
Display size? 1440 x 900
More than one display? No, just 1
PM 5.5.3 currently. English.
Does the problem remain if you switch user? Never tried this.
The picture that Moritz provided exactly matches my recollection
for this condition. The To/CC/BCC column is missing (or more likely
jammed under the left-hand side of the scrolling area) and the
left part of the user name is jammed under the left side too.
I hope this helps.
Again, this is not an issue for me, I haven't seen it in quite a while.
I'm just trying to provide a second data point in the hopes this
can be fixed for Moritz.
Bruce
--
Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
As Rene Merz wrote...
>Moritz Majce wrote
>
>>i put a screenshot on <http://www.monokultur.com/pm/problem.jpg>
>
>Sorry, but this shot doesn't help to understand the problem.
>Could you please show it with filled-in (fictive) name and/or mail-address?
>
>Anyway your Mail-Window looks strange.
>I miss the column-names (in german=: "Als" [for To/CC/BCC] and "Name" and
>"Konto:" [for your account] as well).
>
>Seems that you should make a new installation of PM.
>
>By the way:
>It's very normal that the "Name"-field ist activated first. There you can
>write-in the mail-address (if you don't know or don't like to write a
>name) - after the mail-address-field will be filled automatically.
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Charles Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:15:15 -0400
The Cat wrote (13/07/2007):
>
>My masters dropped the ball a number of times, but I thank you for
>pinging me since I have no access to the keyboard otherwise.
Maybe that explains it. My last attempt to contact you (using the help
menu) was to request a multi-user rate for FoxTrot, after I had failed
to obtain one by e-mailing Sales. After you did not answer that, I
figured that you must be trapped within a bag, so there was no point
ever to try contacting CTM again.
Anyway, since you appear to be alive, I would appreciate your contacting
me off the list about another matter.
>Derry Thompson wrote (13/07/2007):
>
>>>If the developers don't
>>>have the time to support the product, they might at least set up a web-
>>>based forum.
>>
>>What's wrong with an e-mail forum?
Let's say that I know nothing about computers, I just want to use them.
I have a question about Apple's Mail, I go to Apple's web-based forum
and search for an answer. There is a good chance that I will find one
and if I do not, I can ask a question and receive notice of a reply. If
I have a question about PowerMail, I cannot look up any previous
discussion and I must subscribe to a list to ask the question. Before
the question is answered I will receive a lot of mail I don't care about
and then I need to unsubscribe.
>The Cat wrote (13/07/2007):
>
>We are thinking of
>a forum-like format although more for FoxTrot than for PowerMail, since
>the dynamic and contributions on powermail-discuss are pretty exceptional.
By not having a web-based forum for PowerMail, you are providing no
quickly accessible means of support. Without retailers to flog and back
up the product, this is shooting yourselves in the foot.
>On a more serious note: yes, it is possible to redirect an HTML message
>(forwarding will only forward its text portion, since we do not include
>an HTML editor in the product)
The purpose is to forward developers spam that their filter missed, to
help them improve the filters. I do not want to redirect the spam, I
want to incorporate it within a forwarded message. I also want to be
able to forward headers of non-spam that was identified as spam. Is
there no way to do this with a script?
Charles Maurer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: annoying problem with power mail
From: "T.L. Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:42:54 -0400
On 7/13/07, at 12:33 AM, Moritz Majce [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>what can I do about this? I do not want to switch to apple?s "mail" but
>I cannot work properly with this bug..
I have seen this several times, but considered it a minor nuisance --
not a show-stopper. Somehow I have dealt with it, but don't remember
exactly how.
Tom Miller
..................................................
"The only time we see the middle of the road is as
we run from side to side." R.O.Clark
...................................................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Web support vs. email support groups
From: "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:05:00 -0700
Hi Masters of PowerMail,
Regarding the forum vs. email method of community
support...
I must admit one of the perceived negatives I saw
when considering switching to PowerMail was the
lack of any visible way to reach support.
Having a forum prominently available would have
been encouraging for me.
