RE: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Fletcher Johnson]

Hey all,

FWIW, while I think all this conspiracy stuff is just that, I do have to
point out that the US military has specific requirements which make no sense
to me.  One of them states that if a software (or many other) product is
specified in a contract, it cannot be changed for any reason without some
tedious process being followed.  

I have a client that is a major defense contractor and they occasionally
call me in to help with some of their apps that were written in VFP.  Not
only can they not move to a new app, they can't even have me re-write it in
something else even if the new app did the exact same thing with the exact
same interface.  

Even worse, when they found out that an in house developed tool was being
used by 2 different project teams, they required that a totally separate set
of source code be kept for each project team and changes made for one team
could NOT be applied to the other project teams source code.  And if the
other project team needed the same feature, it had to be written again using
that teams source code.

So yeah, I could actually see there being someone in the government
pressuring MS to not obsolete VFP.  But do I really think it happened?  It
sounds too intelligent for me to believe.

Fletcher


Fletcher Johnson
fletchersjohn...@yahoo.com
LinkedIn.com/in/FletcherJohnson
beknown.com/FletcherJohnson
twitter.com/fletcherJ
strava.com/athletes/fletcherjohnson
408-946-0960 - work
408-781-2345 - cell

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Man-wai Chang
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:48 AM
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:01 PM,
<mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote:
> On 2016-09-16 08:31, Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
> Actually I'd wager the US Govt--if anything--had a hand in keeping it 
> from behind totally taken off the table LONG ago.  You may recall that 
> several speculated that the govt had LOTS of Foxpro stuff and they 
> didn't want M$ to drop all support and/or do anything to prevent the 
> legacy stuff from working.  (DR-DOS anyone?)

You got an insider in US Government that is dealing with all Foxpro
projects? :)

--
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3) /( _ )\
http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:01 PM,
 wrote:
> On 2016-09-16 08:31, Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
> Actually I'd wager the US Govt--if anything--had a hand in keeping it from
> behind totally taken off the table LONG ago.  You may recall that several
> speculated that the govt had LOTS of Foxpro stuff and they didn't want M$ to
> drop all support and/or do anything to prevent the legacy stuff from
> working.  (DR-DOS anyone?)

You got an insider in US Government that is dealing with all Foxpro projects? :)

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ted Roche]

Nah, I'll take FreeDOS, thanks.

https://opensource.com/life/16/9/interview-jim-hall-freedos

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Alan Bourke  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2016, at 03:01 PM,
> mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:
>
>> (DR-DOS anyone?)
>
> What, DR-DOS where the pre-release version of Windows 3.1 wouldn't run
> on it (or any other non MS-DOS) but the check was disabled in the
> release version of Windows 3.1 ?
>
> --
>   Alan Bourke
>   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2016, at 03:01 PM,
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:

> (DR-DOS anyone?)

What, DR-DOS where the pre-release version of Windows 3.1 wouldn't run
on it (or any other non MS-DOS) but the check was disabled in the
release version of Windows 3.1 ?

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[mbsoftwaresolutions]

On 2016-09-16 08:31, Man-wai Chang wrote:

You talking about wars and peace-time conflicts? They never end. :)

Keeping VFP alive without adding new features is a simple task.
But Micro$oft and possibly US Government chose the Dark Side.



Actually I'd wager the US Govt--if anything--had a hand in keeping it 
from behind totally taken off the table LONG ago.  You may recall that 
several speculated that the govt had LOTS of Foxpro stuff and they 
didn't want M$ to drop all support and/or do anything to prevent the 
legacy stuff from working.  (DR-DOS anyone?)


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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

Wrong!! Did you lose your old combat skill? :)

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Dave Crozier  wrote:
> Old habits die hard  Mike!
>
> Dave

-- 
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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

You talking about wars and peace-time conflicts? They never end. :)

Keeping VFP alive without adding new features is a simple task.
But Micro$oft and possibly US Government chose the Dark Side.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 6:09 AM,
 wrote:
>
> Sometimes I see stuff like this and wonder if it's a post from 10+ years
> ago.

