Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Reply1 MS versus Linux
I can back that statement, Abd ul-Rahman. Last week I received a mail directed only to me from Protel support concerning the setup of the router. I had not turned to them directly; they had been reading my postings on this thread. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH Abd ul-RahmanAn: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lomax Kopie: marjan@noho.Thema: Re: [PEDA] Reply1 MS versus Linux com 23.11.2001 21:49 Bitte antworten an Protel EDA Forum At 10:24 AM 11/23/01 -0500, Fred A Rupinski wrote: Has anyone seen Protel reply directly to this forum? Yes, on 11/20/01, from Samual Sattel, regarding Protel usage I did not find that post in my archive. I suspect that Mr. Sattel may have written directly to Mr. Rupinski in response to a Rupinski post on this list. That is not uncommon. Protel, I was informed perhaps two years ago, has a policy that employees do not post to this list except for Protelcsc, Protel Customer Service Center, which occasionally pops in when they can easily clear up some mystery that we have not handled for ourselves within a reasonable time. Exceptions are quite rare. We are pretty sure that very many employees do read this list, though perhaps fewer than was the case at one time, and perhaps once in a while an employee gets carried away and responds directly. I have been asked by an employee on occasion to convey some information to the list, a way around the restriction. At one time Protel and the users had a fairly serious adversarial stance toward each other; I think that the rule originated at that time. It was far too easy for flame wars to start. There would be other reasons as well; it can take a lot of time to write thoughtfully and it is perhaps not the best usage of employee time. I know that Mr. Foley of Accel wrote on the Accel user support list with a serious anti-time-wasting message directed at the users as well as, perhaps, at employees. But we know what happened to him, I don't think he is in the CAD business any more. I can say that there were many Accel customers who, while they were insecure about the future of the product when Protel took over, nevertheless were not sorry to see Mr. Foley go. Obviously, it is up to the users and their companies what is a waste and what is not. However, I *would* recommend a certain level of participation by certain kinds of Protel employee. Imagine how we would feel if a development engineer were actively asking us questions and reflecting on the answers. Relations have improved to the point that serious rudeness from a few users would be pretty strongly damped by the user community. Rules for employee participation could be developed, such as, for example, that employees would not respond to flames, that employees would need to be authorized by Protel to participate here, and limits might be placed on what the employees could reveal. I do think, however, that the value of secrecy is vastly overblown. Some matters properly remain secret, but secrecy clearly hampers communication (well, duh!), and good communication between the developers and users could greatly increase the pace of program improvement. On the other hand, there are also other ways that communication could be improved. A user panel is one possibility that has been mentioned; these users would be under NDA so the secrecy issues would not be such a problem; but they would be allowed to let the user community know that they were in communication with Protel and could serve as a conduit for surveys, etc.
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
[PEDA] FYI: Protel Crashes resulted from bad extended RAM module
Thanks to all who replied about my computer: Protel 99SE and AutoCad 2000 crashes, Compaq Ipaq, W2K. From you responses I was able to determine that I had a hardware problem. The IT person suggested taking out the extended RAM module. The computer has been very stable for one day. Today will be the second day. I wish I had suspected the memory but the crashes could be so intermittent I was thinking software. Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
Please don't forget that other are still getting a lot of use out of 74xx series of ICs and related devices. Right on! And don't forget analog ICs with multiple parts in them, such as LM324, LM339, etc. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Watnoski, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping This is exactly where it would be useful, on programmable devices. Pins could wired arbitrarily originally by the engineer and then swapped by the board designer. The completed schematic would be returned to engineer for software changes after the pins were optimized. Please don't forget that other are still getting a lot of use out of 74xx series of ICs and related devices. Michael -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping It doesn't do it as others have already said, and frankly I think it's a technology that was useful when 7400 series was more mainstrean, but in the last 10 or so designs I've done, I don't ever recall missing the feature. This is attributed to heavy use of DSPs, uCs, PALs, FPGAs, etc. There are either no pins to swap, or the pins are programmable and I wire them up as I see fit. I would bet gate and pin swapping is low on their list of things to do. Tony -Original Message- From: Sean James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:48 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping Does anybody know how to get Protel to do gate pin swapping? Sean James PCB Designer Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc. 102 Grove Street Worcester, MA 01605 (TEL) 508.754.4858 x33 (FAX) 413.541.6170 This message was scanned for viruses on behalf of The Black Decker Corporation. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] router settings