Here's what I wrote to a friend Sept-22-2006:
>Ah, you have hit on another "con" they seem a bit clueless in
>supporting materials. I think they take bug reports seriously,
>but, for example I could not find a way to submit one. :-(
>
>
>Here's a link to the manual (also lighter than I'd like.)
><http://www.ctmdev.com/documentation/manual.html>
>
>Here's their discussion forum too (also not publicized):
><http://www.mail-archive.com/powermail-discuss@ctmdev.com/>
As far as I recall you have to subscribe in order to find
the archive, it's not available to someone surfing the
web site.
For what it's worth. :-)
Bruce
--
Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Web support vs. email support groups
From: "Jim Pistrang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:17:14 -0400
Hi Bruce,
>I must admit one of the perceived negatives I saw
>when considering switching to PowerMail was the
>lack of any visible way to reach support.
When I click on 'Send a Message to PowerMail Support...' in the
PowerMail Help Menu it pops up an email with the following data already
filled in:
PowerMail support case #
PowerMail version:
Mac OS version:
Customer ID:
I assume that this is the best way to reach support.
Jim
--
Jim Pistrang
JP Computer Resources
Certified Member, Apple Consultants Network
413-256-4569
<http://www.jpcr.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Web support vs. email support groups
From: "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:31:31 -0700
Hi Jim,
Yes, I agree that's best, but I didn't discover that
until this discussion mentioned it.
Bruce
--
Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
As Jim Pistrang wrote...
>Hi Bruce,
>
>>I must admit one of the perceived negatives I saw
>>when considering switching to PowerMail was the
>>lack of any visible way to reach support.
>
>When I click on 'Send a Message to PowerMail Support...' in the
>PowerMail Help Menu it pops up an email with the following data already
>filled in:
>
> PowerMail support case #
> PowerMail version:
> Mac OS version:
> Customer ID:
>
>I assume that this is the best way to reach support.
>
>Jim
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400
With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
requests. I could copy my past questions here, but that would be
tedious. I assure you they have all been polite.
The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
written, but they have not followed through.
My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
in its effect. The advantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
community informed of questions than a forum might.
However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
many people from signing up in the first place.
If there are relatively few questions and responses to a mailing list it
might work for most people. As the number of emails increases it becomes
unwieldy. Then a forum makes more sense. Also, a forum takes you first
to the ability to search for answers, rather than posting a question as
a first step. (Yes, I know there is a PowerMail discussions archive, but
the email list discourages use of that.)
- Winston
The Cat wrote:
>Charles, dear Mr. Darby,
>
>My masters dropped the ball a number of times, but I thank you for
>pinging me since I have no access to the keyboard otherwise.
>
>On a more serious note: yes, it is possible to redirect an HTML message
>(forwarding will only forward its text portion, since we do not include
>an HTML editor in the product) and we have not been able to reproduce
>anything such as the disappearance of an address.
>
>Finally, two comments: one is that Charlie is right, we are thinking of
>a forum-like format although more for FoxTrot than for PowerMail, since
>the dynamic and contributions on powermail-discuss are pretty exceptional.
>
>The other comment is that I sometimes get discouraged by certain support
>messages who are repeatedly abrasive, terse or rude in their e-mails.
>Developers, and their cats, have feelings too (I regret to confess this)...
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400
With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
requests. I could copy them here, which would be tedious, but I assure
you they have all been polite.
The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
written, but they have not followed through.
My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
in its effect. The disadvantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
community informed of questions than a forum might.
However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
many people from signing up at all.
The Cat wrote:
>Charles, dear Mr. Darby,
>
>My masters dropped the ball a number of times, but I thank you for
>pinging me since I have no access to the keyboard otherwise.
>
>On a more serious note: yes, it is possible to redirect an HTML message
>(forwarding will only forward its text portion, since we do not include
>an HTML editor in the product) and we have not been able to reproduce
>anything such as the disappearance of an address.
>
>Finally, two comments: one is that Charlie is right, we are thinking of
>a forum-like format although more for FoxTrot than for PowerMail, since
>the dynamic and contributions on powermail-discuss are pretty exceptional.
