Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread JaMi Smith
- Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. As others have told you, there are reasons some programs misbehave when they are not the root cause.

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Robert M. Wolfe
Darryl, I guess you have not seen the VeriBest (I mean Mentor Expedition) Router and interactive capability, In my opinion only, Specctra can't even come close. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Darryl Newberry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Igor Gmitrovic
Vincent, My two bit(che)s in reply: See inserts Igor -Original Message- From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 6:42 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! Darryl Newberry wrote: Ah,

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Aiden Dalley
Has Rhys got a new mobile? I haven't been able to get in contact with him -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 4:25 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Original Message -

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread JaMi Smith
Robert, There are a couple of different VeryBest (which was originally Cadnetix) packages being offered by Mentor. Is the Expedition one that you are talking about the entry level one for about $10K. JaMi * * * * * * - Original Message - From: Robert M. Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I can see it now, you're probably one of those guys that sits clearly on one side of the hardware/software fence and blames the 'other side' when there is a problem. Since I happen to develop hardware AND software, I've seen it happen too many times where I think the problem might be in hardware

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Yeah, I understand the posts. Maybe Protel and only Protel crash with the Intellimouse driver because Protel and only Protel is executing some parameter of the driver that is improperly coded IN THE DRIVER. Maybe Protel is requesting more data from the driver and its queue is getting overrun. I

Re: [PEDA] AW: DXP Discussion

2002-08-01 Thread Gütlein, Ralf
Abd ul, So this means you are back. How is Lucia? As I recall, 'to bag' by word means 'to put sth. in a bag'. In colloquial language this may stand for 'to snap' or 'to grab', but in different countries there may be different flavors of what it may mean. 'Abandon' makes also sense esp. if

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. As others have told you, there are reasons some

[PEDA] Protel componet request

2002-08-01 Thread Kiba Dempsey
Hi all, Have any of you used the Hitachi 3048F microprocessor, if so could you send me a copy of to schematic component and the PCB so I can add this you my library.. Yours hopefully, Kiba. * Tracking #:

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread John Ross
-Original Message- From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 01 August 2002 21:42 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! design data to dozens of unknown PCB vendors? Or half-assed SPICE and SI simulations

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread ga
You make your point very clear, Ian. I am with you. Concerning the bug list you manage: Did you add the bug in gerber generation of renamed layers and the bug in translating layer information to Specctra to the list, which I described some weeks ago? I never received any comment to these mails.

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
It is not only that the time/date are wrong. Quite often members produce an new message by pressing reply to a selected one and then change the subject line. The reference however is still there. There are newsreaders that also sort by referenced subject, then the whole subject tree is mixed up.

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
A pragmatic approach : When JaMi would reveal his adress, we could send him a new mouse and close this suject. They are in the order of 20$. Rene Tony Karavidas wrote: I can see it now, you're probably one of those guys that sits clearly on one side of the hardware/software fence and

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread Wojciech Oborski
Ian Wilson wrote: A few people seem to have incorrect timezone settings or maybe the date or time on their PCs is incorrect. This is only a small point but messages are not sort in Eudora (in date/time order) correctly. Anyone else see the same thing? Rene Tschaggelar wrote: It is not only

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
-Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:59 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,000. Hmmm,

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. Most board tools are programmed by people that have never made a board in their life. And layout people wouldn't be caught dead writing programs. . but then

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 08:57 AM 1/08/2002 -0400, Andrew Jenkins said: -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:59 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Get

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 09:20 AM 2/08/2002 -0400, vincent mail said: Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. Most board tools are programmed by people that have never made a board in their life. And layout people wouldn't

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
whoa . thansk for noting . my clock and time zone where correct but my date was one day ahead. and since i only need to know the time to figure out when to go home :-) changed the date now Ian Wilson wrote: Hello all, A few people seem to have incorrect timezone settings or maybe the

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
ok . open any electronics component catalog. ( digikey , mouser , avnet , farnell ,newark arrow )and look at parts you fill find things like 50 mils 25 mils 100 mils for lead pitch and widths. and then look at the equivalent in millimeters. Which numbers would you rather key in to create a

