Our group has used Protel for years. I've tried to get everyone to change
to something else for most of that time but the resistance has been fairly
great. It seems that the the philosophy has been that pain you know is
preferable to the pain you don't know. However, with the introduction of
Ray
The choice is simple you need to purchase Mentor Expedition , appox cost 36K.
Simply the best
Mike Reagan
EDSI
-- Original Message --
From: Ray Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004
Ray,
I made the mistake that you are considering before. The group I was with in
Temecula bought Pads on my misguided recommendation... I was taken in by the
demo. The guys made it look so easy, then when I got the software and
realized they sold me a package that was stripped down compared to
2nd Best... would be Cadence. The features are similar but the user
interface is 10 years behind. Similar cost, similar time to get up and
running... similar maintenance...similar modularity.
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
- Original Message -
From: Ray Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
Our group has used Protel for years. I've tried to get everyone to change
to something else for
Hi Leon;
Is the phone support good at Pulsonix?
tr :)
-Original Message-
From: Leon Heller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:53 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
- Original Message -
From:
- Original Message -
From: Tom Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
Hi Leon;
Is the phone support good at Pulsonix?
Very good. Someone is
How about phone support in the USA?
tr :)
-Original Message-
From: Leon Heller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:07 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
- Original Message -
From: Tom Robinson
I was reading about fiducials in J-STD-013. Are they necessary or just
something that may come in handy? Might a board assembler tell you he
can't pick and place if you don't have them? My board has 4.9mil traces
and spaces and many of my components are 10mils apart.
Ray Mitchell
Engineer,
- Original Message -
From: Tom Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
How about phone support in the USA?
The US distributor is LPKF. I don't know
Mike,
You left out the surprise that Dimensioning is also an OPTION, yes it is
designed for and by marketing/sales guys, must be a dream for some of them,
lest we forget the maintenance fee is also relative to number of options
Joe
- Original Message -
From: edsi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Ray,
Fiducials are highly recommended for surface mount component placement. I
think some assembly machines can deal without them by picking an unused pad
nearby but its much harder and more error prone without them. You should try
to use them.
Also you can add global fiducials on the
Ray,
I work for a contract manufacturer specializing in small - medium production
volumes. Fiducials are more than just handy! The Pick Place equipment uses
fiducials to identify board location and fine pitch part location.
If they're not present we have to jump through hoops to get parts
I'm sure they were former auto salesmen ... 'oh, you want brakes with it...
well that's the diamond option, and a steering wheel? Well you need the
platinum option...' etc... etc..
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
-Original
Bill you have the idea, just bear in mind they sell new product but act like
USED car salesmen
Yesterday I sat thru the demo of OADS 5.02 and their new Schematic package
PADS Design, you'de be amazed how many new features loked to my mind to be
stolen/copied directly from Protel 99SE
-
09/04/2004 20:28:38, Ray Mitchell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are they (fiducials) necessary or just something that may come
in handy?
talk to your assembly shop. They'll be exceedingly happy to help.
I'm asked for several different shapes / sizes of fiducial,
depending on where the boards are
That's good enough for me. I'll use them. My understanding is that in
general:
1. They should be 1mm in diameter and have a clearance of at least 1mm
around them.
2. They should go as close to each part as possible but need not have any
specific or consistent distance from the parts.
3. They
This is pretty damning commentary. And maybe a bit 'rash'...
It does make me think hard about Mentor and the cost/vs. productivity
issues.
If, I say,* IF * Altium is shifting its focus to the embedded systems market
as a way of garnering revenue... it may mean that they have come to the
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:19:34 -0700, Brooks,Bill wrote:
Those big vendors like Cadence and Mentor will all adopt the old business
model because the only players will be big companies... no competition,
maybe Protel can't compete. Or maybe we just don't see the whole picture...
Lots of 'maybes'
09/04/2004 21:18:40, Ray Mitchell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
5. Different assembly shops have differing needs/preferences.
Also, the needs may vay, depending on what machine they're
doing the run on. If you're pushing a low-tech board their way,
they may be using the crapotron-3000 from 198x
So I assume they use it as a budle for their PCB milling machines?
-Original Message-
From: Leon Heller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:34 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite
recommendation?
-
Hello,
In my design rules I've specified that all routing vias are to be 20mil
diameter with a 10mil hole. However, the router makes them all 20mil
diameter with a 28mil hole. Nice feature! I know it hasn't always done
this - only sometimes. I only have one design rule for routing via
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
So I assume they use it as a budle for their PCB milling machines?
Yes, Pulsonix has a file output facility
Bill, I think your opinion about Mentor is spot on.
Sorry long rant ahead
A few years back, I took a job managing the layout department (among
other things) for a company that had been using PADs for several years.
One of my jobs was to pick new CAD software because they were very tired
the spectraa router?
as far as i know it always comes back w/ 28 holes
pretty easy to fix if you don't forget, but somewhat bush league
the 99SE router only uses the board via and i haven't seen it trash the
hole size
there are 3 candidates for sizes for a given type have you checked all 3
size
ditto this snip below for us
and we haven't gotten 2004 yet either
although we did the access code in the mail
and that was over a week ago
I went back to Protel and made the transition from 99SE to DXP. I don't
know why they didn't just fix 99SE instead of basically starting over.
Trying to
How about the other Altium package, PCAD?
I'm amazed that Altium markets both when I can't find a straight up
comparison between them.
John Strupat
JST Limited
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At 01:50 PM 4/9/2004, Leon Heller wrote:
Have a look at Pulsonix: http://www.pulsonix.com
It was developed from scratch by a group of people who used to work for
Zuken-Redac, support is excellent. Unlike Altium, they fix bugs immediately
they come to light.
There are a number of small companies
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