Chris,
Go to http://www.connecteda.com/ I wrote an article for ELECTRA that may help you
route your design. This is not an advertisement for Electra, I am just sharing my
knowledge.
Mike Reagan
EDSI
Frederick MD
-- Original Message --
From: Chris
Chris,
In general:
- route manually all important nets
- fanout manually all power pins
- run the autoroute from there.
Many people complain about the poor results. You can
never get as good layour as you'd do it manually but
it also depends on how you'll set the autorouter.
You'll have to
I have a large? project I am trying to route with DXP 2004. This is my
first project using DXP, although I have spent time with test designs and
tutorials.
The big SMT parts of my design are four 34x34 BGAs @ 1mm spacing and 24
160-pin 0.8mm spacing connectors. I am planning to escape two
Just tried out the autorouter, the example autorouter 'board 1' routed in 29
seconds.
_
Brian Guralnick
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] New PC
Autoroute example board #3, 5 min, 20 seconds. (CPU set to 3 GHz, mp3
playing in the background.)
_
Brian Guralnick
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: [PEDA
-Original Message-
From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:04 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter speed, (was New PC tested with
Protel for at least 1 month now...)
Just tried out the autorouter, the example autorouter
.
_
Brian Guralnick
- Original Message -
From: John A. Ross [RSDTV] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter speed, (was New PC tested with Protel for at
least 1 month now...)
-Original
.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
no joke
i know it is a tall order (big
.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
no joke
i know it is a tall
Dennis Saputelli wrote:
what you say is true (good products ruined)
but it is too late
in other words this is the M.O. of biz today
so wishing it were otherwise makes no difference
Well, remember that only publicly-traded corporations can be
bought out by force. A privately-held corporation
At 14:18 21.01.2004 -0600, you wrote:
Dennis Saputelli wrote:
what you say is true (good products ruined)
but it is too late
in other words this is the M.O. of biz today
so wishing it were otherwise makes no difference
Well, remember that only publicly-traded corporations can be
bought out by
Thomas,
I presume 4/4 is 4mil tracks with 4mil clearances etc, etc...
TC
-Original Message-
From: Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 January 2004 12:27 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
Please excuse my ignorance, what are 4/4
: Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
Dennis Saputelli wrote:
what you say is true (good products ruined)
but it is too late
in other words this is the M.O. of biz today
so wishing
I call that the Dumbass touch. :)
Michael Badillo
QT, Inc.
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2004/01/21 Wed PM 04:25:52 EST
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
Well, remember that only publicly-traded corporations can be
bought out
Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Well, remember that only publicly-traded corporations can be
bought out by force. A privately-held corporation that doesn't
want to be bought, can't be bought.
I wasn't commenting about whether or not they wanted to be bought. It's
entirely conceivable that
On 10:01 AM 22/01/2004, Jon Elson said:
The culprits are the buyers, who in many cases,
don't have the business sense that God gave to a rock.
UMM, anyone we know? Like Altium?
I know the sentiment but ...
Does anyone know which CAE companies are growing fastest? I assume Altium
would be up
Hello All,
I wish to share my excitement on new autorouter for Protel. The router is from
konekt.com, named ELECTRA. Electra is available in several configurations, but I wish
to share that I spent a considerable amount of time baselining this software. The
router accepts DSN files,
Mike,
This is a separate and not the integrated replacement for Situs, right?
Joe
- Original Message -
From: edsi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
Hello All,
I wish to share my excitement on new autorouter
what does it cost ?
how does it like BGAs?
does it still convert all the via holes to 28 or is that a protel bug?
maybe altium should give up and just buy the ELECTRA company ?
ds
edsi wrote:
Hello All,
I wish to share my excitement on new autorouter for Protel. The router is from
Joe and Dennis,
This company has no affiliation with Altium. Yes I agree ELECTRA is the routing
solution for all of Altium's products.
Dennis, it will do BGAs, it will do it all. When importing back from the router, it
exhibits the same chararteristics as Spectra. Every via is converted to 28
Hi Joe,
Yes, not related to Altium, see this link
for details. Says pricing starting from
$600.00. looks like that is for double
sided boards.
http://www.konekt.com/
Regards,
Darren
-Original Message-
From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mike,
This is a separate
On 05:49 AM 21/01/2004, edsi said:
Hello All,
I wish to share my excitement on new autorouter for Protel. The router is
from konekt.com, named ELECTRA. Electra is available in several
configurations, but I wish to share that I spent a considerable amount of
time baselining this software. The
20/01/2004 19:28:34, Dennis Saputelli
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what does it cost ?
Dunno yet.
how does it like BGAs?
It seems to have just routed my double-sided, densely-packed
BGA board from hell, that even Specctra hates. It took a couple of
hours, and barfed on some of the rules in my
Ian,
The dsn file you create must be 100 percent Spectra compatible. There are some quirks
to every software packageSpectra has a few and if not followed both Spectra and
Electra will not initialize. If you are having some difficulty initilizing a file,
send it to me and I will take a
$3K for the full version seems quite reasonable if it will do what
spectra does
now we just need a router that will do 4/4 around BGAs and then
switch to 5/5 or 8/8 outside that region! -:)
ds
edsi wrote:
Joe and Dennis,
This company has no affiliation with Altium. Yes I agree ELECTRA is
And add 6/6 in between to smooth the transition.