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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RE: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Dave Crozier]

Old habits die hard  Mike!

Dave

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of 
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
Sent: 15 September 2016 23:10
To: ProFox Email List <profox@leafe.com>
Subject: Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

On 2016-09-14 07:47, Man-wai Chang wrote:
> The simplest solution is still resurrecting Visual Foxpro. Micro$oft 
> has its source codes. Market shares of VFP has nothing to do with 
> maintaining an old but popular tool.
> 
> Of course, abandoning VFP could force everyone to buy new developments 
> from Micro$oft and hire new programmers.
> 
> Sometimes, I think the death of VFP was not just a normal product 
> cycle but a political if not military tool for affect other countries.
> Micro$oft and US Government clearly knew the consequences. :)
> 



Sometimes I see stuff like this and wonder if it's a post from 10+ years ago.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[mbsoftwaresolutions]

On 2016-09-14 07:47, Man-wai Chang wrote:

The simplest solution is still resurrecting Visual Foxpro. Micro$oft
has its source codes. Market shares of VFP has nothing to do with
maintaining an old but popular tool.

Of course, abandoning VFP could force everyone to buy new developments
from Micro$oft and hire new programmers.

Sometimes, I think the death of VFP was not just a normal product
cycle but a political if not military tool for affect other countries.
Micro$oft and US Government clearly knew the consequences. :)





Sometimes I see stuff like this and wonder if it's a post from 10+ years 
ago.


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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Stephen Russell  wrote:
> This is business not family.  Having developers expand their capabilities
> and leverage the web in the 2000s was the desire.  .NET was the vehicle by
> m$ vs java and php.
> Today it is all javascript, html5 and uber cool frameworks to get it done
> today.

POS systems don't usuaslly require web access, especially for small
shops. Standalone applicaiton still has its place in this time-space
continuum.

Anyway, we need a miracle... :)

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Stephen Russell]

Bingo.

When your truck has 250,000 miles on it you consider getting a replacement
and enjoying the new features instead of yanking the engine and rebuilding
it before it has an internal problem.

VFP did it's thing and it was a purchased entity not grown in house by M$.

This is business not family.  Having developers expand their capabilities
and leverage the web in the 2000s was the desire.  .NET was the vehicle by
m$ vs java and php.

Today it is all javascript, html5 and uber cool frameworks to get it done
today.


On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Alan Bourke 
wrote:

>
>
> > I think the death of VFP was not just a normal product
> > cycle but a political if not military tool for affect other countries.
> > Micro$oft and US Government clearly knew the consequences. :)
>
> I really think that's tinfoil hat territory. It didn't fit in with the
> .NET world and SQL Server and the general Microsoft roadmap at the time,
> so it got canned. No need to overthink it.
>
> --
>   Alan Bourke
>   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

> I think the death of VFP was not just a normal product
> cycle but a political if not military tool for affect other countries.
> Micro$oft and US Government clearly knew the consequences. :)

I really think that's tinfoil hat territory. It didn't fit in with the
.NET world and SQL Server and the general Microsoft roadmap at the time,
so it got canned. No need to overthink it.

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

The simplest solution is still resurrecting Visual Foxpro. Micro$oft
has its source codes. Market shares of VFP has nothing to do with
maintaining an old but popular tool.

Of course, abandoning VFP could force everyone to buy new developments
from Micro$oft and hire new programmers.

Sometimes, I think the death of VFP was not just a normal product
cycle but a political if not military tool for affect other countries.
Micro$oft and US Government clearly knew the consequences. :)

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Thierry Nivelet
 wrote:
> Work and creativity usually do more than miracles... Chen has released a 
> 64-bit VFP compiler (http://www.baiyujia.com/vfpcompiler/), and many other 
> 3rd party softwares dramatically extend VFP's scope compared to what it was  
> 10 years ago.