Unless there is some reason not to can the reply be posted so the rest of us might benefit from the recommended router settings? My other question here, is why wouldn't the reply have been posted here in the first place? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 12:27 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Reply1 MS versus Linux I can back that statement, Abd ul-Rahman. Last week I received a mail directed only to me from Protel support concerning the setup of the router. I had not turned to them directly; they had been reading my postings on this thread. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH Abd ul-RahmanAn: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lomax Kopie: marjan@noho.Thema: Re: [PEDA] Reply1 MS versus Linux com 23.11.2001 21:49 Bitte antworten an Protel EDA Forum At 10:24 AM 11/23/01 -0500, Fred A Rupinski wrote: Has anyone seen Protel reply directly to this forum? Yes, on 11/20/01, from Samual Sattel, regarding Protel usage I did not find that post in my archive. I suspect that Mr. Sattel may have written directly to Mr. Rupinski in response to a Rupinski post on this list. That is not uncommon. Protel, I was informed perhaps two years ago, has a policy that employees do not post to this list except for Protelcsc, Protel Customer Service Center, which occasionally pops in when they can easily clear up some mystery that we have not handled for ourselves within a reasonable time. Exceptions are quite rare. We are pretty sure that very many employees do read this list, though perhaps fewer than was the case at one time, and perhaps once in a while an employee gets carried away and responds directly. I have been asked by an employee on occasion to convey some information to the list, a way around the restriction. At one time Protel and the users had a fairly serious adversarial stance toward each other; I think that the rule originated at that time. It was far too easy for flame wars to start. There would be other reasons as well; it can take a lot of time to write thoughtfully and it is perhaps not the best usage of employee time. I know that Mr. Foley of Accel wrote on the Accel user support list with a serious anti-time-wasting message directed at the users as well as, perhaps, at employees. But we know what happened to him, I don't think he is in the CAD business any more. I can say that there were many Accel customers who, while they were insecure about the future of the product when Protel took over, nevertheless were not sorry to see Mr. Foley go. Obviously, it is up to the users and their companies what is a waste and what is not. However, I *would* recommend a certain level of participation by certain kinds of Protel employee. Imagine how we would feel if a development engineer were actively asking us questions and reflecting on the answers. Relations have improved to the point that serious rudeness from a few users would be pretty strongly damped by the user community. Rules for employee participation could be developed, such as, for example, that employees would not respond to flames, that employees would need to be authorized by Protel to participate here, and limits might be placed on what the employees could reveal. I do think, however, that the value of secrecy is vastly overblown. Some matters properly remain secret, but secrecy clearly hampers communication (well, duh!), and good communication between the developers and users could greatly increase the pace of program improvement. On the other hand, there are also other ways that communication could be improved. A user panel is one possibility that has been mentioned; these users would be under NDA so the secrecy issues would not be such a problem; but they would be allowed to let the user community know that they were in communication with Protel and could serve as a conduit for surveys, etc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Is it possible to create short circuit component (sch+pcb)
To all, I would tend to agree with Mr. Lomax's version #2 also, this way the DRC is allowed to do its job. We used to do this with Cadnetix way back 8-10 years ago. The only thing with Cadnetix we could not set a footprint specific rule. We made footprints for each trace width required which had two pads touching. Then just swapped footprint to one needed. DRC would then flag those footprints but there where usually so few on a design they could easily be identified and disregarded. This second way also makes it part of the schematic. Just a little more documentation friendly. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Is it possible to create short circuit component (sch+pcb) At 03:11 PM 11/23/01 +0200, Juha Pajunen wrote: Is it possible to create a design without short circuit error (sch + pcb) where two different nets can be connected together? For example, I need to connect two different ground nets in one point of my PCB design and I do not want to use R0 resistor or jumpers, I need a wire that connect those nets. It is possible, I know three ways. (1) Set a short circuit rule that allows the two nets to short (Design/Rules/Other/Short Circuit Constraint). I do not recommend this method because no checking is done that there is only one point of short. (2) use a virtual short. this is a footprint corresponding to a jumper on the schematic; it can be made in many ways, but one simple way would be two pads with 0.004 mil, yes 4 micro-inch, clearance between them. A clearance design rule allows this clearance for that footprint only. these pads will fabricate as a short. They can be made to look just like a wire (3) use a mech layer and set up a special plot file for the copper layer on which the short is to appear, so that the mech layer is merged for that plot and that plot only. To be safest, this mech layer short should be part of a footprint, i.e., as with method 2, there is a jumper on the schematic. (this allows moving the short around without leaving a dangerous piece of effective copper in some random place.) Or one could add the shorting piece to a footprint manually with Tools/Change/Add selected primitives to component footprint [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] connector footprint
Does anybody have a 99SE footprint for a Standard Circular DIN 5 Pin Receptacle, Right angle PCB mount? Specifically, the part is SDS-50J from CUI Stack. www.cuistack.com Tim Fifield * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] connector footprint
