Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic
Yup, On Win2KPro. Same here and random, it does hang, and lately sometimes it even blows you out of Protel while compacting and does not complete the compact so I have to do it manually. But so far no show stopper just very annoying. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic Steve, just for Roger's or your reference, I always close the open DDBs, shut down P99SE SP6, still I have the hung Protel if I check task manager. Not that often but a few times per week. The usual way that I find this is when I logout shutdown at the end of the day and I get a message stating that P99SE SP6 is still running, do I want to close it now. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:05 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic In a message dated 9/3/2002 2:57:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the behaviour of P99SE on Win2k is not that uncommon. I have the hanging P99SE on close (application does not shut down completely) randomly and I know others have mentioned it on the listserver. Does not seem to be a show stopper to anyone though. I'm running 99SE SP6 on W2K. I have seen the hang on shutdown many times, but now I make sure I always close all open designs first (alt-F D) and then close Protel, and I don't have any problem. Steve Hendrix * Tracking #: 1B239D895B925E4EAFD05E476681B299FB24C984 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic
On 09:08 PM 3/09/2002 -0400, Robert M. Wolfe said: Yup, On Win2KPro. Same here and random, it does hang, and lately sometimes it even blows you out of Protel while compacting and does not complete the compact so I have to do it manually. But so far no show stopper just very annoying. Bob Wolfe Win2k SP2 here and I have not had Protel hang on shutdown for a very long time. (Actually haven't had Protel crash for ages either). PIII-450 (yes, a dinosaur) (you should see DXP run on this!) 256M RAM 100BaseT network Matrox G550 Canon Inkjet printer locally A number of network (shared) printers on other computers or set to dump to FILE: CDRW (with the dreaded Roxio software, Easy CD Creator 4) Office 2000 (with FP and Access installed) Adobe Acrobat 4.05 (Distiller and Maker both installed) McAfee Virus Scan on but I thought I had turned off file scanning (on open/create/modify etc) but I just checked and inbound files are auto scanned - this means any file modified or copied by this or other computer id scanned on the fly. In the past I have found McAfee causes Protel to hang if the file scanning options are enabled. (Don't you hate the cutesy HTML style look of the new McAfee and Norton virus scanners!) Machine is on 24/7 with occasional shutdowns when I am going away or am installing new hardware (maybe once every month or so). Protel is shutdown and restarted about once a day when I am Protelling. I do *not* bother closing DDBs before closing usually - since I do not have a problem with closing down. Dunno what MDAC drivers I have, but they have been updated somewhere along the line. MySQL is installed as is buckets of dev tools (MS and Borland) etc etc etc. If someone lets me know how to find the MDAC drivers I can post them. In Protel I use -Sch, SchLib, PCB, PCBLib, SIM, Text Edit, CamManager. I use Access-format DDBs. P99SE SP6. Compact on close is enabled. That is about it. There is probably a method of dumping a machine configuration and then those unfortunate souls having problems may be able to try to determine the differences. Actually, Altium should try to get as many of these dumps and ratings of stability and try to determine why their program shows the huge variation in stability that us users see. I do run the Windows update service every so often (every couple of weeks) and get the next few Mbytes of security patches. Ian Wilson * Tracking #: 0E8DF04121A1F34EBF50E8F46691D46369C179B9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms
Do yourself a favour: Take a look at the relative new tool called PULSONIX (www.pulsonix.com) Those guys are very serious and the package is low priced but with very good functionality and not to forget: Very stable. In addition, if a user finds a bug (it is software though) and reports it, it is usually fixed within a few hours (and this is the fact) and the user receives the updated files. This is the customer care you always has been looking for. The Pulsonix EDA tool imports design files AND library files from a lot of other EDA tools, and this also works perfectly. From a former Protel VAR -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 14:48 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the Accel deal)PADS offers less features at a higher price than MENTORs EXPEDITON did, I'm not sure how Mentor plans to sell a program with less features at a higher price. ( did I repeat myself, sounds like the Accel deal again) MENTOR EXPEDITION: Guys and Gals This is the real McCoy of Software. This is the program everybody but me should be using, This is the yardstick that all tools should be measured to. So why cant I use it ? Be cause I cant import a netlist into it. That is a major hurdle for design bureaus, since we get netlist different sch packages . If your design is in house, both schematics and pcb. There is no better tool. OK you say you cant afford it? 36K with all the bells and whistles. Don't look at how much the tool cost but how much you will save when things are working the way they should. This tool will actually save you money This is VERIBEST software, which I saw several years ago, it was good then and it is better now. I have not seen anything better , period. INTERCEPT: I just spent a few minutes on the phone yesterday with the rep. BUZZ drop them to the gator trap! They use Spectra for routing. OK Spectra is good. If you couple Spectra with Protel, you can probably do a board as good as any piece of software out there except the MENTOR stuff. Cadence: See INTERCEPTcomments with Spectra. Same old trick another day with Spectra. Lets face it if Cadence didn't purchase this software they would have folded years ago. * Tracking #: 0ABD3E4F9E846144B1FEDB6FB5C7FD604A086EB2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms
Mike, I would absolutely agree Mentor Expedition (VeriBest) has the cream product with Allegro just behind and like I said earlier if you really look at how a function is done etc you will absolutely save time and money in long run. I do feel the VeriBest router still beats Specctra though. If you really look at this program it runs circles around anything else for interactive routing. I find it hard to believe you can't take in a netlist though?? I believe Orcad etc output a keyin netlist which VeriBest would take in, not sure since Mentor made a few versions now with respect to netlists though. I will just re-iterate, if you look at what you would need to pay for Protel with a good autorouter included I really believe that even the full blown version at about 36k is really only about 6-8K more but believe me you would be saveing more than 6-8k in time and effort in the first year. But you could get a lesser version of Expedition that limits the number of layers that can be autorouted most else is same other than the lowest 2 layer version, so if you really do not autoroute to begin with the interactive / manual routing capability of this tool can't be beat. Not a plug just from first hand knowledge of both Protel and Expedition, I am still using Protel, but trying really hard to convince the powers at be to move to either Allegro or Expedition. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:48 AM Subject: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the Accel deal)PADS offers less features at a higher price than MENTORs EXPEDITON did, I'm not sure how Mentor plans to sell a program with less features at a higher price. ( did I repeat myself, sounds like the Accel deal again) MENTOR EXPEDITION: Guys and Gals This is the real McCoy of Software. This is the program everybody but me should be using, This is the yardstick that all tools should be measured to. So why cant I use it ? Be cause I cant import a netlist into it. That is a major hurdle for design bureaus, since we get netlist different sch packages . If your design is in house, both schematics and pcb. There is no better tool. OK you say you cant afford it? 36K with all the bells and whistles. Don't look at how much the tool cost but how much you will save when things are working the way they should. This tool will actually save you money This is VERIBEST software, which I saw several years ago, it was good then and it is better now. I have not seen anything better , period. INTERCEPT: I just spent a few minutes on the phone yesterday with the rep. BUZZ drop them to the gator trap! They use Spectra for routing. OK Spectra is good. If you couple Spectra with Protel, you can probably do a board as good as any piece of software out there except the MENTOR stuff. Cadence: See INTERCEPTcomments with Spectra. Same old trick another day with Spectra. Lets face it if Cadence didn't purchase this software they would have folded years ago.
Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms
You say these people are very serious about their product. I'm not sure. I found their web site the 20th of February. They were offering a free schematic capture. I downloaded it and sent in an email to get the key. I never got it back. Even after several emails. Your comments interested me. I'm ready to dump Protel 99SE and I will not got to DXP. So I hit their site this morning after I saw your reply. First thing is see is they ended the free schematic in March. Still waiting for the key requested in Feb! Price is a big factor for me so the next thing I looked for was their pricing. I went to the sales link. No pricing I could find. I went to More Information. Using their site index for Prices, Trade-in Prices and Upgrade Prices got Page Not Found errors. I'll keep an eye on them, but I'm not going to even try their demo if I don't know the pricing before hand. I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I also didn't find any info on tech support. Do they have phone support? They are in the UK, but I see they have a rep or two in the states. A unhappy Protel user -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms Do yourself a favour: Take a look at the relative new tool called PULSONIX (www.pulsonix.com) Those guys are very serious and the package is low priced but with very good functionality and not to forget: Very stable. In addition, if a user finds a bug (it is software though) and reports it, it is usually fixed within a few hours (and this is the fact) and the user receives the updated files. This is the customer care you always has been looking for. The Pulsonix EDA tool imports design files AND library files from a lot of other EDA tools, and this also works perfectly. From a former Protel VAR -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 14:48 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the Accel deal)PADS offers less features at a higher price than MENTORs EXPEDITON did, I'm not sure how Mentor plans to sell a program with less features at a higher price. ( did I repeat myself, sounds like the Accel deal again) MENTOR EXPEDITION: Guys and Gals This is the real McCoy of Software. This is the program everybody but me should be using, This is the yardstick that all tools should be measured to. So why cant I use it ? Be cause I cant import a netlist into it. That is a major hurdle for design bureaus, since we get netlist different sch packages . If your design is in house, both schematics and pcb. There is no better tool. OK you say you cant afford it? 36K with all the bells and whistles. Don't look at how much the tool cost but how much you will save when things are working the way they should. This tool will actually save you money This is VERIBEST software, which I saw several years ago, it was good
Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic
Microsoft has an MDAC component checker utility that will analyse your machine to determine the MDAC version: http://download.microsoft.com/download/dasdk/CC/2.7/WIN98MeXP/EN-US/cc.exe All of the different versions of MDAC can be downloaded from: http://www.microsoft.com/data/download.htm#CCinfo John Williams - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic ... Dunno what MDAC drivers I have, but they have been updated somewhere along the line. MySQL is installed as is buckets of dev tools (MS and Borland) etc etc etc. If someone lets me know how to find the MDAC drivers I can post them. ... * Tracking #: 43DFC7369B3BA643AFA020ACBD12043053A3C569 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] SV: SV: Hard Look at other Programms
Hi Craig. It's unbelieveable (ofcourse I believe you), - this is not like them. Prices depend on the size of the package, - there are various to chose between. I'd suggest you contact your local reseller or directly the people in UK. If you wan't me to, I can arrange that you are being contacted, - just let me know... Peder -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Craig Elison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 16:14 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms You say these people are very serious about their product. I'm not sure. I found their web site the 20th of February. They were offering a free schematic capture. I downloaded it and sent in an email to get the key. I never got it back. Even after several emails. Your comments interested me. I'm ready to dump Protel 99SE and I will not got to DXP. So I hit their site this morning after I saw your reply. First thing is see is they ended the free schematic in March. Still waiting for the key requested in Feb! Price is a big factor for me so the next thing I looked for was their pricing. I went to the sales link. No pricing I could find. I went to More Information. Using their site index for Prices, Trade-in Prices and Upgrade Prices got Page Not Found errors. I'll keep an eye on them, but I'm not going to even try their demo if I don't know the pricing before hand. I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I also didn't find any info on tech support. Do they have phone support? They are in the UK, but I see they have a rep or two in the states. A unhappy Protel user -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms Do yourself a favour: Take a look at the relative new tool called PULSONIX (www.pulsonix.com) Those guys are very serious and the package is low priced but with very good functionality and not to forget: Very stable. In addition, if a user finds a bug (it is software though) and reports it, it is usually fixed within a few hours (and this is the fact) and the user receives the updated files. This is the customer care you always has been looking for. The Pulsonix EDA tool imports design files AND library files from a lot of other EDA tools, and this also works perfectly. From a former Protel VAR -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 14:48 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the Accel deal)PADS offers less features at a higher price than MENTORs EXPEDITON did, I'm not sure how Mentor plans to sell a program with less features at a higher price. ( did I repeat myself, sounds like the Accel deal again) MENTOR EXPEDITION: Guys and Gals This is the real McCoy of Software. This is the program everybody but me should be using, This is the yardstick that all tools should be measured to. So why cant I use it
Re: [PEDA] SV: SV: Hard Look at other Programms