Are you sure you are joking here? :)
Igor
-Original Message-
From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 January 2004 11:48 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
$3K for the full version seems
-Original Message-
From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 January 2004 11:48 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
$3K for the full version seems quite reasonable if it will do what
spectra does
now we just need a router
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
And add 6/6 in between to smooth the transition.
Are you sure you are joking here? :)
Igor
--
___
Integrated Controls, Inc. Tel: 415-647-0480 EXT 107
2851 21st Street
At 04:10 PM 10/16/2003, Chacon Simon, Geoffrey wrote:
get-archive proteledaforum subject router
Well, partly to note that Geoffry can search the archive at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
and partly to test the PEDA list, I'm sending this message.
(there was another archive
get-archive proteledaforum subject router
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*
* Forum
Gary,
Personally I don't have much experience with the Protel autorouter. But if
you really intend to use it in your setup: Why don't you let the router
just use the outer layers for routing and do the rest manually on the
inner layers? This way you have much more control over your power
Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter questions:
I have a couple of questions about the autorouter and
multilayer boards.
I know everyone will say to manually route it, and I will
probably end
up doing it manually, but is there a way to use the autorouter and
specify the preferred layer
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:38 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential Pairs.
Actually guys,
Don't fight over the award yet, because he isn't really
saying what you
think he is saying
noise environment, the differential pair spacing
cannot be ignored. Once again, be careful.
Regards,
Fred A Rupinski
- Original Message -
From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
]
http://www.norsat.com
Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000
certification
-Original Message-
From: Fred A Rupinski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:22 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential
Brad,
See below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential Pairs.
Jami,
you seem to be applying the term differential impedance
- Original Message -
From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential Pairs - A FLAWED PREMISE
snip
. . . I simply intended that it was not of a concern
Jami,
I don't think that I or Lee are mixing apples and oranges. To me
this article is so clear and comprehendible , I just don't see what you are
seeing.
Anyway, if you think Lee is wrong then you should discuss it with
him. It is not my task to defend him.
Sincerely,
Brad
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential Pairs.
Jami,
I don't think that I or Lee are mixing apples and oranges. To me
this article is so clear and comprehendible , I just don't see what you
are
seeing.
Anyway, if you think Lee is wrong then you should discuss it with
him
Surely this is OT now - what about any further discussion be held off this
list. The forum admin has already mentioned that list membership is falling...
Ian
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:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc)
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter and Differential Pairs.
Surely this is OT now - what about any further discussion be held off this
list. The forum admin has already mentioned that list membership is falling...
Ian
:
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter just
stops...
11/06/2002 15:53
Please respond
... doesn't crash, just stops:
On a fairly dense PCB, set up for 14 layers (8 signal, 6 power/ground) on a
5/5 design rule, I'm seeing strange router behaviour.
The router happily goes through the SMD fanout, memory pattern routers but
part way through the push 'n' shove pass it does a DRC and
anyone know definitively:
1]
if i lock preroutes and then do not check 'lock all preroutes' in the
route all dialog
what will happen?
it seems to change some of them
2]
does 'automatically remove loops' check box have any effect on the
autorouter?
Dennis Saputelli
--
or does it maybe mean 'lock all *locked* preroutes' ??
Dennis Saputelli
Dennis Saputelli wrote:
anyone know definitively:
1]
if i lock preroutes and then do not check 'lock all preroutes' in the
route all dialog
what will happen?
it seems to change some of them
2]
does
At 02:05 PM 3/1/2002 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote:
2]
does 'automatically remove loops' check box have any effect on the
autorouter?
I would be astonished to find that it had any effect whatever.
automatically remove loops only affects loops being created during manual
routing. It does not
On 10:13 AM 19/01/2002 -0800, Brian Sherer said:
1) Protel doesn't flag buffer overruns at all, in any server. It can occur
when
for instance
multiple Polygon Pours are used instead of Split Planes on a multilayer
design.
It seems
that Polygons are handled as a multiplicity of primitives, while
Warning
Unable to process data:
multipart/related;boundary==_NextPart_000_00DC_01C1A0CC.43582FF0
Hi, John-
In my experience, the two likeliest possibilities are 1) database buffer
overrun, and
2) phantom primitives that no longer exist but are being treated as real.
1) Protel doesn't flag buffer overruns at all, in any server. It can occur
when
for instance
multiple Polygon Pours are
: Brian Sherer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:13 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter Stability Problems
Hi, John-
In my experience, the two likeliest possibilities are 1) database buffer
overrun, and
2) phantom primitives that no longer exist
At 10:13 AM 1/19/2002 -0800, Brian Sherer wrote:
It seems that Polygons are handled as a multiplicity of primitives, while
Split Planes are handled as
single entities. Database size seems to grow exponentially if Polygon
Pours are used.
