Re: [PEDA] Off topic / Need formula to calculate F in Mhz Wave length.

2001-07-11 Thread Ian Wilson
At 04:11 PM 11/07/01 +1000, you wrote: This is fine for free space, but if you're trying to calculate the wavelength in something like coax you have to take into account the change in velocity: Wave Lenght (in meters) = (VF.c)/f Where VF = velocity factor (about 0.6 for RG59) VF is 1/Sqrt(Er)

[PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Steve Wiseman
Hi, all. Using SE99, SP6, I've got what looks like a bug... I'm annotating a single sheet, which will become part of a bigger project, and I'm annotating using the suffix 'A' to indicate the parts are in the ADSL section. All is well - on first annotation, everything gets R1A, C19A, whatever

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Ian Wilson
On 12:28 PM 11/07/2001 +0100, Steve Wiseman said: Hi, all. Using SE99, SP6, I've got what looks like a bug... I'm annotating a single sheet, which will become part of a bigger project, and I'm annotating using the suffix 'A' to indicate the parts are in the ADSL section. All is well - on first

Re: [PEDA] 80 Mil Thick PCB

2001-07-11 Thread Jeff Adolphs
Thank You! Your info will help me figure this out. Jeff Adolphs -Original Message- From: John Haddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 7:20 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] 80 Mil Thick PCB From my fabricator's standard build list (which I never use

[PEDA] PCB process engineers - PCB quoting

2001-07-11 Thread Jeff Adolphs
Hello, How many of you out there talk with the PCB manufacturers Process Engineer to see how they will do the PCB Layer Stackup? A IPC lecturer recomends I always talk to the Process Engineer and should be doing extensive documentation on my PCB Fab Drawing. I always only talk with the Sales

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread HxEngr

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Steve Wiseman
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I go for the manual approach suggested by others. Hmm.. Major parts of a design have their own independent ref des series - 100s are power supply section, 200s are CPU, 700s are analog, etc. Within these, major subsections get

Re: [PEDA] PCB process engineers - PCB quoting

2001-07-11 Thread David W. Gulley
Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hello, How many of you out there talk with the PCB manufacturers Process Engineer to see how they will do the PCB Layer Stackup? A IPC lecturer recomends I always talk to the Process Engineer and should be doing extensive documentation on my PCB Fab Drawing. I

Re: [PEDA] perimeter stitched ground vias question

2001-07-11 Thread Mark E Witherite

Re: [PEDA] Board Supplier

2001-07-11 Thread Emanuel Zimmermann
Joe, Have a look at http://www.ppc-electronic.ch/ They used to do very big controlled impedance backplanes. Don't know if this still is true. Good luck, Emanuel Joe Morris wrote: Hi All, I have a requirement for a very long board ( 1m) but am having difficulty finding anyone capable

Re: [PEDA] FYI Protel's response to my printing problem

2001-07-11 Thread Brooks,Bill
Hi Mark, Before anyone can trouble shoot a problem like this you need to give them the variables... answer these questions and you may get a more useful response from the tech support people... What operating system are you using? What are the stats on your machine? What kind of printer are

Re: [PEDA] Off topic / Need formula to calculate F in Mhz Wave length.

2001-07-11 Thread Brian Guralnick
Thanks all, now I can really p-off the FCC. hehe :) _ Brian Guralnick * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html *

Re: [PEDA] FYI Protel's response to my printing problem

2001-07-11 Thread Tony Karavidas
Here's one for that support person: I recommend you find another way to get a paycheck. Ok, sillyness aside, that was a stupid answer on their part. They could have said can you temporarily try another printer to see if the problem goes away? Obviously Protel cannot control the content or

Re: [PEDA] Silver Immersion Finish

2001-07-11 Thread Brad Velander
Colin, just to clarify after your last post, Omikron (Organic White Tin) is not a standard OSP as you seem to indicate. It is a tin plating process which uses an organic OSP of some sort in the plating as well. It is a direct competitive system to the silver immersion processes. You can

Re: [PEDA] Board Supplier

2001-07-11 Thread Brad Velander
Joe, this size shouldn't be a problem for a lot of large volume shops. I can see proto shops not handling panels that large but volume shops should be handling panels up to 44 (1110mm) in double or single sided laminate. If you are talking about a multilayer design then I can understand

Re: [PEDA] Off topic / Need formula to calculate F in Mhz Wave length.

2001-07-11 Thread Jon Elson
Brian Guralnick wrote: Hi all, Little off topic, I figured I might get a quick response here. I need the formula to determine the Wave Length in Meters with regard to a specified frequency in MHz. Is that the wave length in free space, or on a PC board? In free space, it is L = C /

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Gordon Price
Dear Brent, This is really a stupid idea, as I have mentioned before. We are interested in getting Protel 99 SE to work in a stable way, not how you can broaden your market. Please do not put AutoRFQ in any products or we will drop PROTEL!! There are NDA issues and extreme product

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Dennis Saputelli
I will second Gordon Price's comments and feeling about this topic Dennis Saputelli Gordon Price wrote: Dear Brent, This is really a stupid idea, as I have mentioned before. We are interested in getting Protel 99 SE to work in a stable way, not how you can broaden your market.

