Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-17 Thread Tim Fifield

ok, I've installed the server and put it on my toolbar. 2 questions.

1. Where can I find the bitmap file for the icon? (The icon as seen in the
list of servers).

2. How do I use it? I've selected a pad I want as a test point and then
pressed the button, but the testpoint box doesn't become checked. The pad
is on the bottom of the board. What am I missing?

Tim

-Original Message-
From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:01 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


On 04:43 PM 13/12/2001 -0400, Tim Fifield said:
Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

(To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on the
bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
report. Any thoughts???

Tim

Some time ago I wrote a server to help with the lack of global attribute
access for the testpoint status.  You can find it here:
http://www.considered.com.au/Protel01.htm

Ian Wilson

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-17 Thread Ian Wilson

On 04:30 PM 17/12/2001 -0400, Tim Fifield said:
ok, I've installed the server and put it on my toolbar. 2 questions.

1. Where can I find the bitmap file for the icon? (The icon as seen in the
list of servers).

2. How do I use it? I've selected a pad I want as a test point and then
pressed the button, but the testpoint box doesn't become checked. The pad
is on the bottom of the board. What am I missing?

Tim

Tim,

This server was, and is, a quick hack.  There is no online 
support.  However, contained in the zip file is a readme file with details 
on its use.  Basically there is no user interface.  You must pass in 
parameters to set the testpoint status of any selected pads. The readme 
file gives details on the parameters available. From the readme file:

There is only one process:

SetSelectedPadsAsTestpoints

and only one parameter:
TestpointAction which can be one of:
 ClearAll, Both, BottomOnly or TopOnly.

Example:
TestpointAction=BottomOnly

You should note that actions BottomOnly and TopOnly will *not* change the 
current testpoint of the status of the other layer - they only affect the 
testpoint status of their given layer.

So to make this server work well, you will probably find that you want to 
add a couple of menu items or toolbar widgets - one for each of the 
possible actions.  Alternatively you can write you own wrapper in 
ClientBasic, including a dialog box if you wish, to access the various actions.

As for an icon - there is no separate icon provided with the server.  It 
just uses the default icon provided by the P99SE.  I think the icon 
included with this server is the default icon provided by Delphi.  If you 
really want that icon you can rip it out of the dll using one of the 
numerous icon extracting programs available on the internet.  I am sure 
www.tucows.com would have something.

My free servers tend not to have a great deal of documentation or user 
interface glitzes.  Actually I am working pretty much all of my servers 
such that a dialog box is not required - in some cases, such as the parts 
list extractor the user has the option of using a dialog interface or a 
stored configuration - this allows ready conformance to a company 
standard.  The presentation of the dialog box is controlled by a process 
paramater.

Hope this helps,
Ian Wilson

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-16 Thread Ian Wilson

On 12:01 PM 16/12/2001 +1100, Ian Wilson said:
On 04:43 PM 13/12/2001 -0400, Tim Fifield said:
Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

(To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on the
bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
report. Any thoughts???

Tim

Some time ago I wrote a server to help with the lack of global attribute 
access for the testpoint status.  You can find it here:
http://www.considered.com.au/Protel01.htm

Ian Wilson

Harry Selfridge pointed out a permissions problem - this has been fixed 
sorry for any inconvenience.  This happened after uploading the site to our 
hosting service after a major outage (they had to rebuild their machines) 
and the backups they had paid the fancy US-based data farm had not been 
done - and the hosting service had not checked their backups. I was 
overseas for a couple of weeks and the person that did the upload is not as 
technical as me and neither of us fully checked everything.


Bye for now,
Ian Wilson

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-15 Thread Ian Wilson

On 04:43 PM 13/12/2001 -0400, Tim Fifield said:
Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

(To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on the
bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
report. Any thoughts???

Tim

Some time ago I wrote a server to help with the lack of global attribute 
access for the testpoint status.  You can find it here:
http://www.considered.com.au/Protel01.htm

Ian Wilson

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread lloyd . good

Tim,
Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill, Pik
and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv file
of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such. Meaning
checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.

Regards,
Lloyd

-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

Tim

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Tim Fifield

Lloyd,

That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and Pad
XY?

Tim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:51 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


Tim,
Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill, Pik
and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv file
of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such. Meaning
checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.

Regards,
Lloyd

-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

Tim


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Tony Karavidas

Mid is the geometric center of the object. Who knows exactly how they
compute it and what they take into account IIRC, this is what I've used
in the past.

I believe the Ref if the Reference point assigned when the component was
built in the library editor.

Pad? Dunno. Maybe this uses Pad1 as a default.

You could try placing a part or two and telling us. :)

I any case, the assembly house when programming their PP machines will
verify and correct for offsets or inaccuracies in these numbers. I've seen
them do tria runs to figure out if all these numbers are correct.