I've got one for the 4 pin... if I remember its SDS-40J. May not be much help, but you are welcome to it. Frank At 12:44 PM 11/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: Does anybody have a 99SE footprint for a Standard Circular DIN 5 Pin Receptacle, Right angle PCB mount? Specifically, the part is SDS-50J from CUI Stack. www.cuistack.com Tim Fifield Frank Gilley Dell-Star Technologies (918) 838-1973 Phone (918) 838-8814 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dellstar.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] connector footprint
Yes I think I do. It's not the exact part you mentioned, but 5 pin DIN RA tend to be very similar. I'll email it to you as soon as I extract it from my lib. Tony -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:44 AM To: Protel EDA Form Subject: [PEDA] connector footprint Does anybody have a 99SE footprint for a Standard Circular DIN 5 Pin Receptacle, Right angle PCB mount? Specifically, the part is SDS-50J from CUI Stack. www.cuistack.com Tim Fifield * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug report
I just found a little bug. If I export a PCB part to spreadsheet, it works, but if I export THAT outside of the DDB before saving it it exports a zero byte file. Also, if I look at the .xls file within the DDB, it indicates zero bytes until the ddb is saved. So the internal xls file has data in it, but the project manager claims the file is zero bytes when it isn't. Tony * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug report
Tony, I ran into that little bug while taking the Protel training in Sept 2000. It drove me and the instructor, who also couldn't figure out the problem, nuts for about 15 minutes. I couldn't export the file that the instructor was trying to have us export. Someone might think that they would fix little issues like that, especially when their instructors or other Protel staffers find them or experience them. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. #300 - 4401 Still Creek Drive, Burnaby, B.C., Canada, V5C 6G9. Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 Website: www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 9:50 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] bug report I just found a little bug. If I export a PCB part to spreadsheet, it works, but if I export THAT outside of the DDB before saving it it exports a zero byte file. Also, if I look at the .xls file within the DDB, it indicates zero bytes until the ddb is saved. So the internal xls file has data in it, but the project manager claims the file is zero bytes when it isn't. Tony * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug report
At 09:49 AM 11/26/01 -0800, Tony Karavidas wrote: I just found a little bug. If I export a PCB part to spreadsheet, it works, but if I export THAT outside of the DDB before saving it it exports a zero byte file. Also, if I look at the .xls file within the DDB, it indicates zero bytes until the ddb is saved. So the internal xls file has data in it, but the project manager claims the file is zero bytes when it isn't. Bug? Perhaps. Minor quirk might be more like it. The project manager claims the file is zero bytes because it is empty. Here is how it happens, I think: When a spreadsheet is created by PCB (and I think the same is true for Schematic), the file is created but the spreadsheet data is only in RAM, it is not written to the .ddb. If at this point one closes the .ddb, there will be a prompt as to whether or not to save the file. If one saves the file, the data is written to the file. If one does *not* save the file, an empty spreadsheet is maintained in the .ddb. Yes, it has a size of 4K, I'm not sure why. But it is empty. (perhaps it contains formatting defaults or something like that, but it definitely does not contain the exported data). [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Footprint 215
Hi! I used a Protel Footprint SOT-89 (I call it 215 from IPC-SM-782) which gives me DRC errors. The problem is pin 2 has a rectangular pad with a bunch of fills and tracks added to make a big tab. The fills and tracks do not pick up the net name when the netlist is loaded giving many DRC errors. How can I get the tab to be part of the net? Clicking on the individual tracks and fills works but is a pain and the net information goes away at some point, possibly on load netlist. I have lived with the DRC errors but it is annoying. Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Reply1 MS versus Linux
- Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Reply1 MS versus Linux At 10:24 AM 11/23/01 -0500, Fred A Rupinski wrote: Has anyone seen Protel reply directly to this forum? Yes, on 11/20/01, from Samual Sattel, regarding Protel usage I did not find that post in my archive. I suspect that Mr. Sattel may have written directly to Mr. Rupinski in response to a Rupinski post on this list. That is not uncommon. You're right. The reply was addressed directly to me, but the subject filtered it to my PEDA Forum Folder. My apologies. Regards, Fred A Rupinski * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] interactive routing doesn't route more than 1 route at a time before it exits interactive routing
Interactive routing used to allow me to continue on a new route by right mouse clicking. Now it exits interactive routing after each trace. Does anyone know how to return to normal operation. Mike * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Footprint 215
Jeff, Try: Design/Netlist Manager/Menu/Update Free Primitives From Component Pads. Tim -Original Message- From: Jeff Adolphs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 2:52 PM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Footprint 215 Hi! I used a Protel Footprint SOT-89 (I call it 215 from IPC-SM-782) which gives me DRC errors. The problem is pin 2 has a rectangular pad with a bunch of fills and tracks added to make a big tab. The fills and tracks do not pick up the net name when the netlist is loaded giving many DRC errors. How can I get the tab to be part of the net? Clicking on the individual tracks and fills works but is a pain and the net information goes away at some point, possibly on load netlist. I have lived with the DRC errors but it is annoying. Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] bug report