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. Most board tools are programmed by people that have never made a board in their life. And layout people wouldn't be caught dead writing programs. A number of

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread John Haddy
For me, the vast majority of components are hard metric specified! I do a lot of fine pitch SMD. As has been noted before on this forum, if Protel had a hard metric base unit in the database it could still provide imperial entry for those that live in backward countries :-) but with the

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
No, there are newsreaders that can sort by thread, by time/date, by sender and so on. They become mixed up when the time/date is not right, meaning the reply is sorted before the question. The same holds for the reference. When you create a 'new' message by pressing reply to something and change

[PEDA] Free?h

2002-08-01 Thread John Ross
-Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 01 August 2002 18:34 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer I don't think any of us can complain that Protel went the extra mile

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
-Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I don't think any of us can complain that Protel went the extra mile and offered SP5 and SP6 free. Offered for free? How very nice. I feel really warm and fuzzy IMO, offer for free, or any other tacitly

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
I wonder if the software can tell, during installation, which version you actually had and refuse to install if it's not the upgrade jump you paid for? IMO, I think it's a shady business practice to charge someone more for an upgrade just because they skipped a version. That's the same as

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:40:54 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar wrote: My distributor told me yesterday, that ATS was additional to the usual upgradeability. Meaning you can get DXP whenever you want. The price increases with the number of versions you're behind. Same as when you now upgrade a 2.8 to 99SE,

[PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Phillip Stevens
The main reason I switched to Protel was to get away from Tango Total Support. At the time, Protel was a breath of fresh air. It's Service packs on-line. It's Part libraries on-line. No yearly charges to keep these available. I for one, feel *strongly* betrayed by the ATS program. It's not

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Frank Gilley
Vincent, Please change your system clock. Today is Thursday in the land of -4:00 Thank you very much, Frank At 09:20 AM 8/2/2002 -0400, you wrote: Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. Most

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
most of the maps here show 'here be monsters' if you leave the continent :-) :-) ( bg smile ) * Tracking #: 32EB36542822AC47B9B364FCE3A184FFCE1ABE38 *

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
Ian Wilson wrote: On 09:20 AM 2/08/2002 -0400, vincent mail said: Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. Most board tools are programmed by people that have never made a board in their life.

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
Isn't it the other way round ? Having bought the last version you're regarded as 'good' customer and get a higher discount than another one that bought something 10 years back ? Anyway, it is a decision. Microsoft decided in the case of office software that there are those who have a service

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Gütlein, Ralf
For me, the vast majority of components are hard metric specified! I do a lot of fine pitch SMD. True! Most *modern* packages are metric Examples: MQFP-144 (ST10F168) 0.65mm pitch FP-64A (Hitachi H8/3644, NEC 78F0034) 0.8mm pitch QFP14-80 (Epson SED1375) 0.5mm pitch TSOP-48 (AMD 29F400

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
forget ATS, you don't require it. we'll see what happens with future service packs. Whether ther are available for free or not. As to the online libraries : Without a decent library browser I consider supplied libraries useless. I'd rather have my own. Supplied footprint libraries are

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
not really. when i enter 0.05 inches, I want to see 50 mil and not 49.. And when I entered 0.625mm, I want to see 0.625mm and not 0.624999. Of course, when changing the grid from one to the other, I get some decimals. But when I change the grid back, the value should be the same. That

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread John Ross
-Original Message- From: John Haddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 01 August 2002 16:31 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial If the base units are metric then there will be NO rounding errors in conversion! e.g. if the base unit is one micron then 0.1

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
The ability to break a wire is already sort of there (in P99SE) - you have to split the wire first. If you click (as if you are going to move it) on a wire and then hit the INS key you will add a vertex. You can then delete the wire you no longer want. Am I missing something here? Yes I

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Cam Andruik
I second this feeling. The whole Yearly Maintenance notion leaves a bad taste. It is 180 degrees from what was always attractive about Protel. Cam Andruik Harding Instruments -Original Message- From: Phillip Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 1, 2002 9:19 AM To: Protel

