Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jason Morgan
SNIP A LOT Michael, First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they are still unacceptable) The only reason we are using it at all,

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Michael Reagan
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:03 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) SNIP A LOT Michael, First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jason Morgan
The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix. Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least without NDA, thanks for the offer anyway. I can say that there are about:- 1100 components

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread rlamoreaux
Initially on the new machine all printing activity from within Protel would cause a crash, from experience we know that protel is very sensitive to graphics cards (surely not the fault of protel), so changing it sorted some of the crashes (its now the same as the first machine)

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread rlamoreaux
So we've got the same files on the same everything, what's left? Protel is sensitive to PC hardware, surely not.. It's possible even though it gets less likely with newer versions of Windows. On the other hand Protel and most windows programs are sensitive to DLLs. Protel is more

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
, November 19, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix. Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 01:03 PM 11/19/01 +, Jason Morgan wrote: [...] Michael, First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they are still unacceptable)

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jason Morgan
- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 November 2001 16:41 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) Explain why a fresh re-install of 2000 + sp2, then Protel +sp6 crashes on several operations, even on first run. Explain why

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Chris Mackensen
most of this memory stuff also has ECC (error correction code) of some sort that should be fault tolerant on the board/chip/asic level (not the software/application level)... I don't know much more about it, but if in the software, you assign a memory pointer incorrectly and then try to use it,

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Phil So
It's possible. PC hardware can exhibit problems. In all those MB of RAM, if a few bits flake out, it can crash a program. New PCs are on the absolute bleeding edge, which means some blood (and sweat and tears) is bound to be spilt somewhere. If Protel is the largest app (with your

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Michael Reagan
What might be interesting would be a survey in which we describe what we have in our systems, in terms of hardware and configuration, plus our experience with crashes. It might be possible to analyze such data to identify graphics cards, for example, that work, and those that don't. Right

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Tony Karavidas
] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) SNIP A LOT Michael, First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they are still unacceptable

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Fred A Rupinski
- Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) What might be interesting would be a survey in which we describe what we have

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 04:29 PM 11/19/01 +, Jason Morgan wrote: The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix. (1) They have said that before when there was an easy fix. Not always, of course, but it is highly

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Dennis Saputelli
-Original Message- From: Jason Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:03 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) SNIP A LOT Michael, First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread rlamoreaux
] on 11/19/2001 01:09:00 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Rob LaMoreaux/DSPT) Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) Nice idea, but I don't think errant dram bits hunt and seek just Protel

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jon Elson
Jason Morgan wrote: Protel crashes, its protel's fault (even you admit that). Protel still crashes on a machine running Win 95, which is strongly NOT recommended. I also have it on a machine running Win 2000, and it is much more reliable. Can't clearly say this is Protel's fault! As for

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jon Elson
Jason Morgan wrote: The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix. Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least without NDA, thanks for the offer anyway. I can say that there

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jon Elson
Jason Morgan wrote: Nice idea, but I don't think errant dram bits hunt and seek just Protel, if the dram were faulty, I'd expect 2K (or any component of it) to dump at least some of the time, also the bist would be likely to fail... No, the self test detects functioning memory as different

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Jon Elson
Chris Mackensen wrote: most of this memory stuff also has ECC (error correction code) of some sort that should be fault tolerant on the board/chip/asic level (not the software/application level)... I don't know much more about it, but if in the software, you assign a memory pointer

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Tony Karavidas
Actually most memory does NOT have ECC. Tony -Original Message- From: Chris Mackensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:25 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) most of this memory stuff also has ECC

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:44:15 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: Sure, the memory bus is pretty well characterized, but all memory chips come off a line where they are tested, and some percentage of them have bad rows and columns. The memory testing is not really rigorous, although most makers retest the

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Actually, the high speed digital testers employed by the memory manufacturers FULLY test memory modules over their rated speed and voltage ranges. Usually any problems that occur after the module leaves the factory are due to handling, installation or motherboard related issues (timing,

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Tony Karavidas
Valley h/w types that KNOW what static can do to parts. Tony -Original Message- From: Matt Pobursky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:54 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D) On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:44:15

Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)

2001-11-19 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 04:53 PM 11/19/01 -0600, Matt Pobursky wrote: Actually, the high speed digital testers employed by the memory manufacturers FULLY test memory modules over their rated speed and voltage ranges. Usually any problems that occur after the module leaves the factory are due to handling, installation