I call it a bug. I didn't say it was a big problem, but it's not right. Say for a moment when Protel was contemplating the feature set of P99SE, they generated a product requirements document or product specification. Imagine every parameter and operation were defined properly in this documentation. Do you think they said: Generate XLS file from a PCBlib component. Now if the next operation by the user is exporting that xls, we write nothing to the disk? I don't think so. This is a little bug. My file was actually zero bytes. I'm not sure where you're seeing 4k, but that's not what I saw. Tony -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:39 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] bug report At 09:49 AM 11/26/01 -0800, Tony Karavidas wrote: I just found a little bug. If I export a PCB part to spreadsheet, it works, but if I export THAT outside of the DDB before saving it it exports a zero byte file. Also, if I look at the .xls file within the DDB, it indicates zero bytes until the ddb is saved. So the internal xls file has data in it, but the project manager claims the file is zero bytes when it isn't. Bug? Perhaps. Minor quirk might be more like it. The project manager claims the file is zero bytes because it is empty. Here is how it happens, I think: When a spreadsheet is created by PCB (and I think the same is true for Schematic), the file is created but the spreadsheet data is only in RAM, it is not written to the .ddb. If at this point one closes the .ddb, there will be a prompt as to whether or not to save the file. If one saves the file, the data is written to the file. If one does *not* save the file, an empty spreadsheet is maintained in the .ddb. Yes, it has a size of 4K, I'm not sure why. But it is empty. (perhaps it contains formatting defaults or something like that, but it definitely does not contain the exported data). [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Footprint 215
Thanks Tim! The Netlist Manager worked great and did not change a violation short where I connect Ground 1 to Ground 2. Now that I did this I know I have been given this advise before and could not remember it to save my life! I never use the Netlist Manager. Jeff -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 2:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Footprint 215 Jeff, Try: Design/Netlist Manager/Menu/Update Free Primitives From Component Pads. Tim -Original Message- From: Jeff Adolphs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 2:52 PM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Footprint 215 Hi! I used a Protel Footprint SOT-89 (I call it 215 from IPC-SM-782) which gives me DRC errors. The problem is pin 2 has a rectangular pad with a bunch of fills and tracks added to make a big tab. The fills and tracks do not pick up the net name when the netlist is loaded giving many DRC errors. How can I get the tab to be part of the net? Clicking on the individual tracks and fills works but is a pain and the net information goes away at some point, possibly on load netlist. I have lived with the DRC errors but it is annoying. Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Protel Crashes
Hello! I have had extended RAM removed from my computer thinking the RAM was bad. Computer is Compaq Ipaq, now with 64 meg of RAM, W2K. Day One: no computer crashes. Day Two: three Protel 99SE crashes. All three gave an error window starting with something like: Access violation at address 00444C65 in module 'Client99... All three crashes were in a span of 5 1/2 hours (10:15 AM EST, 11:15 AM EST, and 3:00 PM EST). Question: Could the 3 Protel 99SE crashes be from running with only 64 meg of RAM, Protel needs reloaded from numerous crashes with bad extended RAM, or other hardware problems suspected? Any guesses? Thank You! Jeff * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Footprint 215
At 01:51 PM 11/26/01 -0500, Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hi! I used a Protel Footprint SOT-89 (I call it 215 from IPC-SM-782) which gives me DRC errors. The problem is pin 2 has a rectangular pad with a bunch of fills and tracks added to make a big tab. The fills and tracks do not pick up the net name when the netlist is loaded giving many DRC errors. How can I get the tab to be part of the net? Clicking on the individual tracks and fills works but is a pain and the net information goes away at some point, possibly on load netlist. In order to edit the individual tracks and fills, one must unlock the component primitives. It is advised to relock them when done. The generic way to assign nets to those primitives is to run Design/NetlistManager/Menu/Update Free Primitives from Component Pads. In spite of its name, it also updates non-pad component primitives. As to why the tracks and fills lost their net assignments, I don't know. I have a vague memory of that happening. Generally, I think, once the assignments are made, they stick. Maybe that is with the Synchronizer (In Schematic, Update PCB), perhaps Netlist Load clears them, there are some differences like that. The Synchronizer correctly handles the case of multiple pads with the same name, Netlist Load sometimes does not (the assignments will be correct with first Load, then oscillate with subsequent Loads). This could be related. But I'm speculating. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Crashes
Though 64MByte are lower than the recommended size it shouldn't crash. It could also be caused by faulty drivers, be it graphics drivers, USB drivers, whatever. Rene Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hello! I have had extended RAM removed from my computer thinking the RAM was bad. Computer is Compaq Ipaq, now with 64 meg of RAM, W2K. Day One: no computer crashes. Day Two: three Protel 99SE crashes. All three gave an error window starting with something like: Access violation at address 00444C65 in module 'Client99... All three crashes were in a span of 5 1/2 hours (10:15 AM EST, 11:15 AM EST, and 3:00 PM EST). Question: Could the 3 Protel 99SE crashes be from running with only 64 meg of RAM, Protel needs reloaded from numerous crashes with bad extended RAM, or other hardware problems suspected? Any guesses? Thank You! Jeff * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Crashes