>
>The other comment is that I sometimes get discouraged by certain support
>messages who are repeatedly abrasive, terse or rude in their e-mails.
>Developers, and their cats, have feelings too (I regret to confess this)...
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "T.L. Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:47:34 -0400
On 7/13/07, at 6:10 PM, Winston Weinmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
>requests. I could copy my past questions here, but that would be
>tedious. I assure you they have all been polite.
Hmmm, I have gotten several private responses from Jérôme when I e-
mailed him with problems over the last several years. I don't think CTM
Dev. has a large staff, so I have mostly relied on the expertise of the
members of this mail list when problems cropped up.
Tom Miller
..................................................
"The only time we see the middle of the road is as
we run from side to side." R.O.Clark
...................................................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bad aftersales Service
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:53:22 +0900
Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:30:59 -0400 schrieb/wrote Charles Maurer:
>Carl Darby wrote (13/07/2007):
>
>>Does anybody else get lack of response to Powermail developers. I have
>>sent about five emails to their customer support and have got no answer.
>>The only one I did get a reply to was when I complained about their
>>product. Might just as well ask the cat!
>
>Some cats I know have been more forthcoming. If the developers don't
>have the time to support the product, they might at least set up a web-
>based forum.
what's wrong with this list?
If you have a problem, search first the archives, which can be found here:
<http://tinyurl.com/ypovoh>
then you can ask here on the list.
The list is read by the developers and they will respond if there's a
real problem.
all the best
Matthias
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: annoying problem with power mail
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:55:58 +0900
Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:50:57 +0200 schrieb/wrote Rene Merz:
>Mikael Byström hat am Freitag, 13. Juli 2007 geschrieben:
>
>>>i put a screenshot on <http://www.monokultur.com/pm/problem.jpg>
>>Well, we see the name field being somewhat displaced, yes. Could you
>>please restart PM under english and see if the problem remains? You do
>>this by quitting PM and show info on the PM app icon and change the
>>settings under language.
>
>It has nothing to do with the language version.
>I run the german version too but don't know that problem.
same here ... never seen this.
We run PM in German and English (all still PPC) maybe it's an Intel
related problem or some haxie installed on that box.
Thanks and all the best
Matthias
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:05:29 +0900
Mr. Weinmann,
calling this list a source of spam is a serious offense to all list members.
If you can't read the users manual nor search the archive, with all
respect, go somewhere else.
CTM never lacked support, but they won't answer you questions if you can
find the answer in the users manual. That are not support cases that's a
lack of reading ability.
Matthias
Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
>requests. I could copy my past questions here, but that would be
>tedious. I assure you they have all been polite.
>
>The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
>they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
>within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
>written, but they have not followed through.
>
>
>My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
>spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
>those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
>list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
>
>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>in its effect. The advantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>
>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>many people from signing up in the first place.
>
>If there are relatively few questions and responses to a mailing list it
>might work for most people. As the number of emails increases it becomes
>unwieldy. Then a forum makes more sense. Also, a forum takes you first
>to the ability to search for answers, rather than posting a question as
>a first step. (Yes, I know there is a PowerMail discussions archive, but
>the email list discourages use of that.)
>
>- Winston
>
>
>
>The Cat wrote:
>
>>Charles, dear Mr. Darby,
>>
>>My masters dropped the ball a number of times, but I thank you for
>>pinging me since I have no access to the keyboard otherwise.
>>
>>On a more serious note: yes, it is possible to redirect an HTML message
>>(forwarding will only forward its text portion, since we do not include
>>an HTML editor in the product) and we have not been able to reproduce
>>anything such as the disappearance of an address.
>>
>>Finally, two comments: one is that Charlie is right, we are thinking of
>>a forum-like format although more for FoxTrot than for PowerMail, since
>>the dynamic and contributions on powermail-discuss are pretty exceptional.
>>
>>The other comment is that I sometimes get discouraged by certain support
>>messages who are repeatedly abrasive, terse or rude in their e-mails.
