[PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity
I have been trying to get a report out using the SI tool to provide info for an SDRAM interface. I have IBIS models and some results look useful. All the same I am going nuts trying to sort out some less than well documented aspects of the process. An SI report (Menu ReportsSI) tells me that I don't have component models attached. I cannot find any reference to attaching models. Some nets SI will analyze, some it will not. Again no useful documentation. After modifying the layout SI will not analyze nets that it was previously OK with. Any clues as to how to get this thing running properly. ( Incidentally 9000 or not, this is a case where some decent and honest documentation would help. If I can get the thing working I shall compose a process document on how to use it so as to stop colleagues from wasting time. If I can't then I shall be looking at Orcad 9 and SpecctraQuest for the next job. I agree Orcad is clunky but I know that it works from using it in a previous job. Also the Cadence Tech Support can't be faulted. It looks as though I was mistaken to believe the Protel hype. For sure it doesn't tempt me to try DXP. ) Robbie * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity
This came up not so long ago. Protel has problems with certain traces when they contain loops in the paths etc. Otherwise in the signal integrity module, you should be able to select the nets and get a list of the components on the net. From that you can change the component model used. It doesn't do too bad a job on particular nets. however it's far from faultless, and the results obtained should be taken with a grain of salt (make sure you have a salt shaker on hand, you'll go through many grains). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity I have been trying to get a report out using the SI tool to provide info for an SDRAM interface. I have IBIS models and some results look useful. All the same I am going nuts trying to sort out some less than well documented aspects of the process. An SI report (Menu ReportsSI) tells me that I don't have component models attached. I cannot find any reference to attaching models. Some nets SI will analyze, some it will not. Again no useful documentation. After modifying the layout SI will not analyze nets that it was previously OK with. Any clues as to how to get this thing running properly. ( Incidentally 9000 or not, this is a case where some decent and honest documentation would help. If I can get the thing working I shall compose a process document on how to use it so as to stop colleagues from wasting time. If I can't then I shall be looking at Orcad 9 and SpecctraQuest for the next job. I agree Orcad is clunky but I know that it works from using it in a previous job. Also the Cadence Tech Support can't be faulted. It looks as though I was mistaken to believe the Protel hype. For sure it doesn't tempt me to try DXP. ) Robbie * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling
any fool can write ISO procedures badly, for ISO to work well for a company then the procedures must be written in such a way as to help the company in doing its business rather than hindering it! Dennis Saputelli wrote: i told my story before but ... i had a board once put on hold and missed a major deadline ISO shop the called and said that my outside dimension string read 5.000 inches but when they measured the drawn outline it measured 4.999 inches i was out of the office by the time the 'deviation exception' form was filled out and signed off by them a whole week was lost i pointed out that the routing tolerance was .005 inches anyway, why did you put it on hold? they said because we are ISO i told them i was sorry to hear that the same junk is going on with my sheet metal suppliers now Dennis Saputelli Yves Dubois wrote: The problem with ISO is that it protects incompetent engineers and transform them into suppose to be intelligent managers. Those people hide behind the ISO monster that they create to keep there job. On the long term When all businesses will be ISO (I hope not) what will be the point. They will have to invent another system so that they can be ISO. May be we can start a naming contest for that futuristic new system: here is a suggestion: STUPID. System Tracking Universal Procedure Integrated Documentation Not Bad :) Yves Dubois PCB designer Raytron LTD Montreal - Original Message - From: Terry Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:08:09 -0400, you wrote: The idea behind ISO9000 is just plain common sense (I put common in quotes because common sense really isn't very common). So why do we need a trendy business school graduate buzzword to invoke it? Because the trendy business school graduates need to justify their existence and oversized paychecks and golden parachutes somehow ;-) The idea behind ISO9000 is self propagation. It spreads down the supply chain like an infectious disease. I wonder what percentage of companies would have ISO9000 were it not for ISO9000 induced pressure from thier customers? Single digit is my guess. Perhaps that is an indication of its real value. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling
In favour of GOOD documents how about; Why Are No Knowledge Ever Retained Chris Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] com cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling 09-Jun-2003 01:33 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum any fool can write ISO procedures badly, for ISO to work well for a company then the procedures must be written in such a way as to help the company in doing its business rather than hindering it! Dennis Saputelli wrote: i told my story before but ... i had a board once put on hold and missed a major deadline ISO shop the called and said that my outside dimension string read 5.000 inches but when they measured the drawn outline it measured 4.999 inches i was out of the office by the time the 'deviation exception' form was filled out and signed off by them a whole week was lost i pointed out that the routing tolerance was .005 inches anyway, why did you put it on hold? they said because we are ISO i told them i was sorry to hear that the same junk is going on with my sheet metal suppliers now Dennis Saputelli Yves Dubois wrote: The problem with ISO is that it protects incompetent engineers and transform them into suppose to be intelligent managers. Those people hide behind the ISO monster that they create to keep there job. On the long term When all businesses will be ISO (I hope not) what will be the point. They will have to invent another system so that they can be ISO. May be we can start a naming contest for that futuristic new system: here is a suggestion: STUPID. System Tracking Universal Procedure Integrated Documentation Not Bad :) Yves Dubois PCB designer Raytron LTD Montreal - Original Message - From: Terry Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:08:09 -0400, you wrote: The idea behind ISO9000 is just plain common sense (I put common in quotes because common sense really isn't very common). So why do we need a trendy business school graduate buzzword to invoke it? Because the trendy business school graduates need to justify their existence and oversized paychecks and golden parachutes somehow ;-) The idea behind ISO9000 is self propagation. It spreads down the supply chain like an infectious disease. I wonder what percentage of companies would have ISO9000 were it not for ISO9000 induced pressure from thier customers? Single digit is my guess. Perhaps that is an indication of its real value. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity some self help