Jeff: I have seen Protel crash with similar access violation messages when, during Protel startup, you switch the focus to another application while Protel is scanning files. This happened to me last week. For some reason, the day after, it was healed and didn't do it anymore. If that describes what happened with you, it's probably some Delphi nonsense. It can't be due to insufficient RAM - I've got 512MB. If that's not what happened with you, it could be insufficient RAM. Of course, with Compaq, everything is suspect. I'm running W2K SP2 on dual-PIII generic white box PC. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Adolphs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 3:19 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel Crashes Hello! I have had extended RAM removed from my computer thinking the RAM was bad. Computer is Compaq Ipaq, now with 64 meg of RAM, W2K. Day One: no computer crashes. Day Two: three Protel 99SE crashes. All three gave an error window starting with something like: Access violation at address 00444C65 in module 'Client99... All three crashes were in a span of 5 1/2 hours (10:15 AM EST, 11:15 AM EST, and 3:00 PM EST). Question: Could the 3 Protel 99SE crashes be from running with only 64 meg of RAM, Protel needs reloaded from numerous crashes with bad extended RAM, or other hardware problems suspected? Any guesses? Thank You! Jeff * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Crashes
At 03:19 PM 11/26/01 -0500, Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hello! I have had extended RAM removed from my computer thinking the RAM was bad. Computer is Compaq Ipaq, now with 64 meg of RAM, W2K. As I recall, this has Compaq on-board video? Day One: no computer crashes. Day Two: three Protel 99SE crashes. All three gave an error window starting with something like: Access violation at address 00444C65 in module 'Client99... All three crashes were in a span of 5 1/2 hours (10:15 AM EST, 11:15 AM EST, and 3:00 PM EST). Question: Could the 3 Protel 99SE crashes be from running with only 64 meg of RAM,... Possibly. But I would not think of that first. Protel needs reloaded from numerous crashes with bad extended RAM, Possibly. Not likely, but possible. Uninstalling Protel and reloading would rule this out (especially if the ini and rcs files are also made new. No harm in keeping the old ones somewhere else if you have some customization you'd like to get back.) or other hardware problems suspected? Any guesses? CPU socket bad. If symptoms can be seen to change, at least temporarily, from reseating the CPU, this would indicate a bad socket (or CPU pin or other motherboard defect). Video bad or incompatible. Other malfunctioning memory. Aren't intermittent failures wonderful? Protel, in a fully functioning system, does not crash like Mr. Adolphs reported, with the exception of certain buggy areas of the program, which will be associated with the use of these areas, which are not your common, everyday tools for most people. So the problem is almost certainly bad hardware or a software interaction. One could try running Protel as bare as possible. Ah, yes. Turn off video acceleration, its an easy step. In Windows 98SE, this would be Start/Settings/Control Panel/Display/Settings/Advanced/Hardware Acceleration/, set the slider to None. If this improves the program behavior, it may not prove that the video hardware is the problem, but it would certainly be a clue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Crashes
IIRC, the Ipaq series uses on-board video that shares the main RAM (no dedicated VRAM, yuck). Also I think it has no expansion slots so you can't even try a separate video card with dedicated VRAM. Sharing memory between applications and video is asking for trouble with any graphics intensive programs. It's Ok for word processing, other office type applications and simple children's games but, it is nothing but trouble for serious CAD or, graphics editing (and 3D games too). I think you need a different PC as others have suggested. Paul -Original Message- From: Jeff Adolphs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 3:20 PM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Protel Crashes Hello! I have had extended RAM removed from my computer thinking the RAM was bad. Computer is Compaq Ipaq, now with 64 meg of RAM, W2K. Day One: no computer crashes. Day Two: three Protel 99SE crashes. All three gave an error window starting with something like: Access violation at address 00444C65 in module 'Client99... All three crashes were in a span of 5 1/2 hours (10:15 AM EST, 11:15 AM EST, and 3:00 PM EST). Question: Could the 3 Protel 99SE crashes be from running with only 64 meg of RAM, Protel needs reloaded from numerous crashes with bad extended RAM, or other hardware problems suspected? Any guesses? Thank You! Jeff * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] QFP program
Re: [PEDA] connector footprint
I have for the Right Angle Mini-Din5 - used for audio s-video. Brian Guralnick - Original Message - From: Tim Fifield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Form [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: [PEDA] connector footprint | Does anybody have a 99SE footprint for a Standard Circular DIN 5 Pin | Receptacle, Right angle PCB mount? | | Specifically, the part is SDS-50J from CUI Stack. www.cuistack.com | | | Tim Fifield | | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Crashes
At 03:27 PM 11/26/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: I have seen Protel crash with similar access violation messages when, during Protel startup, you switch the focus to another application while Protel is scanning files. I think I've seen that also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM error was: bug report
Warning Unable to process data: multipart/mixed;boundary==_NextPart_000_001E_01C17680.D2A71020
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