Tony

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:50 AM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Lloyd,

 That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and Pad
 XY?

 Tim

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:51 PM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Tim,
 Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill, Pik
 and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
 generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv file
 of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
 Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
 testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such. Meaning
 checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.

 Regards,
 Lloyd

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
 To: Protel EDA Form
 Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

 X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
 X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

 Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

 Tim


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Samuel Cox \Sam\

Hello,,,

Mid is the geometric center of  the spans of  all of the pins in a 
component.. (not the body outline.)
Ref is the origin of the component when the component was created in the 
library..
Pad is Pad1 of the component...

Most of the time the component is and I believe should be built with the 
origin (Ref) at the center of PIN 1
so that when placement is performed you have the best chance to align all 
or the most number of pins to a
testable /routing grid..  Since Protel does such a great job of calculating 
the centroid for the mid of the component
anyway.  Secretly the object of the game is to get as many pins as possible 
on an even increment of the routing grid.
Which should be an even increment of the placement and tester grid..


Most Assembly houses want  the centroid.. which Protel considers to be the 
Mid..
for surfacemount components... However they want pin1 for axials etc.
You can easily provide that by providing the PIK file..

The X,Y coordinates are based from where the origin of the workspace is 
defined at the time
in which you generate the PIK file..  so if you move the origin (set) it to 
a fiducial or tooling hole
prior to generating the PIK file  then all coordinates (X,Y) will emanate 
from that point..  Also doubly cool
from a manufacturing perspective...

Rotation is based upon the orientation of the component outline at the time 
it was originally created in the library..
meaning.. if one DIP16 was created in the vertical that would be considered 
0 rotation..
  if another DIP20 was created in the horizontal  in the library it too 
would be considered
0 also , so when both are place in a workspace or database.. so that they 
looked vertical .. one would have an rotation of
0  and the other 90.. due to their different orientation at the time of 
their respective creations.

Hope this helps...

Sam



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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Tim Fifield

Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

(To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on the
bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
report. Any thoughts???

Tim

-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:50 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


Mid is the geometric center of the object. Who knows exactly how they
compute it and what they take into account IIRC, this is what I've used
in the past.

I believe the Ref if the Reference point assigned when the component was
built in the library editor.

Pad? Dunno. Maybe this uses Pad1 as a default.

You could try placing a part or two and telling us. :)

I any case, the assembly house when programming their PP machines will
verify and correct for offsets or inaccuracies in these numbers. I've seen
them do tria runs to figure out if all these numbers are correct.

Tony

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:50 AM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Lloyd,

 That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and Pad
 XY?

 Tim

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:51 PM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Tim,
 Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill, Pik
 and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
 generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv file
 of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
 Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
 testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such. Meaning
 checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.

 Regards,
 Lloyd

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
 To: Protel EDA Form
 Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

 X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
 X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

 Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

 Tim


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread lloyd . good

Tim,
Unfortunately the testpoint feature is one that does not fall under global
edit control. Much to my dismay! You might try to define what a test point
is, provided they all share the same characteristics. This can be done in
the Design-Rules-Manufacturing tab menu. Then you might have some success
using the Testpoint Find feature. This is under the Tools- Find and Set
testpoints. I have had limited success with this, but it may do 50-75% of
the work for you at worst.
Good luck.
Lloyd

-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:43 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

(To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on the
bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
report. Any thoughts???

Tim

-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:50 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


Mid is the geometric center of the object. Who knows exactly how they
compute it and what they take into account IIRC, this is what I've used
in the past.

I believe the Ref if the Reference point assigned when the component was
built in the library editor.

Pad? Dunno. Maybe this uses Pad1 as a default.

You could try placing a part or two and telling us. :)

I any case, the assembly house when programming their PP machines will
verify and correct for offsets or inaccuracies in these numbers. I've seen
them do tria runs to figure out if all these numbers are correct.

Tony

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:50 AM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Lloyd,

 That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and Pad
 XY?

 Tim

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:51 PM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Tim,
 Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill, Pik
 and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
 generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv file
 of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
 Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
 testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such. Meaning
 checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.

 Regards,
 Lloyd

 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
 To: Protel EDA Form
 Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

 X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
 X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

 Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

 Tim


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 02:50 PM 12/13/01 -0400, Tim Fifield wrote:
Lloyd,

That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and Pad
XY?

Mid is the component centroid. It may only be the centroid of the extent 
of the pads or it may include outline, I think it is the former.

Ref is the location of the components' reference point as defined in the 
library.