Bevan Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] .comcc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity 09-Jun-2003 11:12 AM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum This came up not so long ago. Protel has problems with certain traces when they contain loops in the paths etc. Otherwise in the signal integrity module, you should be able to select the nets and get a list of the components on the net. From that you can change the component model used. It doesn't do too bad a job on particular nets. however it's far from faultless, and the results obtained should be taken with a grain of salt (make sure you have a salt shaker on hand, you'll go through many grains). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity I have been trying to get a report out using the SI tool to provide info for an SDRAM interface. I have IBIS models and some results look useful. All the same I am going nuts trying to sort out some less than well documented aspects of the process. An SI report (Menu ReportsSI) tells me that I don't have component models attached. I cannot find any reference to attaching models. Some nets SI will analyze, some it will not. Again no useful documentation. After modifying the layout SI will not analyze nets that it was previously OK with. Any clues as to how to get this thing running properly. ( Incidentally 9000 or not, this is a case where some decent and honest documentation would help. If I can get the thing working I shall compose a process document on how to use it so as to stop colleagues from wasting time. If I can't then I shall be looking at Orcad 9 and SpecctraQuest for the next job. I agree Orcad is clunky but I know that it works from using it in a previous job. Also the Cadence Tech Support can't be faulted. It looks as though I was mistaken to believe the Protel hype. For sure it doesn't tempt me to try DXP. ) Robbie * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity - self help
My apologies, I jumped the gun earlier and sent in error. I have carefully inspected the routes and no sign of loops anywhere. The analyzer seems to have particular problems with T networks. I have cured one instance of this by removing the route, deleting the net, creating a new net and rerouting it. Another net is failing and the screening utility reports cannot analyze Open Collector output. No mention of open collector anywhere in the setup. I certainly haven't told it so. Another computer, running Protel, was able to analyze this route after extracting the appropriate IBIS buffers. It made no difference to the other failing route that I mentioned! Also, I see what you mean about veracity. The plot tools, screen utility and DRC will produce wildly different results from each other. This is partly explained by the note describing worst case node analysis. There again, I tried every node on some tracks and still got differing resullts. I have been able to get some useful indicators but I am looking forward ( possible trepidation ) to starting up the PCB. Robbie Bevan Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] .comcc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity 09-Jun-2003 11:12 AM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum This came up not so long ago. Protel has problems with certain traces when they contain loops in the paths etc. Otherwise in the signal integrity module, you should be able to select the nets and get a list of the components on the net. From that you can change the component model used. It doesn't do too bad a job on particular nets. however it's far from faultless, and the results obtained should be taken with a grain of salt (make sure you have a salt shaker on hand, you'll go through many grains). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Protel Signal Integrity I have been trying to get a report out using the SI tool to provide info for an SDRAM interface. I have IBIS models and some results look useful. All the same I am going nuts trying to sort out some less than well documented aspects of the process. An SI report (Menu ReportsSI) tells me that I don't have component models attached. I cannot find any reference to attaching models. Some nets SI will analyze, some it will not. Again no useful documentation. After modifying the layout SI will not analyze nets that it was previously OK with. Any clues as to how to get this thing running properly. ( Incidentally 9000 or not, this is a case where some decent and honest documentation would help. If I can get the thing working I shall compose a process document on how to use it so as to stop colleagues from wasting time. If I can't then I shall be looking at Orcad 9 and SpecctraQuest for the next job. I agree Orcad is clunky but I know that it works from using it in a previous job. Also the Cadence Tech Support can't be faulted. It looks as though I was mistaken to believe the Protel hype. For sure it doesn't tempt me to try DXP. ) Robbie * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:33:37 +0100, Chris Lowe wrote: any fool can write ISO procedures badly, for ISO to work well for a company then the procedures must be written in such a way as to help the company in doing its business rather than hindering it! Shame having a fool writing the procedures doesn't preclude ISO9000 approval. As a customer what does having ISO9000 approval tell me about a supplier? Sod all - but it is much easier to bullshit your way through your own ISO9000 approval by deciding to only buy from ISO9000 approved suppliers. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling
I have to agree with you here. All the same I don't really care what the managers do with our engineering docs so long as the documents are effective and assist the work. At the same time, dealing with suppliers whose service has been limp, I have been able to get a lot of leverage and a hot line to the CEO by questioning ISO credentials. If no one questions accreditation and pours scorn on the process then don't expect it to serve you either. etc. Terry Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] me.com cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fw: A little OT - ISO9000 was :PCB labelling 09-Jun-2003 04:36 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:33:37 +0100, Chris Lowe wrote: any fool can write ISO procedures badly, for ISO to work well for a company then the procedures must be written in such a way as to help the company in doing its business rather than hindering it! Shame having a fool writing the procedures doesn't preclude ISO9000 approval. As a customer what does having ISO9000 approval tell me about a supplier? Sod all - but it is much easier to bullshit your way through your own ISO9000 approval by deciding to only buy from ISO9000 approved suppliers. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