Plus all the 'widebus' type logic IC's. The inability to easily gate swap is one of the reasons people resort to laying the PCB out first and creating the SCH second. Its a cumbersome system in Protel and a backward step from V2.8. Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/27/2001 12:46:00 AM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping Please don't forget that other are still getting a lot of use out of 74xx series of ICs and related devices. Right on! And don't forget analog ICs with multiple parts in them, such as LM324, LM339, etc. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Watnoski, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping This is exactly where it would be useful, on programmable devices. Pins could wired arbitrarily originally by the engineer and then swapped by the board designer. The completed schematic would be returned to engineer for software changes after the pins were optimized. Please don't forget that other are still getting a lot of use out of 74xx series of ICs and related devices. Michael -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:01 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping It doesn't do it as others have already said, and frankly I think it's a technology that was useful when 7400 series was more mainstrean, but in the last 10 or so designs I've done, I don't ever recall missing the feature. This is attributed to heavy use of DSPs, uCs, PALs, FPGAs, etc. There are either no pins to swap, or the pins are programmable and I wire them up as I see fit. I would bet gate and pin swapping is low on their list of things to do. Tony -Original Message- From: Sean James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:48 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping Does anybody know how to get Protel to do gate pin swapping? Sean James PCB Designer Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc. 102 Grove Street Worcester, MA 01605 (TEL) 508.754.4858 x33 (FAX) 413.541.6170 This message was scanned for viruses on behalf of The Black Decker Corporation. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
On 08:52 AM 26/11/2001 -0500, Watnoski, Michael said: This is exactly where it would be useful, on programmable devices. Pins could wired arbitrarily originally by the engineer and then swapped by the board designer. The completed schematic would be returned to engineer for software changes after the pins were optimized. Please don't forget that other are still getting a lot of use out of 74xx series of ICs and related devices. Michael This would be interesting - a PCB designer changing the fit of a CPLD or FPGA. That would not go down well with me...unless there was detailed discussion and I had investigated the side-effects on fit, timing, resource usage etc. This sort of thing could work well if there was a method of conveying which pins could swap with what at the Sch level. But not arbitrary changes. Maybe there is a an argument for being able to define pin groups at the Sch Lib level, and being able to change them at the Sch level. Any members of a pin group can be swapped with any other of the same group. This would be an extension to the idea of the older pin swapping but made more general for the modern programmable devices. But it is many many years since I missed the feature - I always go back to the Sch; these days we concentrate heavily on configuration control, and that means Sch and PCB in absolute lock. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] interactive routing doesn't route more than 1 route at a time before it exits interactive routing
On 11:14 AM 26/11/2001 -0800, Mike Ingle said: Interactive routing used to allow me to continue on a new route by right mouse clicking. Now it exits interactive routing after each trace. Does anyone know how to return to normal operation. Mike This one is really really obvious..you should be able to work it out for yourself. Consider yourself an abject failure What is that...you actually want me to point out the obvious? It is the Control Panel double-click mouse speed that sets the right click timing that Protel uses. See obvious isn't it. I mean I worked it out..not. Someone else on this forum, sorry can't recall who, pointed this out a while ago, I welcomed the info as it had been bugging me. I am not sure if Protel just happens to use the double-click timing to determine a long right click from a short one or if there is some Delphi/Win32 API event that one uses. I have not investigated. I am just pointing out that this may not be solely a Protel issue. Next time you are interactively routing try flicking the right mouse button really quickly and you should find that you do not fully exit interactive routing. Same for a number of other commands. You can change the double click timing by using the Control Panel|Mouse applet. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Database Repair
Hello! I'm the one having Protel Crashes with the message 'Access violation I have read the Protel Knowledge Base and found I should be doing Database Repair. Maybe the Protel Crashes are related to not doing Database Repair. On two large Database Files the Database Repair could not fix them. Does Database Repair have problems repairing large designs? Still working on why I get Protel Crashes, so far I have lowered Video Acceleration, used Database Repair ( the design which has been crashing was able to be fixed by Database Repair (although there is no way of knowing if there was anything to fix), and gotten ALL the related Protel Knowledge Base pages they had. Tomorrow I will look at the Main Board and make sure the processor looks seated properly (kind of doubting the processor is the problem since Microsoft Outlook ran good the last two days, AutoCAD 2000 ran well also (didn't do much with AutoCAD 2000 today though). Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Database Repair
You could try increasing the size of the tracks and grid in your polygons to a larger value - maybe 30 to 40 to 50 thou. If these primitives are too small it increases the size of the database considerably and leads to unstable operation. Another long term Protel bug. When is a primitive 'merge' for polygons going to appear? Jeff Adolphs [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/27/2001 08:52:52 AM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) Subject: [PEDA] Database Repair Hello! I'm the one having Protel Crashes with the message 'Access violation I have read the Protel Knowledge Base and found I should be doing Database Repair. Maybe the Protel Crashes are related to not doing Database Repair. On two large Database Files the Database Repair could not fix them. Does Database Repair have problems repairing large designs? Still working on why I get Protel Crashes, so far I have lowered Video Acceleration, used Database Repair ( the design which has been crashing was able to be fixed by Database Repair (although there is no way of knowing if there was anything to fix), and gotten ALL the related Protel Knowledge Base pages they had. Tomorrow I will look at the Main Board and make sure the processor looks seated properly (kind of doubting the processor is the problem since Microsoft Outlook ran good the last two days, AutoCAD 2000 ran well also (didn't do much with AutoCAD 2000 today though). Jeff Adolphs Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. Westerville, Ohio * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Database Repair