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[mbsoftwaresolutions]

On 2016-09-13 09:49, Ted Roche wrote:
On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Stephen Russell 
 wrote:


I don't think that the core of the OS is today what was around when 
they

were making VFP.


Nonsense. No matter how much lipstick they slap on the pig, this is
still Windows NT at its core.


There is a 2 gig limit for a reason and that is no longer
a property of the filesystem.


Of course not. That was a VFP choice to limit file offsets to a single
32-bit int.




...which I might add that using vfp2c32.fll (on VFPX), you can get past 
the 2GB barrier (in terms of reading text files anyway).  
https://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=VFP2C32=Home


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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ed Leafe]

On Sep 13, 2016, at 12:36 AM, Thierry Nivelet  wrote:

> Work and creativity usually do more than miracles... 

+1000

The common response in the open source world when someone complains that their 
project doesn’t do Feature Foo, is “patches welcome!”. That’s a snarky way of 
saying “if you want something done, start contributing and others will join in”.

As one of the primary developers of Dabo, I’m not going to invest hundreds of 
hours of my time to add a complex feature I personally don’t need if the people 
who want it so badly aren’t willing to pitch in and help.


-- Ed Leafe






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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ted Roche]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Stephen Russell  wrote:
>
> I don't think that the core of the OS is today what was around when they
> were making VFP.

Nonsense. No matter how much lipstick they slap on the pig, this is
still Windows NT at its core.

> There is a 2 gig limit for a reason and that is no longer
> a property of the filesystem.

Of course not. That was a VFP choice to limit file offsets to a single
32-bit int.

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Stephen Russell]

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Man-wai Chang  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Ed Leafe  wrote:
> >>
> >> When I said "resurrecting Visual Foxpro", I was referring the one and
> >> only Visual Foxpro owned by Micro$oft. :)
> >
> > The final step in grieving over death is to accept it and move on.
> Resurrection is the stuff of myths, not reality.
>
> That's why I am still wishing for a miracle! ;)
>
> If Micro$oft hadn't lost the source codes of Visual Foxpro, It should
> always be easy and possible to resurrect it!
>
> --


I don't think that the core of the OS is today what was around when they
were making VFP.  There is a 2 gig limit for a reason and that is no longer
a property of the filesystem.



-- 
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, at 03:40 PM, Ted Roche wrote:

> 
> So, perhaps a console ("command line") interface for quick-and-easy
> scripting, an ability to use a variety of desktop widget packages,
> like wxWidgets, GTK, etc., the ability to plug into popular web
> servers like Apache and nginx, and ports to new up-and-coming hardware
> platforms like IOS and Android and Raspberry Pi? Compatibility with
> common OS platforms of Linux, OSX and Windows, of course,...
> 

This is what I wish the Lianja guys would do. They have a proven engine
there (Recital as was) which is 64-bit, proven, cross-platform,
database-agnostic and supports most of the non-legacy Visual FoxPro
syntax that isn't concerned with UI, and then adds a lot of new commands
into the bargain. However it's tied into their IDE and application
framework and licencing model. 

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Thierry Nivelet]

Work and creativity usually do more than miracles... Chen has released a 64-bit 
VFP compiler (http://www.baiyujia.com/vfpcompiler/), and many other 3rd party 
softwares dramatically extend VFP's scope compared to what it was  10 years 
ago. 

Thierry Nivelet
http://foxincloud.com/
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud

> Le 13 sept. 2016 à 04:57, Man-wai Chang  a écrit :
> 
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Ed Leafe  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When I said "resurrecting Visual Foxpro", I was referring the one and
>>> only Visual Foxpro owned by Micro$oft. :)
>> 
>> The final step in grieving over death is to accept it and move on. 
>> Resurrection is the stuff of myths, not reality.
> 
> That's why I am still wishing for a miracle! ;)
> 
> If Micro$oft hadn't lost the source codes of Visual Foxpro, It should
> always be easy and possible to resurrect it!
> 
>> There was never a 100% conversion tool for moving from Fox 2.x to VFP, but 
>> people made that move anyway. Anyone who tried to do conversions quickly 
>> realized that the converted apps sucked, and were impossible to maintain. It 
>> was much smarter to realize that VFP was a new tool that did things 
>> differently, and that only by coding your app to match the tool would you 
>> ever get the results that VFP offered.
>> 
>> Sure, we did, and after a couple of quick attempts, decided that it wasn’t 
>> worth it. We have a visual report writer, a visual class designer, and lots 
>> more. The thing is, we started this in 2004, and very few people made the 
>> move. So when I Paul and I took jobs that didn’t use Dabo (but paid the 
>> bills), it got put in a holding pattern. There hasn’t been much new 
>> development in Dabo for the last 5 years or so.
>> 
>> Unlike VFP, though, the source code is 100% freely available at 
>> https://github.com/dabodev. And I mean free in both senses: no cost, and you 
>> are free to modify it to your heart’s content. You could even write a VFP 
>> conversion tool!
> 
> If Dabo could break the ice a 100% converter meow! Maybe this
> dream needs another miracle
> 
> -- 
> .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
> / v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
> /( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
> ^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!
> 
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Ed Leafe  wrote:
>>
>> When I said "resurrecting Visual Foxpro", I was referring the one and
>> only Visual Foxpro owned by Micro$oft. :)
>
> The final step in grieving over death is to accept it and move on. 
> Resurrection is the stuff of myths, not reality.

That's why I am still wishing for a miracle! ;)

If Micro$oft hadn't lost the source codes of Visual Foxpro, It should
always be easy and possible to resurrect it!

> There was never a 100% conversion tool for moving from Fox 2.x to VFP, but 
> people made that move anyway. Anyone who tried to do conversions quickly 
> realized that the converted apps sucked, and were impossible to maintain. It 
> was much smarter to realize that VFP was a new tool that did things 
> differently, and that only by coding your app to match the tool would you 
> ever get the results that VFP offered.
>
> Sure, we did, and after a couple of quick attempts, decided that it wasn’t 
> worth it. We have a visual report writer, a visual class designer, and lots 
> more. The thing is, we started this in 2004, and very few people made the 
> move. So when I Paul and I took jobs that didn’t use Dabo (but paid the 
> bills), it got put in a holding pattern. There hasn’t been much new 
> development in Dabo for the last 5 years or so.
>
> Unlike VFP, though, the source code is 100% freely available at 
> https://github.com/dabodev. And I mean free in both senses: no cost, and you 
> are free to modify it to your heart’s content. You could even write a VFP 
> conversion tool!

If Dabo could break the ice a 100% converter meow! Maybe this
dream needs another miracle

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ed Leafe]

On Sep 12, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Man-wai Chang  wrote:

>> Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which does 
>> pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a future 
>> path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but other 
>> than that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a DBF 
>> backend, if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for over 
>> a decade.
> 
> Dabo is NOT resurrecting Visual Foxpro. It's building something
> similar to replace it. Dabo is competing with Visual C#, Visual
> Basic.Net and alike. Then Dabo must prove itself to be a real VFP
> replacement in *ALL* aspects.

Seriously? And do you want that on a silver platter?

> When I said "resurrecting Visual Foxpro", I was referring the one and
> only Visual Foxpro owned by Micro$oft. :)

The final step in grieving over death is to accept it and move on. Resurrection 
is the stuff of myths, not reality.

>> Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure, you 
>> couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't 
>> have that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to 
>> invest in a product with no future from its owner than to invest in a 
>> product with a future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have been 
>> flooded as sea levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep 
>> propping themselves above the waterline and praying for a miracle.
> 
> If Dabo offered a tool to convert Visual Foxpro projects  there
> was never a 100% conversion tool that really does it.