Hi Peder, I'll give one of their state side reps a call when I have some time. I have to find something to replace my 99SE with. Thanks for yourt input on the package. I take it your very happy with it? I'll keep that it mind. Craig -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:26 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SV: SV: Hard Look at other Programms Hi Craig. It's unbelieveable (ofcourse I believe you), - this is not like them. Prices depend on the size of the package, - there are various to chose between. I'd suggest you contact your local reseller or directly the people in UK. If you wan't me to, I can arrange that you are being contacted, - just let me know... Peder -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Craig Elison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 16:14 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms You say these people are very serious about their product. I'm not sure. I found their web site the 20th of February. They were offering a free schematic capture. I downloaded it and sent in an email to get the key. I never got it back. Even after several emails. Your comments interested me. I'm ready to dump Protel 99SE and I will not got to DXP. So I hit their site this morning after I saw your reply. First thing is see is they ended the free schematic in March. Still waiting for the key requested in Feb! Price is a big factor for me so the next thing I looked for was their pricing. I went to the sales link. No pricing I could find. I went to More Information. Using their site index for Prices, Trade-in Prices and Upgrade Prices got Page Not Found errors. I'll keep an eye on them, but I'm not going to even try their demo if I don't know the pricing before hand. I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I also didn't find any info on tech support. Do they have phone support? They are in the UK, but I see they have a rep or two in the states. A unhappy Protel user -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms Do yourself a favour: Take a look at the relative new tool called PULSONIX (www.pulsonix.com) Those guys are very serious and the package is low priced but with very good functionality and not to forget: Very stable. In addition, if a user finds a bug (it is software though) and reports it, it is usually fixed within a few hours (and this is the fact) and the user receives the updated files. This is the customer care you always has been looking for. The Pulsonix EDA tool imports design files AND library files from a lot of other EDA tools, and this also works perfectly. From a former Protel VAR -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 14:48 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the
Re: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms
Bob Wolfe wrote I do feel the VeriBest router still beats Specctra though. If you really look at this program it runs circles around anything else for interactive routing. Not just interactive routing , there is more to interactive routing than placing traces. Mentor understands dedign rules with High speed, delay, capacitance, parrallel rules, timing etc. It follows all the rules. These are the tools I need. I find it hard to believe you can't take in a netlist though?? Hard to believe its true. I even went to a full day workshop for Mentor, The reps choked when I asked them if it supported an external netlist. I would have purchased the product two months ago if it did. You are right about pricing Purchase Protel for 10K ( or whatever) then add 45 K for a real router. I wish Protel would just stop what ever they are trying to do with this router project. Start from scratch.. First line of code should read.. Once upon a time. Develop the router as a separate product Then market it as a separate product.Reason, it would support new useres, old users, even other programs that still rely on Spectra, ie Accel. Dont think for a minute that Altium didnt redesign DXP without hooks into Accel .They have two products, they wouldnt dream of developing two product lines at this point. So the router has to be compatible with product B. I have preferences to use a seperate computer to do routing. It allows me to contunue with other projects while routing.Integrated routers sound good in theory but for me it doesnt work well. . I may be part of a small exception. Does anyone out there know of a conversion program that can take the 99SE rules text file and can convert it to a spectra.do file with net classes included?Right now this may be my best alternative to routing. Mike Reagan EDSI * Tracking #: 2BF2659CF555FB40B9CA488995DC136E0BEC3CE4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:14:17 -0500, you wrote: I'll keep an eye on them, but I'm not going to even try their demo if I don't know the pricing before hand. I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I also didn't find any info on tech support. Do they have phone support? They are in the UK, but I see they have a rep or two in the states. I called them. There are 1k, 2k and unlimited pin options with and without autorouter. UK unlimited without router GBP 2450 UK unlimited with router GBP 3450 I was offered 25% 'trade in' discount against Protel - I didn't ask about details so there may be some unpleasant strings attached to a 'trade in'. The router engine is from Bartels (www.bartels.de). Maintenance is GPB 331 p.a. with router GBP 194 p.a. without. Said unlimited hotline support and all product updates included. The guy said there had been a rush of demo downloads today from American Protel users - you know who you are :) Cheers, Terry. * Tracking #: 6B7B5BEFE09E1D4495E6B44CF0A7855946D8E70C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99
yes on one machine (of 4, all win2k) it frequently did exactly what you describe here (failed to finish compact when closing a DDB and protel session completely vanishes in poof) after a lot of frittering we replaced the whole box and now that problem seems cured still don't know if it was hardware or software Protel was no help, they claimed they never heard of this problem and could not reproduce it now on the new box once in a while when you push the SAVE button (of all things!) we get an exception error, the save does not occur and protel has to be killed with the task manager the protel session is still alive (if you click 'IGNORE') and you can draw and do most operations you just can't save the file or quit protel the only good news here is that if you wait unit the timed backup period occurs, it will make a good backup in the designated backup directory this strongly suggests that this too is a DDB problem of some sort maybe these are the reasons protel left DDB behind in DXP Dennis Saputelli Robert M. Wolfe wrote: Yup, On Win2KPro. Same here and random, it does hang, and lately sometimes it even blows you out of Protel while compacting and does not complete the compact so I have to do it manually. But so far no show stopper just very annoying. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic Steve, just for Roger's or your reference, I always close the open DDBs, shut down P99SE SP6, still I have the hung Protel if I check task manager. Not that often but a few times per week. The usual way that I find this is when I logout shutdown at the end of the day and I get a message stating that P99SE SP6 is still running, do I want to close it now. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:05 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] WIN2000 vs P99 vs Spectra vs Camtastic In a message dated 9/3/2002 2:57:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the behaviour of P99SE on Win2k is not that uncommon. I have the hanging P99SE on close (application does not shut down completely) randomly and I know others have mentioned it on the listserver. Does not seem to be a show stopper to anyone though. I'm running 99SE SP6 on W2K. I have seen the hang on shutdown many times, but now I make sure I always close all open designs first (alt-F D) and then close Protel, and I don't have any problem. Steve Hendrix * Tracking #: 1B239D895B925E4EAFD05E476681B299FB24C984 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SV: SV: Hard Look at other Programms