At 05:52 PM 11/26/01 -0500, Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hello! I'm the one having Protel Crashes with the message 'Access violation I have read the Protel Knowledge Base and found I should be doing Database Repair. Maybe the Protel Crashes are related to not doing Database Repair. On two large Database Files the Database Repair could not fix them. Does Database Repair have problems repairing large designs? Well, obviously, the larger the database the more possibility of an unrepairable error. Other than that, I don't know. But if your memory is limited to 64K as mentioned before, perhaps this could be a problem. Normally it is not necessary to repair databases, but if you have been having frequent crashes, this could certainly corrupt a database. I've never seen a damaged .ddb, though. Ddbs should not be allowed to grow to enormous sizes, in my opinion. Periodically delete unnecessary files (and empty the ddb recycle bin), and I recommend setting automatic compact on close. (an option under the Client menu, that mysterious down-arrow in the upper left corner of the screen. At least that is the default position, I don't know if it can be moved. Files are not really deleted from the .ddb until the Recycle Bin is emptied, and even then the space allocated to them remains, thus the .ddb continues to grow. Compacting the database recovers this space. Still working on why I get Protel Crashes, so far I have lowered Video Acceleration, used Database Repair ( the design which has been crashing was able to be fixed by Database Repair (although there is no way of knowing if there was anything to fix), and gotten ALL the related Protel Knowledge Base pages they had. Tomorrow I will look at the Main Board and make sure the processor looks seated properly (kind of doubting the processor is the problem since Microsoft Outlook ran good the last two days, AutoCAD 2000 ran well also (didn't do much with AutoCAD 2000 today though). That some programs, or even all programs but one, is no proof that there is no hardware problem. Obviously, if all crashes happen with one program only, we will suspect the program rather strongly, but it is possible that a memory problem, for example, is pattern sensitive or that some other obscure interaction between the program and the hardware is bringing a fault to the fore. But, once again, the most likely culprit is the video system, sorry to say. It's a shame if one can't run an $8000 piece of software because someone tried to save a much smaller sum of money by not using video RAM but instead sharing user RAM. It is a near certainty that these problems will go away if you install Protel on a better computer. It doesn't have to be an expensive one; I could probably buy something better than I am using now for a few hundred dollars, excluding stuff like the hard drives and other transferable peripherals. Hmmm... So why am I putting up with my aging K6-450? Inertia. Not much else. Well, it's always a major interruption to install everything on a new system, get the network talking sense, etc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pin gate swapping
At 09:04 AM 11/27/01 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plus all the 'widebus' type logic IC's. The inability to easily gate swap is one of the reasons people resort to laying the PCB out first and creating the SCH second. Its a cumbersome system in Protel and a backward step from V2.8. I'm going to repeat that it is not difficult to gate-swap in Protel. What is missing is the pin-association and gate-swap intelligence, leaving two ways to do the job: (1) Change the schematic and Update PCB. If the PCB has a lot of nodes, however, this may take too much time. (2) Edit the net assignments of the pads to effect a swap. Then run the Synchronizer (Schematic: Update PCB) or Load Nets and preview the macros. Right-click in the window and create a macro report. I think this aborts the macro execution; if it doesn't, cancel. This report will be, effectively, a change list. Use it to edit the schematic. When the Synchronizer is run again there should be no macros or some error has been made in changing the schematic (or was made when the pad nets were swapped). There is a variation on (2) that might be faster. Unlock the primitives and move the pads around to interchange them. Before moving the pads, pop a small pad on each of the component pads, give it a pad name like TEMP. Lock these extra pads. They can be used to snap the larger moved footprint pads into place. They can also be placed on a mech layer for the same purpose. (One fast way to create a lot of these position pads for a footprint is to photoplot the footprint, import the gerber to a scratch PCB file, edit the pads to a mech layer, and copy and paste them over the original footprint. The general idea of making a template to control positioning of primitives has many applications If the footprint pad names were descriptive of what section of a gate they belong to and what type they are (i.e., input, output), one would be able to see what was swappable directly on-screen. There is no law that says that the pads of a 7400 nand gate have to be numbered 1 - 14, they could be *named* 1A,1B,1OUT,2A,2B,2OUT,GND,3OUT,3B,3A,4OUT,4B,4A,VCC. Of course the schematic pins would have to be numbered the same way. Once you get the gates swapped as desired -- which can happen during routing -- change the schematic, *update the footprints* to restore the original pad sequence (I think Protel will move the nets with the pads, creating errors), and then synchronize, which should leave no errors if you have made no mistakes. Be sure to do a global edit to leave all the components with primitives locked. It might seem dangerous to move those pads around, but updating the footprints (this is done from the library) restores the correct positioning of the pads. I have not personally done every step of what I have described, but I have used the general idea and I just added some details which might improve the process. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Database Repair