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
All ranting aside, has anyone (any real PCB designers, that is) actually used the AutoRFQ thingy yet? I would be interested to know how effective it is at getting competitive quotes from REPUTABLE PCB shops. With regard to the NDA stuff, the marketing fluff says it extracts the minimum

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Brad Velander
Phil, this is just a prime example of everybody jumping on the internet bandwagon with little or no research. What happens when the pcbmarket.com (or whatever their name is) goes belly up next year because their business model didn't take into account the comments of users like us. Then

Re: [PEDA] FYI Protel's response to my printing problem

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:18 AM 7/11/01 -0700, Tony Karavidas wrote: Here's one for that support person: I recommend you find another way to get a paycheck. Ok, sillyness aside, that was a stupid answer on their part. They could have said can you temporarily try another printer to see if the problem goes away?

Re: [PEDA] Board Supplier

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 02:31 PM 7/11/01 +, Joe Morris wrote: I have a requirement for a very long board ( 1m) but am having difficulty finding anyone capable of producing this size of board. It would seem that 600mm is the normal max. If anyone in the group knows of any specialist PCB houses that could help me

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:43 PM 7/11/01 +1000, Ian Wilson wrote: Does sound like a bug - I will await other comments before adding it to the bug database. I suppose someone will try to call it a feature... It's not a bug, in my opinion, but neither is it a feature. The lack of a facility is almost never a

Re: [PEDA] perimeter stitched ground vias question

2001-07-11 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
At the 1999 PCB east conference I learned about the 20H rule. This rule simply put states that EMI can be substantially reduced by keeping the power planes back from the edge of the ground planes by 20 time the dielectric thickness between the two planes. This would be a lot easier to

Re: [PEDA] perimeter stitched ground vias question

2001-07-11 Thread Jon Elson
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 10:09 AM 7/11/01 -0500, Mark E Witherite wrote: At the 1999 PCB east conference I learned about the 20H rule. This rule simply put states that EMI can be substantially reduced by keeping the power planes back from the edge of the ground planes by 20 time the

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 04:28 PM 7/11/01 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: All ranting aside, has anyone (any real PCB designers, that is) actually used the AutoRFQ thingy yet? I would be interested to know how effective it is at getting competitive quotes from REPUTABLE PCB shops. With regard to the NDA stuff,

Re: [PEDA] perimeter stitched ground vias question

2001-07-11 Thread Brad Velander
I did recently see an article on this exact question. It was thoroughly tested using field solvers and the field solvers confirmed the reduction of radiation from traces designed to the 20H rule. Sorry can't look for the article right now and have no recollection of exactly where it was,

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Ian Wilson
At 12:25 PM 11/07/01 -0600, you wrote: Dear Brent, This is really a stupid idea, as I have mentioned before. We are interested in getting Protel 99 SE to work in a stable way, not how you can broaden your market. Please do not put AutoRFQ in any products or we will drop PROTEL!! There

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Ian Wilson
At 02:35 PM 11/07/01 -0700, you wrote: At 09:43 PM 7/11/01 +1000, Ian Wilson wrote: Does sound like a bug - I will await other comments before adding it to the bug database. I suppose someone will try to call it a feature... It's not a bug, in my opinion, but neither is it a feature. The lack

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 08:57 AM 7/12/01 +1200, Phil So wrote: Brad Good point. How much control does Protel have over pcbmarketplace.com? If it is as little as the control we have over Protel (or any other non-captive supplier) and it's direction, then I would be very hesitant to rely on the

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Phil So
Buried within Abd ul-Rahman's message Except for the perception that Protel is wasting resources on this. Protel, however, for better or for worse, has a history of providing us with things that we don't want and we must admit that sometimes, at least, they have been right and we

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Brooks,Bill
Regarding 'how we felt about access database' Some of us STILL feel that way... and are VERY frustrated to have to deal with this.. uh.. feature even after all this time. I wish (with all my might) that they would remove the complexity and 'mismanagement' of my files... and return to a

Re: [PEDA] (re)Annotation weirdness when using suffix

2001-07-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:21 AM 7/12/01 +1000, Ian Wilson wrote: {I wrote:] It's not a bug, in my opinion, but neither is it a feature. The lack of a facility is almost never a feature. Perhaps I missed something, but if I did not: Your right - you did miss something. Look at the advanced options for Sch

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Ian Wilson
Abdulrahman, you wrote: ..snip.. If the program does *not* function as a server and contains no code that would allow it to do so (i.e., it has been reviewed to ensure that it is not a trojan horse -- even a reputable company could supply such without knowing it), and it only sends

Re: [PEDA] New on-line PCB quoting service for Protel 99 SE

2001-07-11 Thread Dennis Saputelli
I think that something is missing in this methodology of seeking board quotes. First of all it will spin a lot of people's wheels who will never get an order. Secondly a fabricator is someone with whom (ideally) you would like to build a long term business relationship. You get to know and