>>Developers, and their cats, have feelings too (I regret to confess this)...
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
From: "Bruce Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:39:16 -0700
Hi Matthias,
I think if you re-read what he actually said you'll find it is
not the quality of the (mostly) polite, reasoned, informed,
helpful, understanding, compassionate messages that are being
exchanged that Mr. Weinmann is referring to that he was attaching
the potential "spam-like" label to. It's the quantity
and possibly the lack of organization of the messages.
The quantity and "signal to noise ratio" is still high enough
for me to continue reading for the volume of email on the list.
BUT if the volume were 10 times the current level, even at
better quality, I'd unsubscribe. Too much to process, not
worth the effort. It's the volume that would be spam-like,
not the messages. :-)
In a forum you can select the topics of interest to you
so you can avoid 100s of messages that are not of interest
with next to zero effort.
That was his argument for forum over email.
Obviously the 3 of us are willing, at this point, to use
the mail system, it's just that at least 2 of us would prefer
a forum. (Maybe we should switch to the archive to get closer
to what we want.)
All the best,
Bruce
--
Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
As Matthias Schmidt wrote...
>Mr. Weinmann,
>
>calling this list a source of spam is a serious offense to all list members.
>If you can't read the users manual nor search the archive, with all
>respect, go somewhere else.
>CTM never lacked support, but they won't answer you questions if you can
>find the answer in the users manual. That are not support cases that's a
>lack of reading ability.
>
>Matthias
>
>
>
>Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>
<snip>
>>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>>in its effect. The advantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>>
>>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>>many people from signing up in the first place.
<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:19:51 +0900
Bruce,
I receive between 300 to 500 mails per day from different mailinglists
and approx. 0.5 mails from those are coming from the pm list!
With the help of PowerMail I manage to read everything I'm interested in
and to trash the rest.
I can't help, but I have the impression you guys just can't really use
this precious piece of software.
Webforums are not an alternative at all. They are so much more time
intensive, extremely slow, you always have to login etc.....
Matthias
Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:39:16 -0700 schrieb/wrote Bruce Barrett:
>Hi Matthias,
>
>I think if you re-read what he actually said you'll find it is
>not the quality of the (mostly) polite, reasoned, informed,
>helpful, understanding, compassionate messages that are being
>exchanged that Mr. Weinmann is referring to that he was attaching
>the potential "spam-like" label to. It's the quantity
>and possibly the lack of organization of the messages.
>
>The quantity and "signal to noise ratio" is still high enough
>for me to continue reading for the volume of email on the list.
>BUT if the volume were 10 times the current level, even at
>better quality, I'd unsubscribe. Too much to process, not
>worth the effort. It's the volume that would be spam-like,
>not the messages. :-)
>
>In a forum you can select the topics of interest to you
>so you can avoid 100s of messages that are not of interest
>with next to zero effort.
>
>That was his argument for forum over email.
>
>Obviously the 3 of us are willing, at this point, to use
>the mail system, it's just that at least 2 of us would prefer
>a forum. (Maybe we should switch to the archive to get closer
>to what we want.)
>
>All the best,
>
>Bruce
>
>--
>Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
>
>As Matthias Schmidt wrote...
>
>>Mr. Weinmann,
>>
>>calling this list a source of spam is a serious offense to all list members.
>>If you can't read the users manual nor search the archive, with all
>>respect, go somewhere else.
>>CTM never lacked support, but they won't answer you questions if you can
>>find the answer in the users manual. That are not support cases that's a
>>lack of reading ability.
>>
>>Matthias
>>
>>
>>
>>Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>>
><snip>
>>>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>>>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>>>in its effect. The advantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>>>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>>>
>>>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>>>many people from signing up in the first place.
><snip>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Cotty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:02:28 +0100
On 13/7/07, Winston Weinmann, discombobulated, unleashed:
>With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
>requests. I could copy them here, which would be tedious, but I assure
>you they have all been polite.
>
>The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
>they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
>within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
>written, but they have not followed through.
>
>My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
>spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
>those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
>list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
>
>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>in its effect. The disadvantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>
>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>many people from signing up at all.