At 10:07 AM 11/27/01 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could try increasing the size of the tracks and grid in your polygons to a larger value - maybe 30 to 40 to 50 thou. If these primitives are too small it increases the size of the database considerably and leads to unstable operation. Another long term Protel bug. Well, by its nature, a polygon pour with fine track creates a whole huge pile of primitives. That's intrinsic to the pour concept, as long as it is purely positive (which makes it possible to use the same DRC routines, for example). When is a primitive 'merge' for polygons going to appear? Mr. Broome is referring, I think, to enabling Protel to do RS-274X positive/negative merges, which would greatly decrease database and plot size where pours are involved, and it would also solve certain other pour problems. I have detailed in other posts how this could be done *without* requiring negative checking, a rather complex process. At the same time, the same process would make inner planes as DRCable as positive copper pours. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Database Repair
So why am I putting up with my aging K6-450? Inertia. Not much else. Well, it's always a major interruption to install everything on a new system, get the network talking sense, etc True! This is one on-going problem the PC industry has ignored. As long as they continue to ignore this problem, people will delay upgrading as long as possible. You would think they would realize they could double their sales if they made transferring and upgrading easier. My policy is to buy PCs that are sufficiently powerful and reliable that I don't have to upgrade more often than every 4 years. So far, this strategy has worked: 1987: first PC, a 10MHz 286 1992: 2nd PC, a 33MHz 486DX 1996: 3rd PC, a 200MHz Dell Pentium (my first use of Protel was on this PC) 2001: 4th PC, a 1GHz dual-PIII generic white box 2005: who knows? Of course, I don't count that lemon Compaq Presario 4640 I bought 3 years ago. That was for home use, and has long since been replaced by a 466MHz Celeron generic white box. If upgrading were easier, I might do it every 2 or 3 years. My latest upgrade (Dell to white box) took 1 week out of my work schedule to configure network settings, load all my apps, transfer data files, and verify the installs and transfers. This seems like a lot of time, but I wanted to make sure everything worked before I stopped using the old workstation. Verifying this stuff takes lots of time! Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Database Repair At 05:52 PM 11/26/01 -0500, Jeff Adolphs wrote: Hello! I'm the one having Protel Crashes with the message 'Access violation I have read the Protel Knowledge Base and found I should be doing Database Repair. Maybe the Protel Crashes are related to not doing Database Repair. On two large Database Files the Database Repair could not fix them. Does Database Repair have problems repairing large designs? Well, obviously, the larger the database the more possibility of an unrepairable error. Other than that, I don't know. But if your memory is limited to 64K as mentioned before, perhaps this could be a problem. Normally it is not necessary to repair databases, but if you have been having frequent crashes, this could certainly corrupt a database. I've never seen a damaged .ddb, though. Ddbs should not be allowed to grow to enormous sizes, in my opinion. Periodically delete unnecessary files (and empty the ddb recycle bin), and I recommend setting automatic compact on close. (an option under the Client menu, that mysterious down-arrow in the upper left corner of the screen. At least that is the default position, I don't know if it can be moved. Files are not really deleted from the .ddb until the Recycle Bin is emptied, and even then the space allocated to them remains, thus the .ddb continues to grow. Compacting the database recovers this space. Still working on why I get Protel Crashes, so far I have lowered Video Acceleration, used Database Repair ( the design which has been crashing was able to be fixed by Database Repair (although there is no way of knowing if there was anything to fix), and gotten ALL the related Protel Knowledge Base pages they had. Tomorrow I will look at the Main Board and make sure the processor looks seated properly (kind of doubting the processor is the problem since Microsoft Outlook ran good the last two days, AutoCAD 2000 ran well also (didn't do much with AutoCAD 2000 today though). That some programs, or even all programs but one, is no proof that there is no hardware problem. Obviously, if all crashes happen with one program only, we will suspect the program rather strongly, but it is possible that a memory problem, for example, is pattern sensitive or that some other obscure interaction between the program and the hardware is bringing a fault to the fore. But, once again, the most likely culprit is the video system, sorry to say. It's a shame if one can't run an $8000 piece of software because someone tried to save a much smaller sum of money by not using video RAM but instead sharing user RAM. It is a near certainty that these problems will go away if you install Protel on a better computer. It doesn't have to be an expensive one; I could probably buy something better than I am using now for a few hundred dollars, excluding stuff like the hard drives and other transferable peripherals. Hmmm... So why am I putting up with my aging K6-450? Inertia. Not much else. Well, it's always a major interruption to install everything on a new system, get the network talking sense, etc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To