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
It's like wanting to buy a new Porsche and you're trading in a 1979 924 or a 1997 911. Do you think just because you want to drive the 2002 model, they should give you equal trade up? Hey, you didn't drive the 1997 model for the past 5 years, why should you 'pay' for not using it? Companies do

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Yes, Rene, by definition, everything decided is a decision... However, some decisions are worse than others. This morning I decided whether to eat a bagel and grapefruit juice at home, or get a McDonald's biscuit and orange juice on the way to the office. I chose the McD biscuit. That was an

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Rene: 1) Charging people the same amount for one big upgrade as all the missed upgrades 2) Forcing people buy each upgrade even if they don't want it 1 is functionally equivalent to 2. And vice versa. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Duane Foster
Well said... I definitely appreciate Ian's contribution to this forum. Duane -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start! On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002

[PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Bruce Walter
forget ATS, you don't require it. we'll see what happens with future service packs. Whether ther are available for free or not. (snip) Rene I think it is very clear that in order to get service packs, you have to be a current ATS subscriber. That is the whole point. I would hope that most

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
you are right, it is interesting but not very useful in my experience i usually just delete the whole thing actually when i draw wires i right click a lot to make smaller segments so they will edit easier Dennis Saputelli Brock Russell wrote: The ability to break a wire is already sort of

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Watnoski, Michael

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Michael Reagan (EDSI)
forget ATS, you don't require it. we'll see what happens with future service packs. Whether ther are available for free or not. ATS? When I bought my version 2.8 I think I had free ( was it lifetime or did it say unlimited support or neither ? ) Wish I could find a okl brochure,

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Joel Hammer
the lurkers should be having a fit over the last couple of weeks threads... glad i don't have to attend any of those meetings!!! not to mention having to try to keep a straight face and convince someone that it's in their best interest to buy into the altium way of business... ..see we will get

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
I agree with you. The smaller the marketshare the customerfriendlier a company has to act. AFAIK, Protel, ahem Altium could increase their marketshare and therefore don't have to act that customerfriendly anymore. Microsoft can act like a king. Rene Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: Rene:

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread rlamoreaux
Why is this info being stored and how do I stop it from doing so? Especially the pin number starting 8. Go to Preferences and change the default primitives to what you want them to default to and you should be happier. My default pin is set to 0 and 0. Rob

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
AFAIK, the strings are the last ones or derived from the last ones. Also the pin 8. Sometimes I have pin 17 or pin 21. A minor nuisance. This behaviour may depend on the servicepack. Rene Tim Fifield wrote: Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. Why is it

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Dave . E . Lewis
Tim, Protel stores default data that causes the behavior you describe. You can control what you get two ways. 1. Check out the TOOLS - PREFERANCES - DEFAULT PRIMITIVE tab. There you will find the dialog boxes that allow input and editing of the things you noted. 2. While placing (ie

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. 2.8 was halfway working, the next year came 3.0. The next year came 98, the next year came 99, then came 99SE and then the servicepacks. And I paid for every version up to 99. No ? Rene Bruce Walter wrote: forget ATS, you don't require it.

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread David VanHorn
They have gone from the wonderful model of free support and updates (fixes), which attracted new customers in droves, to the annual maintenance model that has either stunted or destroyed other companies. I personally want nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with paying for

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
Hi Tim: You probably have your default primitives set to permanent. Look under Tools...Preferences...Default Primitives. You can edit them and keep these values permanent with the check box on the right. Brock Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. snip

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Peter Bennett
Tim Fifield wrote: Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. Why is it that when I place a Pin (when making a sch symbol for a connector) the pin name and number start at 8? The pin number (and name?) auto-increment, and the pin place form always offers to use

[PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
couple of problems. there is no longar a 'gobal' button when changing properties of objects , a solution given here is close but no sigar : Gripe 1: scenario: open pcb select all components try changing all designator text heights to 45 mil for example. I can't do it . The moment you click on