With no respect at all, may I suggest that you unsubscribe from this
spam list and help cut down on wasted bandwidth?
--
Cheers,
Cotty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
From: "C. A. Niemiec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:50:20 -0400
>BUT if the volume were 10 times the current level, even at
>better quality, I'd unsubscribe.
Actually, this list has been very quiet this year.
I miss the "eyeball" discussions. ;)
Chris
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): annoying problem with power mail
From: "Moritz Majce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:46:46 +0200
i run powermail on a powermc quad g5. so it is not intel-related.
>Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:50:57 +0200 schrieb/wrote Rene Merz:
>
>>Mikael Byström hat am Freitag, 13. Juli 2007 geschrieben:
>>
>>>>i put a screenshot on <http://www.monokultur.com/pm/problem.jpg>
>>>Well, we see the name field being somewhat displaced, yes. Could you
>>>please restart PM under english and see if the problem remains? You do
>>>this by quitting PM and show info on the PM app icon and change the
>>>settings under language.
>>
>>It has nothing to do with the language version.
>>I run the german version too but don't know that problem.
>
>same here ... never seen this.
>We run PM in German and English (all still PPC) maybe it's an Intel
>related problem or some haxie installed on that box.
>
>Thanks and all the best
>
>Matthias
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): annoying problem with power mail
From: "Moritz Majce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:58:12 +0200
http://www.monokultur.com/pm/1.jpg
this is how it looks like when i click the reply-button the first time.
http://www.monokultur.com/pm/2.jpg
this is how it looks like after i closed the window and then re-clicked
the reply-button.
it has nothing to do with language settings or intel/ppc.
moritz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Forthcoming with support
From: "Carl Darby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:02:27 +0100
Cotty
With no respect also, I totally agree with Winston's comments. The
sooner CTM realise that not everybody is happy - and there are lots of
us; I myself have had 22 private emails since posting my comment - the
better for all concerned. How can that be wasted bandwidth if some good
becomes of it?
>On 13/7/07, Winston Weinmann, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
>>requests. I could copy them here, which would be tedious, but I assure
>>you they have all been polite.
>>
>>The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
>>they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
>>within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
>>written, but they have not followed through.
>>
>>My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
>>spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
>>those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
>>list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
>>
>>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>>in its effect. The disadvantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>>
>>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>>many people from signing up at all.
>
>With no respect at all, may I suggest that you unsubscribe from this
>spam list and help cut down on wasted bandwidth?
>
>
>
>--
>
>
>Cheers,
> Cotty
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): Forthcoming with support
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:31:46 -0400
Please understand that when I say "spam" (in quotes) it means email that
I do not find helpful which fills my in box. I do not mean spam in the
classic sense of junk mail, phishing schemes, etc. Clearly there is a
need for a word which explains email of which a portion may be of
interest, but the vast majority of which I don't need.
As and example, I prefer to go to a news site when I have an interest in
a topic than to have RSS feeds or most other newsletters sent to my in
box. This happens to be the most convenient way for me. It may not be
for you or others.
There is a cost in time to research any question. In my case, I think a
forum would be more efficient for my needs. I was on the PM list some
time ago, and did unsubscribe. I came back because CTM did not answer my
questions as its web site said it would. I still have some questions, so
I have stayed, for now.
That does not mean it is my preferred option, simply that on balance it
is more useful for me than not, right now. I feel the same thing about
Microsoft Word, which I would gladly drop if WordPerfect for Mac came
back. I have in the past lobbied for WordPerfect to come back to the Mac.
This list provides feedback to CTM. If you had a request of them, would
you not post it here?
- Winston
Cotty wrote:
>On 13/7/07, Winston Weinmann, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>With all due respect, my experience is that CTM never answers help
>>requests. I could copy them here, which would be tedious, but I assure
>>you they have all been polite.
>>
>>The reason I find CTM's lack of support particularly disturbing is that
>>they have stated on their web site that they will get back to users
>>within a couple of days. I am sure this was CTM's intent when that was
>>written, but they have not followed through.