every time i open DXP i feel more stupid and less patient that then previous time i opened it i just don't get it but what's the problem with migrating to win2k? cost? what are you using now, win98? if so that could be part of the reason of your dissatisfaction with 99SE if there is more to it than that please tell re Pulsonix, do they really read protel files and libraries? have you used the software? what are it's compelling features over 99SE? Dennis Saputelli Greg North wrote: Hi all, All of the designers here are very disappointed with the DXP software. Just the fact that we have to migrate all of our engineers to W2K inorder for them to capture their schematics is a disaster! I just got off the phone with Tom Clark who is a Rep for Pulsonix. (I was able to get his number from the Pulsonix website) And I have info being sent to me. The full blown package is $4950 and maintance is about 12% per yr. Also seats of sch capture only are $200. Greg Gregory T. North, C.I.D. Sr. CAD Electrical Designer Engineer Ametek Aerospace Phone: (215) 257-6531 x1632 900 Clymer Ave. Fax: (215) 453-8177 Sellersville, PA. 18960 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Tracking #: F8AAFF090014A44594504B338C8A7F915C65864B * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms
The guy said there had been a rush of demo downloads today from American Protel users - you know who you are :) Geez did that make me laugh I don't doubt it Their site is probably overloaded today Mike Reagan EDSI * Tracking #: FF5458687241DF4685D58A7B3A6D729A3D3C8E47 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues
results were worse than my results in some cases. Perhaps I am too picky but I see no reason for 5 or six power vias near each other all connected by short traces on various layers to tie one pin to the power buss when just one via would have done the job. Several acid traps and traces exiting pads at oddball angles with stairstepping. After reviewing the sample boards, I This is behavior exhibited by the 99SE AR and Advanced Route 3.1 also. It seems Situs is no improvement. If you use the AR, you must resign yourself to manually cleaning up these crazy routes. It is part of my manual post-processing to consolidate power vias and delete stairstep tracks. I say again: Route all your critical nets manually, lock 'em down, and then let AR do the rest. Then clean up after it. My guess is they are still using the Neurorouter code and just don't know how it works, so they cannot improve upon it. But they can give it a new name. I am Situs of Borg. Routing is futile. Your nets will be meandered. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Rob Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues I am not experienced in using the new Situs router but I have tried it with disastrous results. Since I thought I might have been doing something wrong, I loaded the sample boards routed at Altium by what I would have thought to be an experienced Situs user. I posted a list of sample areas to look at on these boards a while ago on the DXP forum. From what I saw, the results were worse than my results in some cases. Perhaps I am too picky but I see no reason for 5 or six power vias near each other all connected by short traces on various layers to tie one pin to the power buss when just one via would have done the job. Several acid traps and traces exiting pads at oddball angles with stairstepping. After reviewing the sample boards, I decided not to mess with Situs again until a few service packs have come out. Overall, I did not see anything in the sample boards to indicate that Situs is an improvement. Rob - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues At 04:23 PM 8/30/2002 -0400, Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote: I probably would pay for SP7 with as long as they met the long list of our requirements also. I too have been put off by the complexities introduced with DXP. If it had been, say, a bug fix for 99SE, at a corresponding price, there is no doubt that I'd be using it. If the additional features had come without greatly confusing the user interface (for one used to 99SE), I'd be wanting them too. We were long awaiting an improved autorouter, and I had heard rumors about how good it was going to be, rivalling Specctra, etc. I haven't seen any comments on the DXP list on Situs except for some information about the design rules it follows, which have not been much improved, i.e., there are apparently still plenty of rules which are ignored. Something is wrong. The unfortunate thing about the DXP release is that the work was invested, it would seem, in advance of a true marketing study, at least of one involving a sufficient number of existing users. Programming for a service pack is one thing, programming for feature improvements may be something else. It is difficult, I'd think, to go back, but it might not be impossible. The theory behind the Client/Server architecture was that the individual modules were separately maintainable. How much the Advanced PCB server was modified to make it into the DXP PCB server, I don't know. I would think that solid software management for a product like Protel would involve continuously fixing bugs, as soon as possible, releasing service packs regularly, and sometimes including feature improvements -- gradually -- as part of the process. A maintenance model allows this, which is probably one reason why Altium has gone that way. The transition, however, has not been handled well. There should never have been such a dead time with no service pack. SP7 should have been released long ago. I can understand the argument that was probably put forth: since we are going to make all these major changes, we need to put all our effort into them instead of fooling around with code that is going to become obsolete anyway. Yet this argument is one that keeps software buggy on into eternity. There is a reason why organisms only change a little DNA at a time! Make too many changes at once, nothing works well any more. So then you have to do all kinds of new software testing, etc., to try to find the bugs that have been introduced with the changes.
Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms
Yes the site is pretty unprofessional. It's a bad first impression. The contacts link is invalid: http://www.pulsonix.com/contacts.htm The ordering page has an email addr, but they couldn't even bother to include a mailto tag to make it easy to contact them. http://www.pulsonix.com/ordering.htm How much is it? Who knows... -Original Message- From: Craig Elison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:14 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms You say these people are very serious about their product. I'm not sure. I found their web site the 20th of February. They were offering a free schematic capture. I downloaded it and sent in an email to get the key. I never got it back. Even after several emails. Your comments interested me. I'm ready to dump Protel 99SE and I will not got to DXP. So I hit their site this morning after I saw your reply. First thing is see is they ended the free schematic in March. Still waiting for the key requested in Feb! Price is a big factor for me so the next thing I looked for was their pricing. I went to the sales link. No pricing I could find. I went to More Information. Using their site index for Prices, Trade-in Prices and Upgrade Prices got Page Not Found errors. I'll keep an eye on them, but I'm not going to even try their demo if I don't know the pricing before hand. I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I also didn't find any info on tech support. Do they have phone support? They are in the UK, but I see they have a rep or two in the states. A unhappy Protel user -Original Message- From: Peder K. Hellegaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SV: Hard Look at other Programms Do yourself a favour: Take a look at the relative new tool called PULSONIX (www.pulsonix.com) Those guys are very serious and the package is low priced but with very good functionality and not to forget: Very stable. In addition, if a user finds a bug (it is software though) and reports it, it is usually fixed within a few hours (and this is the fact) and the user receives the updated files. This is the customer care you always has been looking for. The Pulsonix EDA tool imports design files AND library files from a lot of other EDA tools, and this also works perfectly. From a former Protel VAR -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sendt: 4. september 2002 14:48 Til: Protel EDA Forum Emne: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms Dennis and Waldemar wrote here is one more guy who want to know what you will find out looking for other EDA Software. The Programs I found where either very expensive (unpayable for me) Here is what I have found so far: Orcad PCB: users satisfied with Orcad until Cadence purchased Orcad . OrCad PCB may have licensed routing code and other code from Protel and vice versa, The interfaces are very similar. Also similar in functionality and price, and features. Protel 99SE has an edge with more layers, generally more capability. Both are in the same price range. Both are good capable programs. Cadence has not done much to improve ORCAD layout since purchasing it. Don't look for good support from Orcad unless you plan to drop Orcad layout and upgrade to Cadence tools. Orcad also shares the same buggy autorouter, but the Orcad users I talked to don't know the difference. Maybe Orcad debugged their router. If you want to make OrCad work properly, you need Spectra. PADS/INOVEDA/now MENTOR: Lets face it this is DOS code dressed up to look like a windows program the same approach that Acad did with their programs. It is fairly stable. Commands are awkward, looks like it was designed by Unix programmers. While awkward and limited, it is still a good program. I have seen droves, herds, packs, groups, and allof PADS users switch to Cadence in the past year. Maybe they made a mistake and should have switched to MENTOR. To get a real working setup of PADs be ready to spend some money. I doubt if you can seriously do any PCB work (equal to 99SE) for under 30K. Their new router is fair, lets face it Spectra is still king of the hill.I don't know what MENTOR was thinking buying this Product from Inoveda. They were going out of business anyway, so why pay for any money for them.(Sounds like the Accel deal) PADS offers less features at a higher price than MENTORs EXPEDITON did, I'm not sure how Mentor plans to sell a program with less features at a higher price. ( did I repeat myself, sounds like the Accel deal again) MENTOR EXPEDITION: Guys
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:13 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo BMPTOPCB.EXE can be found in the protel yahoo group. -Original Message- From: Richard Stevense [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:40 PM To: Protel EDA Users Group Subject: [PEDA] Company logo Hello all, I need to add a company logo (just the company name, nothing fancy) to the PCB I've layed out. I put the company name on the TopSolder mask layer and drew a fat trace, that surrounds the name, on the TopPaste layer. Has anyone tried this and does it create a nicely embossed effect on the PCB? I envision a light green name on a somewhat darker green background. One other thing, where can I find the BMPTOPCB.EXE programme? I've looked on the Yahoo Protel users group site and, of course, Protel.com does not carry it any more. Thank-you, Richard Stevense. Calgary, Alberta. ** ** * Tracking #: 3895F9EF1CA3254489BFDE802EAA4EEB4FCF807D * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
On it's way Steve Smith Product Engineer Staco Energy Products Co. Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:56 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:13 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo BMPTOPCB.EXE can be found in the protel yahoo group. -Original Message- From: Richard Stevense [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:40 PM To: Protel EDA Users Group Subject: [PEDA] Company logo Hello all, I need to add a company logo (just the company name, nothing fancy) to the PCB I've layed out. I put the company name on the TopSolder mask layer and drew a fat trace, that surrounds the name, on the TopPaste layer. Has anyone tried this and does it create a nicely embossed effect on the PCB? I envision a light green name on a somewhat darker green background. One other thing, where can I find the BMPTOPCB.EXE programme? I've looked on the Yahoo Protel users group site and, of course, Protel.com does not carry it any more. Thank-you, Richard Stevense. Calgary, Alberta. ** ** * Tracking #: 3895F9EF1CA3254489BFDE802EAA4EEB4FCF807D * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
Ok -Original Message- From: Christopher Rhomberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:00 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Please could you email it to me too as I have Klipper but am having lots of problems with it corrupting 99SE SP6. Regards Chris Rhomberg - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim ** ** * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
Tony could you email to me also, I joined but can't get access to it for some reason. Thanks Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues
At 12:31 PM 9/4/2002 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: I say again: Route all your critical nets manually, lock 'em down, and then let AR do the rest. Then clean up after it. My guess is they are still using the Neurorouter code and just don't know how it works, so they cannot improve upon it. But they can give it a new name. I am Situs of Borg. Routing is futile. Your nets will be meandered. It's a mystery to me. It was well over a year ago that Protel people told me they had seen the new router, it was new code, and it was good. So if the reports are correct that the DXP router is essentially similar to the old, and perhaps the same, I would suspect that for reasons unknown to us the new router has not yet been released. If so, the upgrade cost seems a tad excessive. In any case, I'll take the opportunity in another post under an appropriate subject header to mention a tip that can ease the pain of cleaning up after the autorouter, sometimes overlooked by designers (though it has been described a number of times on this list). (Use Loop Removal). * Tracking #: C04A6BD7084601469667A32909C5397A92A4799F * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
OK -Original Message- From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:35 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Tony could you email to me also, I joined but can't get access to it for some reason. Thanks Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim ** ** * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Re[2]: Hard Look at other Programms
Mike Will you please stop saying that Expedition can't import netlists from other packages. I am currently working on three boards that had their schematics and netlists generated in OrCAD, and am frequently doing the same with designs originating in Protel. Did you work through the example (using a Keyin netlist as the source) that I emailed to you on June 8th? The process (essentially) in OrCAD is to generate a netlist in Integra format, with a package(footprint) specific part value as the Combined property string. Then in Expedition, have a PDB (Parts DataBase) entry for each of the footprints used in the design, and you're ready to start placement. Best regards, Colinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I find it hard to believe you can't take in a netlist though?? MRE Hard to believe its true. I even went to a full day workshop for Mentor, MRE The reps choked when I asked them if it supported an external netlist. I MRE would have purchased the product two months ago if it did. MRE Mike Reagan MRE EDSI * Tracking #: C66CB6917C45FA499803550577FC602C9F62B4EE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
Well, this is a bit long - skip to the bottom if you are busy.. I've been evaluating DXP a little more and I keep finding myself asking why the hell did they do that? I like the PCB printer in 99SE, so I decide to find out what DXP has got instead. I load up a demo PCB and find Fabrication Outputs and Assembly Outputs under the file menu. Under Fabrication Outputs there is Final. Not very obvious what Final is (especially is there is no Draft option) but I click it and get a fancy kind of print preview window. The preview window shows 16 pages. It doesn't tell you what those 16 pages are or what they are called unless you can zoom into the previews and deduce what they are from what will be printed. I think what the hell told DXP to generate these 16 pages and what are they and where are they configured? This print preview window has 3 buttons to control zoom, and even an edit box where I can type in a zoom % (although typing something different into it has no effect on anything). Eventually I discover the only way to do anything but zoom and print in this preview window is from a right click context menu. The menu has a Configuration item, configure what? who knows till you try it. I try it and get this really crap dialog which is the equivalent of the 99SE PCB Printer tree view. It isn't a conventional tree and by default is displayed fully expanded meaning I have a lot of scrolling to do (at least the scroll bar is grey not the pale blue used randomly elsewhere in DXP). Sheesh this is dragging on but there is just so much wrong to describe The tree branches are the printed pages like TopLayer etc and these branches contain the PCB layers to be printed. If I left click on a PCB layer it gets highlighted - cool but the highlight doesn't do anything for you, no Del to delete, no Alt Enter for properties, All you can do is move the highlight up and down with cursor keys. If I click on a Page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I double click on a page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I click on the icon next to the page name nothing seems to happen but actually that name got highlighted without showing anything - maybe because page names are displayed with a different background colour. I know it is highlighted because cursoring up and down takes an extra step for the highlight to pass through the page name. I also know because when (and only when) these page names are invisibly highlighted I can hit + or - to expand or colapse their branch. I can also doubleclick on the icon next to the page name to expand or collapse the branch, however, that also brings up a properties dialog for the page. The properties dialog is pretty similar to the 99SE PCB printer. So I delete some of these pages, which is only possible from their context menu and click OK and click close on the preview and close the project. I open the project, open the PCB, select Final and the same 16 pages are back just like it was. I find this a bit incredible, compared to 99SE configuring and previewing prints is bloody awful and DXP doesn't even save one configuration in the project never mind multiple configurations in PCB printer documents. I believe CAM output is the same. Another gripe is these generated files don't appear in the project pane. Generate drill files and you have to leave DXP and find the report file in Windows. Sometimes the project pane does show Generated text files for some generated files but they simply dissapear the next time you open that project. I am coming to the conclusion that the D in DXP stands for disaster. I am annoyed at the lost of the design database and explorer, a great idea with a bad implimentation. It should have been improved not scrapped. None of my existing designs will convert to DXP without pain, especially for the embedded non-protel documents. I don't think problems like the above where something which worked well in 99SE being crippled by design are going to be fixed in a couple of service packs. I don't think DXP will reach the non-buggyness level of 99SE in a year. The new router seems unimpressive. I would have a lot of re-learning to do. I have to pay for it and pay for ongoing support. I've been using Protel since it was called Tango for DOS. The release of DXP and realiastaion that 99SE is now an unsupported dead end means I have never had more insentive to switch to a different vendor. As the title said Cruch time - do I spend any more time looking at the DXP demo and upcoming SP1 re-learning how to use it or do I spend my time looking at other packages? What do you guys think? Cheers, Terry. * Tracking #: AF14BA9FD37F2E49B06417BA387EF98FCCBA26CE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