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
Perhaps unlimited calls. Unfortunately there was just one person doing support then and he spent his time giving classes. Calling back ? Perhaps after you kept calling him 4 times per hour for a day or so. There was no support then, at least as I remember. Rene Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote:

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
You don't need to anymore if it's a 2 pin part (resistor, inductor, capacitor, maybe others as well) DXP will let you drop a part on a wire and will break the wire and connect it for you automatically. You have to turn on the feature in the Tools Preferences box. (Components Cut Wires)

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
because that's the way it is! i get different numbers though i guess it beats getting access violations because some field wasn't expected to be empty maybe dxp fixes some of these things? Dennis Saputelli Tim Fifield wrote: Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
cool! at last a positive thing is said Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except in DXP you can just drop the component on the wire and it will break the wire and attach the pins to the wire. Go to Tools Preferences and turn on Optimize Wires Busses and then Component Cut Wires.

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Ivan, do you mean to say your prices haven't gone up in the past (pick time frame)?? I know I charge more today for basically the same work that I did 3 or 4 years ago. Why is everyone so shocked that Protel's price went up? Everything has gone up, milk, eggs, gas, cars, etc. -Original

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
this is REALLY too bad that they did not add at least a comment field to the library part as Rene says even a one line text field would be a tremendous improvement many of us have been clamoring for this since as early 2.8 as i recall and no, i personally don't want a complicated library

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
Ian wrote: I will put it to the group. Who has played the more constructive role in the forum over the past years. Who would you most like to shut-up? You are an asset to this group Ian. Brock * Tracking #:

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Microsoft can act like a king. King Gates: General Ballmer, how goes the upgrade campaign? General Ballmer: Sire, the peasants are revolting! King Gates: Yes, they are. But how goes the campaign? Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I have a lifetime guarantee on my fireproof roof. Too bad the company is out of business... -Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:33 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE,

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Tim Fifield
Thanks again to those who replied. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:49 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?) Tim, Protel stores default data that causes

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Dave . E . Lewis
98 was up to SP3 when 99 was released. Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 08/01/2002 12:04:17 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks.

[PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread yves Dubois

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Jon Elson
Matt Pobursky wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:38 -0700, JaMi Smith wrote: Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! FWIW, nothing crashes on my system but Protel either. And I mean NOTHING. My drivers are all up-to-date (even my Intellimouse drivers!). My Win2K SP2 is patched up-to-date. My

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I agree!! -Original Message- From: David VanHorn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:00 PM To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? They have gone from the wonderful model of free support and updates (fixes),

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Bruce Walter
I came in on P98, and there were three service packs. I couldn't say before that. -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:04 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
-Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. 2.8 was halfway working, the next year came 3.0. The next year came 98, the next year came 99, then came 99SE and then the servicepacks. And I paid for every

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:20:07 -0400, Watnoski, Michael wrote: Greetings all, Another two cents: Protel has been my biggest headache as far as crashes due to upgrades of other programs.  I would expect that if Protel needed specific versions of .dlls to run, it should have written them and

Re: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
-Original Message- From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:11 PM To: forum Subject: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes couple of problems. there is no longar a 'gobal' button when changing

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
-Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 08:57 AM 1/08/2002 -0400, Andrew Jenkins said: -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,000. Hmmm, send a

Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers

2002-08-01 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:35 PM 7/31/2002 -0700, Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote: Abdul wrote AND WELCOME BACK! Thanks. China is quite a place not what I expected. Suppose the worst designer reading this list knows how to accomplish the task? Should he keep it to himself? No that automatically requalifies

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Paul Hutchinson
P98 had three service packs. Paul -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:04 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. 2.8 was halfway working,

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
No, not everything has gone up. I am surprised that you would make this claim, being in the electronics industry. Here are some things that have gone down: Long distance rates Cellphone rates TVs (get a good one for $300 US, they used to be a lot more) All kinds of personal electronics

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Frank Gilley
Tim, Thought I might let you know most kindly... It appears your computer's time zone is also off. It is reporting -03:00 GMT. Thanks, Frank Frank Gilley Dell-Star Technologies (918) 838-1973 Phone (918) 838-8814 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dellstar.com