>>
>>My suggestion to CTM is to confess that they are unable or unwilling to
>>spend the time on individual support requests, and to strongly encourage
>>those with problems to address them to the PowerMail discussion mailing
>>list, as this is the only place they are likely to get help.
>>
>>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>>in its effect. The disadvantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>>
>>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>>many people from signing up at all.
>
>With no respect at all, may I suggest that you unsubscribe from this
>spam list and help cut down on wasted bandwidth?
>
>
>
>--
>
>
>Cheers,
> Cotty
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): Forthcoming with support ( re: calling things spam)
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:43:04 -0400
Matthias -
Please re-read Bruce's post. You find the mailing list forum very
useful. Others may find a forum format more useful. There is nothing
wrong with having a difference of opinion on that.
I do in fact use PM to easily trash most of the mailing lists posts, and
yes, it is relatively easy to do. But I'd prefer not to have to do it at
all. You don't mind doing that. Because we have different working styles
does not mean that some people would not find a forum more convenient.
I can certainly make arguments why a forum would be less convenient for
many users. You have made some of them. However, the convenience depends
on how someone uses them. I do agree that getting answers on the mailing
list is faster than using a forum, but at the cost of getting some
extraneous email. As Bruce said, there is a trade-off point. I suspect
even you would not want to be on a mailing list that included every
question submitted to Apple's forums, for example.
Different people will have a different trade-off point. That does not
mean that one or the other is wrong about what works for them.
- Winston
Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>I receive between 300 to 500 mails per day from different mailinglists
>and approx. 0.5 mails from those are coming from the pm list!
>With the help of PowerMail I manage to read everything I'm interested in
>and to trash the rest.
>I can't help, but I have the impression you guys just can't really use
>this precious piece of software.
>Webforums are not an alternative at all. They are so much more time
>intensive, extremely slow, you always have to login etc.....
>
>Matthias
>
>Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:39:16 -0700 schrieb/wrote Bruce Barrett:
>
>>Hi Matthias,
>>
>>I think if you re-read what he actually said you'll find it is
>>not the quality of the (mostly) polite, reasoned, informed,
>>helpful, understanding, compassionate messages that are being
>>exchanged that Mr. Weinmann is referring to that he was attaching
>>the potential "spam-like" label to. It's the quantity
>>and possibly the lack of organization of the messages.
>>
>>The quantity and "signal to noise ratio" is still high enough
>>for me to continue reading for the volume of email on the list.
>>BUT if the volume were 10 times the current level, even at
>>better quality, I'd unsubscribe. Too much to process, not
>>worth the effort. It's the volume that would be spam-like,
>>not the messages. :-)
>>
>>In a forum you can select the topics of interest to you
>>so you can avoid 100s of messages that are not of interest
>>with next to zero effort.
>>
>>That was his argument for forum over email.
>>
>>Obviously the 3 of us are willing, at this point, to use
>>the mail system, it's just that at least 2 of us would prefer
>>a forum. (Maybe we should switch to the archive to get closer
>>to what we want.)
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>--
>>Bruce Barrett See my website at: http://www.brucebarrett.com
>>
>>As Matthias Schmidt wrote...
>>
>>>Mr. Weinmann,
>>>
>>>calling this list a source of spam is a serious offense to all list
members.
>>>If you can't read the users manual nor search the archive, with all
>>>respect, go somewhere else.
>>>CTM never lacked support, but they won't answer you questions if you can
>>>find the answer in the users manual. That are not support cases that's a
>>>lack of reading ability.
>>>
>>>Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Am/On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:10:08 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>>>
>><snip>
>>>>The disadvantage of the mailing list is that everyone on the list has to
>>>>receive every email for every topic. This comes close to being spam-like
>>>>in its effect. The advantage, of course, is that it keeps a larger
>>>>community informed of questions than a forum might.
>>>>
>>>>However, the "spam" problem of the mailing list I am sure discourages
>>>>many people from signing up in the first place.
>><snip>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of powermail-discuss Digest