have you posted this to the DXP group? if not, would you please? thanks i have the DXP demo on one machine, now expired a licensed version on another machine every time i open one to play with it i get so annoyed i stop within a fairly short time what are they doing and why, why? i think it just must be a whole new team and they just wanted to do it all their way and where does PCAD fit into to all this? Dennis Saputelli Terry Harris wrote: Well, this is a bit long - skip to the bottom if you are busy.. I've been evaluating DXP a little more and I keep finding myself asking why the hell did they do that? I like the PCB printer in 99SE, so I decide to find out what DXP has got instead. I load up a demo PCB and find Fabrication Outputs and Assembly Outputs under the file menu. Under Fabrication Outputs there is Final. Not very obvious what Final is (especially is there is no Draft option) but I click it and get a fancy kind of print preview window. The preview window shows 16 pages. It doesn't tell you what those 16 pages are or what they are called unless you can zoom into the previews and deduce what they are from what will be printed. I think what the hell told DXP to generate these 16 pages and what are they and where are they configured? This print preview window has 3 buttons to control zoom, and even an edit box where I can type in a zoom % (although typing something different into it has no effect on anything). Eventually I discover the only way to do anything but zoom and print in this preview window is from a right click context menu. The menu has a Configuration item, configure what? who knows till you try it. I try it and get this really crap dialog which is the equivalent of the 99SE PCB Printer tree view. It isn't a conventional tree and by default is displayed fully expanded meaning I have a lot of scrolling to do (at least the scroll bar is grey not the pale blue used randomly elsewhere in DXP). Sheesh this is dragging on but there is just so much wrong to describe The tree branches are the printed pages like TopLayer etc and these branches contain the PCB layers to be printed. If I left click on a PCB layer it gets highlighted - cool but the highlight doesn't do anything for you, no Del to delete, no Alt Enter for properties, All you can do is move the highlight up and down with cursor keys. If I click on a Page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I double click on a page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I click on the icon next to the page name nothing seems to happen but actually that name got highlighted without showing anything - maybe because page names are displayed with a different background colour. I know it is highlighted because cursoring up and down takes an extra step for the highlight to pass through the page name. I also know because when (and only when) these page names are invisibly highlighted I can hit + or - to expand or colapse their branch. I can also doubleclick on the icon next to the page name to expand or collapse the branch, however, that also brings up a properties dialog for the page. The properties dialog is pretty similar to the 99SE PCB printer. So I delete some of these pages, which is only possible from their context menu and click OK and click close on the preview and close the project. I open the project, open the PCB, select Final and the same 16 pages are back just like it was. I find this a bit incredible, compared to 99SE configuring and previewing prints is bloody awful and DXP doesn't even save one configuration in the project never mind multiple configurations in PCB printer documents. I believe CAM output is the same. Another gripe is these generated files don't appear in the project pane. Generate drill files and you have to leave DXP and find the report file in Windows. Sometimes the project pane does show Generated text files for some generated files but they simply dissapear the next time you open that project. I am coming to the conclusion that the D in DXP stands for disaster. I am annoyed at the lost of the design database and explorer, a great idea with a bad implimentation. It should have been improved not scrapped. None of my existing designs will convert to DXP without pain, especially for the embedded non-protel documents. I don't think problems like the above where something which worked well in 99SE being crippled by design are going to be fixed in a couple of service packs. I don't think DXP will reach the non-buggyness level of 99SE in a year. The new router seems unimpressive. I would have a lot of re-learning to do. I have to pay for it and pay for ongoing support. I've been using Protel since it was called Tango for DOS. The release of DXP and realiastaion that 99SE is now an unsupported dead end means I have never had more insentive to switch to a different vendor. As the
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Hard Look at other Programms
Colin, My apologies if I am wrong about the netlist. I was unable to do anything with it nor were any Mentor reps able to help me at the time. (JUN-July of this year) I might attend another workshop later this month and am going to work outside of their canned demo and get some factory engineers to help. From my comments you can see that I am leaning towards Expedition anyway. Its price/ performance is unparralled. Mike Reagan - Original Message - From: Colin Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: [PEDA] Re[2]: Hard Look at other Programms Mike Will you please stop saying that Expedition can't import netlists from other packages. I am currently working on three boards that had their schematics and netlists generated in OrCAD, and am frequently doing the same with designs originating in Protel. Did you work through the example (using a Keyin netlist as the source) that I emailed to you on June 8th? The process (essentially) in OrCAD is to generate a netlist in Integra format, with a package(footprint) specific part value as the Combined property string. Then in Expedition, have a PDB (Parts DataBase) entry for each of the footprints used in the design, and you're ready to start placement. Best regards, Colinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I find it hard to believe you can't take in a netlist though?? MRE Hard to believe its true. I even went to a full day workshop for Mentor, MRE The reps choked when I asked them if it supported an external netlist. I MRE would have purchased the product two months ago if it did. MRE Mike Reagan MRE EDSI * Tracking #: C66CB6917C45FA499803550577FC602C9F62B4EE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