There was never a 100% conversion tool for moving from Fox 2.x to VFP, but 
people made that move anyway. Anyone who tried to do conversions quickly 
realized that the converted apps sucked, and were impossible to maintain. It 
was much smarter to realize that VFP was a new tool that did things 
differently, and that only by coding your app to match the tool would you ever 
get the results that VFP offered.

> BTW, have your team ever considered to write a conversion tool that
> translates *ALL* VFP codes into Python, including its Report Writer?

Sure, we did, and after a couple of quick attempts, decided that it wasn’t 
worth it. We have a visual report writer, a visual class designer, and lots 
more. The thing is, we started this in 2004, and very few people made the move. 
So when I Paul and I took jobs that didn’t use Dabo (but paid the bills), it 
got put in a holding pattern. There hasn’t been much new development in Dabo 
for the last 5 years or so.

Unlike VFP, though, the source code is 100% freely available at 
https://github.com/dabodev. And I mean free in both senses: no cost, and you 
are free to modify it to your heart’s content. You could even write a VFP 
conversion tool!

-- Ed Leafe






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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ted Roche]

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Alan Bourke  wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, at 02:26 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
>> Why would you want to be limited to another desktop form based UI is my
>> only question.
>
> That's the thing. If you were starting 'Visual FoxPro' today you would
> have to end up something designed to operate with various types of
> presentation layer, and any type of database through a data layer.
>

So, perhaps a console ("command line") interface for quick-and-easy
scripting, an ability to use a variety of desktop widget packages,
like wxWidgets, GTK, etc., the ability to plug into popular web
servers like Apache and nginx, and ports to new up-and-coming hardware
platforms like IOS and Android and Raspberry Pi? Compatibility with
common OS platforms of Linux, OSX and Windows, of course,...

Python sounds like a good choice. Or JavaScript, Perl, Erlang, Ruby,
Haskell, or PHP.

It's hard to imagine there's a market niche left untapped.

Though I still think the form- and report-designer UI tied into the
project generation of VFP was pretty compelling. And the re-entrant
app generation of our 3rd-party frameworks like  FoxExpress for
round-tripping is a high bar that's rarely reached.

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, at 02:26 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
> Why would you want to be limited to another desktop form based UI is my
> only question.

That's the thing. If you were starting 'Visual FoxPro' today you would
have to end up something designed to operate with various types of
presentation layer, and any type of database through a data layer. 

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Stephen Russell]

Why would you want to be limited to another desktop form based UI is my
only question.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Alan Bourke 
wrote:

> > BTW, have your team ever considered to write a conversion tool that
> > translates *ALL* VFP codes into Python, including its Report Writer?
> >
>
> Kind of a big ask.
>
> --
>   Alan Bourke
>   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

> BTW, have your team ever considered to write a conversion tool that
> translates *ALL* VFP codes into Python, including its Report Writer?
> 

Kind of a big ask. 

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 12:46 AM, Edward Leafe  wrote:
> Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which does 
> pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a future 
> path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but other than 
> that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a DBF backend, 
> if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for over a decade.

Dabo is NOT resurrecting Visual Foxpro. It's building something
similar to replace it. Dabo is competing with Visual C#, Visual
Basic.Net and alike. Then Dabo must prove itself to be a real VFP
replacement in *ALL* aspects.

When I said "resurrecting Visual Foxpro", I was referring the one and
only Visual Foxpro owned by Micro$oft. :)

> Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure, you 
> couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't 
> have that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to 
> invest in a product with no future from its owner than to invest in a product 
> with a future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have been flooded 
> as sea levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep propping 
> themselves above the waterline and praying for a miracle.

If Dabo offered a tool to convert Visual Foxpro projects  there
was never a 100% conversion tool that really does it.

BTW, have your team ever considered to write a conversion tool that
translates *ALL* VFP codes into Python, including its Report Writer?

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016, at 02:12 AM, Laurie Alvey wrote:
> haven't looked at Dabo, but doesn't Python mean web based apps? Can it do
> desktop?
> 
> Laurie

Yes, Python, like Ruby, is fairly synonymous with web applications.
However that was one of the goals of Dabo - to create a desktop
application framework using Python.