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
Finger hovering over the JaMi block... Ian Hehe, well said Ian. I don't think I ever had to kill filter anyone on a mailing list before :-) Here's hoping I never have to. JaMi, please chill out a little, this isn't a playground. These arguments have been fun to watch but are getting

[PEDA] Simulation Question

2002-08-01 Thread Tim Hutcheson
I have long forgotten how I managed to do some simulations with this software so I appeal to the group about finding the simplest simulation ready schematic parts. For example when I open the Sim.ddb parts library to place an inductor, I only see INDUCTOR but it doesn't contain the read-only

Re: [PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread Jeff Stout
There is a No-Connect Rule you can apply to those component pads. Goto D(esign)/R(ules)/Manufacturing/Power Plane Connection Style/Add Then goto Filter Kind and specify Pad, and go find the pad you want. Then on rule Attribute, set it to No Connect. Jeff Stout - Original Message -

Re: [PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread Brian Sherer
Yves, I've found that a sure-fire way to avoid netlist conflicts in this situation is to create a second Schematic part for each IC to be decoupled, changing its power pin Name from VCC or VDD to something like U25_PWR. Replace the original Sch component with this part. This will netlist

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
DXP Demo does allow this in schematic, just drop a component on top of a wire and it will automatically cut and insert for you. Just one of the many nice improvements I've seen in the 10 mins I just evaluated it for. Rich Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good? The ability to break a

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Like a Mac? :) I dislike Macs for many other reasons, but they have app management down much better than Bill G. -Original Message- From: Matt Pobursky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:12:18 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: I have only had 1 crash of Protel 99SE in the year or so I've been running it under Win 2K.  That day, I had been chopping parts out of a bunch of libraries, and putting them into other libraries, and all sorts of odd things that I don't do

[PEDA] Re[2]: DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Phillip Stevens
Rene, 3.0 had at least 1 SP. 98 had 3 SP. 99SE was at SP6. Past performance may not be an indication of future performance, but, for fun, try the following: Superimpose an imaginary ATS program (had one existed at the time) over the SP release dates of 99SE, and ask yourself which service

Re: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
Go to Tools/Preferences and un-tick Click Clears Selection it now works as in 99SE Rich Gripe 4 The selection is not 'sticky' you select a bunch of stuff , as soon as you click somewhere the selection gets undone. how do you 1) add more stuff to this selection 2 ) move a part outside

[PEDA] question about layer stackup/controlled impedance traces...

2002-08-01 Thread rimas
hello out there, i'm about to have my first PCB design involving controlled impedance traces manufactured in the near future (just a small run of protos). I only have controlled impedance traces on the top layer. using the transmission line impedance calculation tool at:

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Igor Gmitrovic
Matt, Protel has a bad track in documenting their 'features', but this one is in a Protel 99SE book, page 80, although it is somewhat unclear that the wire is in fact a polyline. And I am sure it is in previous editions' books as well. Igor -Original Message- From: Matt Pobursky

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Damon Kelly
Well said, Ian. While I am sure Jami is an experienced designer, and does have some valid points about bugs and features, his manner is frankly offensive. Damon Kelly Hardware Engineer -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread jamgramet
You have forgotten what EDA software used to cost! In the early days of Daisy, Mentor, Valid you would have to pay ten's of thousands of dollars just for schematic capture! The PCB layout tools cost $100k+. This was before PC's came along. In the IC industry, they have to pay $100k-1m+ for a

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread jamgramet
You have forgotten what EDA software used to cost! In the early days of Daisy, Mentor, Valid you would have to pay ten's of thousands of dollars just for schematic capture! The PCB layout tools cost $100k+. This was before PC's came along. In the IC industry, they have to pay $100k-1m+ for a

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
The personal electronics industry is a freak among industries. You must agree with that? Even in your example lies cable modem service that has gone up and up. Tell me why? They say it's because it reflects the value of our service.' BS, it's because DSL went up and cable can go up to because

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