Pad, I'm not certain, but I think it is the location of pad 1, if such an 
animal exists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Abdulrahman Lomax
Easthampton, Massachusetts USA


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 12:21 PM 12/13/01 -0800, Samuel Cox \Sam\ wrote:
Most of the time the component is and I believe should be built with the 
origin (Ref) at the center of PIN 1
so that when placement is performed you have the best chance to align all 
or the most number of pins to a
testable /routing grid..  Since Protel does such a great job of 
calculating the centroid for the mid of the component
anyway.  Secretly the object of the game is to get as many pins as 
possible on an even increment of the routing grid.
Which should be an even increment of the placement and tester grid..

Centroid is better, in my opinion. Yes, the routing grid could possibly be 
improved by having a guaranteed pad on grid, but much more often, now, pads 
spacings are not a grid multiple so this is useless. In fact, it is worse 
than useless: try lining up a series of 0603 resistors, for example, that 
are to be oriented some with pin 1 up and some with pin 1 down. If centroid 
were used, no problem, they naturally align.

If pads are on grid, centroid will be on grid or half-grid at worst. For 
example, an SOIC will have the pads on 25 mil grid (in the direction of 
tracks that must pass between pads, which is where grid is important.

Rotating parts with centroid reference is a bit easier, they stay put. 
Discover that a diode is wired backwards in the schematic after the PCB 
design is done? With centroid reference, one rotation and you are done. 
With pin 1, you must rotate and translate. If you have a row of 100 of 
these, you can rotate them with a global edit, you will be very glad you 
have centroid reference.

Protel is to be commended for providing alternatives

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Abdulrahman Lomax
Easthampton, Massachusetts USA

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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation (testpoints)

2001-12-13 Thread Casey Vanderweide

You have to set a couple of DRC items to do this, under manufacturing,
'testpoint style'  fill out the size and what side of the board the
testpoints are on, I would set the testpoint grid size to 1mil or else it
won't find many of them (possible bug?)
Then under the same manufacturing tab go to 'testpoint usage' and make sure
testpoint required is checked,  also  the 'allow multiple tespoints on same
net' should be checked if you are using more then 1 testpoint on say power
nets.

After setting up these rules you can now run the 'find and set testpoints'
under the tools menu in the PCB editor, it should highlight all the ones it
finds. (you'll find that the ones it identifies will now have the tespoint
attribute checked when double clicking on the pad)
Once you've done this you can go under cam manager and run a testpoint
report which will list the just found testpoints in an ASCII format file.

Hope this helps, it's a bit of a pain but it does work, I've used it
successfully many times.

Best regards,
Casey Vanderweide.


- Original Message -
From: Tim Fifield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Thanks Tony, but I'm too busy to test the Pad XY theory right now.

 (To Group) However, my next problem is that I have a 170 test points on
the
 bottom of my pcb that don't have the testpoint box checked and I can't
 seem to globally edit to change them all so I can generate a testpoint
 report. Any thoughts???

 Tim

 -Original Message-
 From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:50 PM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


 Mid is the geometric center of the object. Who knows exactly how they
 compute it and what they take into account IIRC, this is what I've
used
 in the past.

 I believe the Ref if the Reference point assigned when the component was
 built in the library editor.

 Pad? Dunno. Maybe this uses Pad1 as a default.

 You could try placing a part or two and telling us. :)

 I any case, the assembly house when programming their PP machines will
 verify and correct for offsets or inaccuracies in these numbers. I've seen
 them do tria runs to figure out if all these numbers are correct.

 Tony

  -Original Message-
  From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:50 AM
  To: Protel EDA Forum
  Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation
 
 
  Lloyd,
 
  That works great! What's the difference between Mid XY, Ref XY, and
Pad
  XY?
 
  Tim
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:51 PM
  To: Protel EDA Forum
  Subject: Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation
 
 
  Tim,
  Under the CAM outputs, you have choices to generate gerbers, NC Drill,
Pik
  and Place etc. This the the section that you wish to use. Just choose to
  generate Pick and Place which gives you two files a *.txt and a *.csv
file
  of the X/Y co-ordinates for the components. Also choose to generate a
  Testpoint report, which will output the X/Y co-ordinates of all your
  testpoints, provided that you have set all the testpoints as such.
Meaning
  checked the testpoint box under the pad attributes menu.
 
  Regards,
  Lloyd
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:41 AM
  To: Protel EDA Form
  Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation
 
 
  My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:
 
  X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
  X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file
 
  Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?
 
  Tim
 


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Re: [PEDA] .TXT File generation

2001-12-13 Thread Anthony Whitesell


I know that the pick and Place file when you generate the Gerber files will
give the X/Y coordinates of the components and their rotation.  I am not
familiar with a way to get the testpoint coordinates

Anthony Whitesell
Sunrise Labs


-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:41 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] .TXT File generation


My production facility (not pcb house) is asking for the following:

X/Y coordinates of components .TXT file
X/Y coordinates of test points/pads in .TXT file

Is it possible to generate those files in P99SE? If so, how?

Tim

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