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ken McGinnis]

Ted,

That is interesting. I can see where Dabo would be able to replace VFP. 
For many years I have used some DBI ocx controls for scheduling, and a 
few other functions. I like the way that DBI works and I was not able to 
make VFP code that would do the same things as nicely as DBI does it. Is 
there something like that for python? Maybe the DBI controls would work 
with python?



On 9/11/2016 7:56 AM, Ted Roche wrote:

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Laurie Alvey  wrote:

haven't looked at Dabo, but doesn't Python mean web based apps? Can it do
desktop?


Take two minutes to skim http://www.dabodev.com/


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ted Roche]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Laurie Alvey  wrote:
> haven't looked at Dabo, but doesn't Python mean web based apps? Can it do
> desktop?
>

Take two minutes to skim http://www.dabodev.com/

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Mike]

There's a python desktop package for windows.Mike


Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7 edge.
 Original message From: Laurie Alvey <trukke...@gmail.com> 
Date: 9/10/16  8:12 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: M$ 
giving more support to dbf? 
haven't looked at Dabo, but doesn't Python mean web based apps? Can it do
desktop?

Laurie

On 10 September 2016 at 22:45, Darren <fox...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> V1.02 was first for me. Been with it ever since.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ken
> McGinnis
> Sent: Sunday, 11 September 2016 6:08 AM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?
>
> True, but change is painful or at least it seems like it would be painful.
>
> I, like some others on this list started with Fox back in the 1980's and
> like some others on this list, I hope god will deliver a miracle and save
> us. I haven't prayed yet. Maybe that would help?
>
> Note that VFP9 SP2 works great with Win10, even with only 2gb memory - even
> better than on Win7,8,8.1.
>
>
> On 9/10/2016 8:46 AM, Edward Leafe wrote:
> > On Sep 10, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Man-wai Chang <chan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)
> > Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which
> does pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a
> future path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but
> other than that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a
> DBF backend, if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for
> over a decade.
> >
> > Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure,
> you
> couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't
> have that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to
> invest in a product with no future from its owner than to invest in a
> product with a future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have
> been
> flooded as sea levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep
> propping themselves above the waterline and praying for a miracle.
> >
> > -- Ed Leafe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> > multipart/signed
> >    text/plain (text body -- kept)
> >    application/pgp-signature
> > ---
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Laurie Alvey]

haven't looked at Dabo, but doesn't Python mean web based apps? Can it do
desktop?

Laurie

On 10 September 2016 at 22:45, Darren <fox...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> V1.02 was first for me. Been with it ever since.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ken
> McGinnis
> Sent: Sunday, 11 September 2016 6:08 AM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?
>
> True, but change is painful or at least it seems like it would be painful.
>
> I, like some others on this list started with Fox back in the 1980's and
> like some others on this list, I hope god will deliver a miracle and save
> us. I haven't prayed yet. Maybe that would help?
>
> Note that VFP9 SP2 works great with Win10, even with only 2gb memory - even
> better than on Win7,8,8.1.
>
>
> On 9/10/2016 8:46 AM, Edward Leafe wrote:
> > On Sep 10, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Man-wai Chang <chan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)
> > Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which
> does pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a
> future path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but
> other than that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a
> DBF backend, if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for
> over a decade.
> >
> > Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure,
> you
> couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't
> have that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to
> invest in a product with no future from its owner than to invest in a
> product with a future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have
> been
> flooded as sea levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep
> propping themselves above the waterline and praying for a miracle.
> >
> > -- Ed Leafe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> > multipart/signed
> >text/plain (text body -- kept)
> >application/pgp-signature
> > ---
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Darren]

V1.02 was first for me. Been with it ever since.

-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ken
McGinnis
Sent: Sunday, 11 September 2016 6:08 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

True, but change is painful or at least it seems like it would be painful.