Terry, you know what's best for you. To see what other people are doing, have a look at the topic 'SV: Hard Look at other Programms'. From what I have seen so far, your thoughts are in line with a lot of the people in this forum and are definitely in line with mine. Cheers, Igor -Original Message- From: Terry Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2002 11:49 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time? Well, this is a bit long - skip to the bottom if you are busy.. I've been evaluating DXP a little more and I keep finding myself asking why the hell did they do that? I like the PCB printer in 99SE, so I decide to find out what DXP has got instead. I load up a demo PCB and find Fabrication Outputs and Assembly Outputs under the file menu. Under Fabrication Outputs there is Final. Not very obvious what Final is (especially is there is no Draft option) but I click it and get a fancy kind of print preview window. The preview window shows 16 pages. It doesn't tell you what those 16 pages are or what they are called unless you can zoom into the previews and deduce what they are from what will be printed. I think what the hell told DXP to generate these 16 pages and what are they and where are they configured? This print preview window has 3 buttons to control zoom, and even an edit box where I can type in a zoom % (although typing something different into it has no effect on anything). Eventually I discover the only way to do anything but zoom and print in this preview window is from a right click context menu. The menu has a Configuration item, configure what? who knows till you try it. I try it and get this really crap dialog which is the equivalent of the 99SE PCB Printer tree view. It isn't a conventional tree and by default is displayed fully expanded meaning I have a lot of scrolling to do (at least the scroll bar is grey not the pale blue used randomly elsewhere in DXP). Sheesh this is dragging on but there is just so much wrong to describe The tree branches are the printed pages like TopLayer etc and these branches contain the PCB layers to be printed. If I left click on a PCB layer it gets highlighted - cool but the highlight doesn't do anything for you, no Del to delete, no Alt Enter for properties, All you can do is move the highlight up and down with cursor keys. If I click on a Page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I double click on a page name I am suddenly editing the name. If I click on the icon next to the page name nothing seems to happen but actually that name got highlighted without showing anything - maybe because page names are displayed with a different background colour. I know it is highlighted because cursoring up and down takes an extra step for the highlight to pass through the page name. I also know because when (and only when) these page names are invisibly highlighted I can hit + or - to expand or colapse their branch. I can also doubleclick on the icon next to the page name to expand or collapse the branch, however, that also brings up a properties dialog for the page. The properties dialog is pretty similar to the 99SE PCB printer. So I delete some of these pages, which is only possible from their context menu and click OK and click close on the preview and close the project. I open the project, open the PCB, select Final and the same 16 pages are back just like it was. I find this a bit incredible, compared to 99SE configuring and previewing prints is bloody awful and DXP doesn't even save one configuration in the project never mind multiple configurations in PCB printer documents. I believe CAM output is the same. Another gripe is these generated files don't appear in the project pane. Generate drill files and you have to leave DXP and find the report file in Windows. Sometimes the project pane does show Generated text files for some generated files but they simply dissapear the next time you open that project. I am coming to the conclusion that the D in DXP stands for disaster. I am annoyed at the lost of the design database and explorer, a great idea with a bad implimentation. It should have been improved not scrapped. None of my existing designs will convert to DXP without pain, especially for the embedded non-protel documents. I don't think problems like the above where something which worked well in 99SE being crippled by design are going to be fixed in a couple of service packs. I don't think DXP will reach the non-buggyness level of 99SE in a year. The new router seems unimpressive. I would have a lot of re-learning to do. I have to pay for it and pay for ongoing support. I've been using Protel since it was called Tango for DOS. The release of DXP and realiastaion that 99SE is now an unsupported dead end means I have never had more insentive to switch to a different vendor. As the title said Cruch time - do I spend any more time looking at the
Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
At 02:48 AM 5/09/02 +0100, you wrote: ..snip.. As the title said Cruch time - do I spend any more time looking at the DXP demo and upcoming SP1 re-learning how to use it or do I spend my time looking at other packages? What do you guys think? My feelings are very mixed. I have not tried all of the features and have not done much after the beta program finished. I am waiting for the first service pack before I see what has changed since the beta. So when I say what I like or dislike it may be that I have not tried your favorite feature or tested your favorite(!) bug. Likes: 1) query language and reltaed to that the much more powerful design rules 2) Sim post processing is improved 3) New ERC options 4) Integrated libraries should help configuration control Dislikes: 1) speed 2) globals are slower and some things very much harder to work out how to do (but see Likes point 1). 3) Router is very disappointing - I was hoping for a break through here. 4) No SDK released (yet) 5) I think the spreadsheet view should *not* be on the same panel as the filter. 6) ATS 7) Dialogs are not as easily navigated as in P99SE - they may look nicer but I find it harder to find the editable elements. 8) Greater reliance on mouse compared to P99SE - this affects productivity 9) loss of Selected vs Focussed feature in P99SE and no provision for a workable replacement (simply making the system more like other Windows apps is a retrograde step IMO) There are others but these are the major ones I can think of just now. As an indicator - I have started a few new designs in the last week or so. All of these are being done in P99SE. I have a rather down feeling about it. Lots to like but ATS really makes the equation more complex than it used to be. I will re-evaluate after SP1. Ian Wilson * Tracking #: F798CC54297D2F409329F8E4E9D6CD6A24CD0BED * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
Tony, Thanks a bunch trying to actually use yahoo turned challenging. Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo OK -Original Message- From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:35 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Tony could you email to me also, I joined but can't get access to it for some reason. Thanks Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim ** ** * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Company logo
No problem. I already had a yahoo acct a long time ago so it was no big deal. -Original Message- From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:06 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Tony, Thanks a bunch trying to actually use yahoo turned challenging. Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo OK -Original Message- From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:35 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Tony could you email to me also, I joined but can't get access to it for some reason. Thanks Joe - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo I'll do it (I'm emailing the list so he doesn't get a ton of 'em) -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Company logo Does anyone have this BMPTOPCB.EXE file they don't mind emailing to me. I do not wish to join the yahoo group. Tim ** ** * Tracking #: 11EB8FD2379CDD4794054C7C847FE2D99D4FF584 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99 on ebay
So I wonder if this buyer is someone on this list? (Or will be soon?) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2049732337rd=1 * Tracking #: DB9876EC5C36B648905C77F60733DB5FFA704C01 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