This is not just an appearance? Pours, by definition,
At 12:16 PM 1/19/2002 -0600, John Whittaker wrote:
Have you heard about the upcoming Protel Release - 'Phoenix'? Will this
improve upon the autorouter?
It is a near certainty. As a completely rewritten router, we expect, it may
have some bugs, but I also suspect that we will be very glad to
The new router coming, we are told, might be a more serious competitor to
Specctra. If this is true, then the price increases Protel might be well
worth it. Even if the router was not as good as Specctra but was
substantially better than the current router, it might still be worth it.
So we are
On 10:30 PM 18/11/2001 -1100, Douglas McDonald said:
The new router coming, we are told, might be a more serious competitor to
Specctra. If this is true, then the price increases Protel might be well
worth it. Even if the router was not as good as Specctra but was
substantially better than the
At 11:42 PM 11/17/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Abdul, have you tried using a trackball and wrist rest?
Well, yes. I prefer a mouse. What I described about a frozen shoulder was
about five years ago. I had already purchased a good chair -- highly
recommended, though one does not
have a return of invest in a short time.
Georg
-Ursprungliche Nachricht-
Von: Steve Baldwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Samstag, 17. November 2001 02:39
An: Protel EDA Forum
Betreff: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
$1K a year, I'd think Mr. Baggett could afford for a tool rapidly
being
- Anyway, I'm sure, that to work 'together' with an autorouter saves you
a
lot of time and you have a return of invest in a short time.
I agree with George,
If you are laying boards out all of the time Spectra will pay for itself in
a year. It is that fast and that good ! I lay boards
- You cannot expect, that you push a button and get the ready done board
you
thinking of.
Unless you are a new Customer or you work in Marketing for the Software
supplier...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To
On the other hand, today we have carpal tunnel syndrome and I got a frozen
left shoulder from hours of having my left hand hovering over the keyboard
while the right hand moved the mouse. Don't try this one at home, it took
a
year of physical therapy to unfreeze the shoulder.
Abdul, have you
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's to messy. Perhaps I'm not setting
it up properly. What do you people do?
Tim Fifield
* * * * * * * * * * *
: 16. marraskuuta 2001 16:07
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's to messy. Perhaps I'm not setting
I don't even use it for small designs. I tried it once
and found it useless. Admittedly I do strictly 2 layer
designs. It might be useful for multilayer designs though.
Rene
--
http://www.ibrtses.com
Tim Fifield wrote:
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: Tim Fifield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Form [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB
designs?
Do
by the sender do not necessarily reflect Freedom
Scientific corporate policy.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 09:07
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large
]
To: Protel EDA Form [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB
designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's
: Sean James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
I've never have used autorouters. I'm from the old school, where I cut my
teeth with hand taping.
Sean James
PCB Designer
Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc
- Original Message -
From: Sean James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Autorouter
I've never have used autorouters. I'm from the old school, where I cut my
teeth with hand taping.
Sean James
PCB Designer
Tim Fifield wrote:
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's to messy. Perhaps I'm not setting
it up properly. What do you people do?
I have
At 12:04 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
When good folks like Abdul, bless his heart,
assert that Protel is a good value even at $8K, they should keep in mind
that some organizations do more than PCB layout for hire.
Certainly. I don't need simulation, PLD programming, etc. It
At 12:04 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Once one of the Mechs asked what software I used to connect the pads
together on the CAD system. I told him I was using the Bago-router. He
thought I was being serious and asked what the Bago-router was. I replied
It's a 100%
Autorouter?
Whats an autorouter?
You mean you there's something besides black tape and #16 blades?
JaMi Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
$1K a year, I'd think Mr. Baggett could afford for a tool rapidly
being improved. Obviously, if it were not being improved, even $1
would be too much!
To me, this is the crux of the matter. Pay your money now and
wait and see what you get for it. An alternative would be put your
$1k into
Not doing anything too large, but mostly use autorouter, with some manual
pre-routing. 300+ components, SMT thru-hole, 4-layer, mixed
analog+digital. On the dense side (for me), 1200 pads on 5x7 board -- I'm
happy to let the autorouter find a way! (Usually gets it about 98%.)
-Original
Wow thanks!! I would never have found that :-) It was indeed a rogue
footprint, protel couldn't be a bit more helpful though could it ;-) i had
to remove each footprint until it worked like you suggested.
many thanks
Rich
Hello Richard,
I have had this problem once before and found
: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:38 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] autorouter
Hi guys,
Can anyone explain why the autorouter is giving me this error message
please?
one or more connections cannot be routed due to design rule violations
this happens even if i try to just route a single
Hi guys,
Can anyone explain why the autorouter is giving me this error message
please?
one or more connections cannot be routed due to design rule violations
this happens even if i try to just route a single component or net as well
as the whole board. i have done a done a complete drc (and
-
From: Richard Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:08 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] autorouter
Hi guys,
Can anyone explain why the autorouter is giving me this error message
please?
one or more connections cannot be routed due to design rule violations
do you have your layers setup in the DRC'er?
Scott
-Original Message-
From: Michael Reynolds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:15 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: [PEDA] autorouter will not use all signal layers
Hi,
Protel99SE autorouter seems to be using
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