I, like some others on this list started with Fox back in the 1980's and
like some others on this list, I hope god will deliver a miracle and save
us. I haven't prayed yet. Maybe that would help?

Note that VFP9 SP2 works great with Win10, even with only 2gb memory - even
better than on Win7,8,8.1.


On 9/10/2016 8:46 AM, Edward Leafe wrote:
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Man-wai Chang <chan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)
> Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which
does pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a
future path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but
other than that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a
DBF backend, if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for
over a decade.
>
> Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure, you
couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't
have that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to
invest in a product with no future from its owner than to invest in a
product with a future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have been
flooded as sea levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep
propping themselves above the waterline and praying for a miracle.
>
> -- Ed Leafe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/signed
>text/plain (text body -- kept)
>application/pgp-signature
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Ken McGinnis]

True, but change is painful or at least it seems like it would be painful.

I, like some others on this list started with Fox back in the 1980's and 
like some others on this list, I hope god will deliver a miracle and 
save us. I haven't prayed yet. Maybe that would help?


Note that VFP9 SP2 works great with Win10, even with only 2gb memory - 
even better than on Win7,8,8.1.



On 9/10/2016 8:46 AM, Edward Leafe wrote:

On Sep 10, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Man-wai Chang  wrote:


Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)

Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which does 
pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a future 
path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but other than 
that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a DBF backend, 
if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for over a decade.

Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure, you 
couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't have 
that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to invest in a 
product with no future from its owner than to invest in a product with a 
future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have been flooded as sea 
levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep propping themselves 
above the waterline and praying for a miracle.

-- Ed Leafe







--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/signed
   text/plain (text body -- kept)
   application/pgp-signature
---


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Edward Leafe]

On Sep 10, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Man-wai Chang  wrote:

> Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)

Well, Paul McNett and I *tried* to do that when we created Dabo, which does 
pretty much everything that VFP does, but with an open license and a future 
path forward. It did require learning Python instead of Xbase, but other than 
that, it had data binding, support for multiple backends (even a DBF backend, 
if someone had maintained it). It's been production-ready for over a decade.

Very few people were willing to make the effort to move to Dabo. Sure, you 
couldn't directly port a VFP app to Dabo, but new development work doesn't have 
that problem. It really seems that people are much more willing to invest in a 
product with no future from its owner than to invest in a product with a 
future. It's like people who lived on the coast who have been flooded as sea 
levels rose: instead of moving to higher ground, they keep propping themselves 
above the waterline and praying for a miracle.

-- Ed Leafe







--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/signed
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  application/pgp-signature
---

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Man-wai Chang]

Resurrect Visual Foxpro, please! Make it 64-bit at least! :)

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 11:16 PM, Stephen Russell  wrote:
> Drivers for Access to use should help you with your foxpro files I am
> guessing.

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

You can already do that in Excel through the VFP OLE DB driver.

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

On Thu, 8 Sep 2016, at 05:19 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
> I thought it gave you the hooks to work from Excel to pull in dbf data. 
> Or
> to call the standard dbo engine from any app and consume other M$ data.
> It was never intended as a VFP replacement, just an opener to data that
> is
> in dbf format.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Alan Bourke 
> wrote:
> 
> > dBase IV format. Useful for people without VFP to open them, and for
> > Access users to connect and pull in data.
> >
> > --
> >   Alan Bourke
> >   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Stephen Russell]

I thought it gave you the hooks to work from Excel to pull in dbf data.  Or
to call the standard dbo engine from any app and consume other M$ data.
It was never intended as a VFP replacement, just an opener to data that is
in dbf format.


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Alan Bourke 
wrote:

> dBase IV format. Useful for people without VFP to open them, and for
> Access users to connect and pull in data.
>
> --
>   Alan Bourke
>   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: M$ giving more support to dbf?

[Alan Bourke]

dBase IV format. Useful for people without VFP to open them, and for
Access users to connect and pull in data. 

-- 
  Alan Bourke
  alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm

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