Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-12 Thread JaMi Smith

Interesting way of ascribing Intelligent Design to Sheer Oversight ...

...

Actully, a feature. Here is why this happens, I think:

Protel assumes, when you are placing parts, that you will want the
relative 
locations of reference designators etc. to be as you used for the last
part 
placed. So it puts, if I am correct, the reference designator there.
When 
the previous part was different from the one you now want to place, this

can be a very unuseful position. But Protel, at the same time, has
realized 
that if you rotate the part from the previous position, you will not
want 
the same reference designator position, so it restores the designator
text 
to the default position. Thus if you want default, simply rotate the
part. 
If you want what you used before, leave it unrotated.

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-12 Thread Abd ulRahman Lomax

At 11:53 AM 4/12/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith wrote:
Interesting way of ascribing Intelligent Design to Sheer Oversight ...

No, it was merely a theory, as I wrote later, unverified. And indeed I 
could not verify it, but perhaps only because I could not duplicate the 
stray designator problem, even though I tried quite a few different 
scenarios. So I can see four possibilities:

(1) my hypothesis is false.
(2) it's true, i.e., the behavior is a side effect of something desirable 
-- persistence of settings --, whether it is intentional or fortuitous, but 
it depends on some setting that I did not identify.
(3) the problem depends on settings, but the hypothesis is also false.
(4) the problem depends on the phase of the moon, and the rising sign and 
frustration level of the user.

Does anyone know how to reliably duplicate the problem of stray 
designators/types?

(Yes, I have seen it also, and it does reliably go away by rotating the 
parts, that much I knew already.)


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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-11 Thread Igor Gmitrovic

Abdul Rahman,

this is a good, logical explanation. Still, features like that should have
been documented somewhere. Are they? People might be able to make use of
them, if only they knew the features were there.

Igor

-Original Message-
From: Abd ulRahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2002 1:45 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


At 09:34 AM 4/9/2002 +0200, Edi Im Hof wrote:
I noticed this also. I just hit the spacebar fout times (rotate 360°) and 
everything is fine. Clearly a bug.

Actually, a feature. Here is why this happens, I think:

Protel assumes, when you are placing parts, that you will want the relative 
locations of reference designators etc. to be as you used for the last part 
placed. So it puts, if I am correct, the reference designator there. When 
the previous part was different from the one you now want to place, this 
can be a very unuseful position. But Protel, at the same time, has realized 
that if you rotate the part from the previous position, you will not want 
the same reference designator position, so it restores the designator text 
to the default position. Thus if you want default, simply rotate the part. 
If you want what you used before, leave it unrotated.

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-10 Thread Abd ulRahman Lomax

At 09:34 AM 4/9/2002 +0200, Edi Im Hof wrote:
I noticed this also. I just hit the spacebar fout times (rotate 360°) and 
everything is fine. Clearly a bug.

Actually, a feature. Here is why this happens, I think:

Protel assumes, when you are placing parts, that you will want the relative 
locations of reference designators etc. to be as you used for the last part 
placed. So it puts, if I am correct, the reference designator there. When 
the previous part was different from the one you now want to place, this 
can be a very unuseful position. But Protel, at the same time, has realized 
that if you rotate the part from the previous position, you will not want 
the same reference designator position, so it restores the designator text 
to the default position. Thus if you want default, simply rotate the part. 
If you want what you used before, leave it unrotated.

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-10 Thread Peter Bennett

Abd ulRahman Lomax wrote:
 
 At 09:34 AM 4/9/2002 +0200, Edi Im Hof wrote:
 I noticed this also. I just hit the spacebar fout times (rotate 360°) and
 everything is fine. Clearly a bug.
 
 Actually, a feature. Here is why this happens, I think:
 
 Protel assumes, when you are placing parts, that you will want the relative
 locations of reference designators etc. to be as you used for the last part
 placed. So it puts, if I am correct, the reference designator there. When
 the previous part was different from the one you now want to place, this
 can be a very unuseful position. But Protel, at the same time, has realized
 that if you rotate the part from the previous position, you will not want
 the same reference designator position, so it restores the designator text
 to the default position. Thus if you want default, simply rotate the part.
 If you want what you used before, leave it unrotated.

Sounds like a good theory...

However, I find that Protel _always_ (well, almost always) places the
ref des and value some distance from the part, regardless of how this
text is positioned on any existing part, or even if I have never used
that part before.  A double flip of the part will always bring the text
in closer, to the expected position.

When placing multiple copies of a part, the first one will get the
misplaced text, but if it is corrected, successive parts will probably
have the text correctly placed.

I consider this to be a bug (not severe, but somewhat annoying)

-- 
Peter Bennett
TRIUMF
4004 Wesbrook Mall, Vancouver, BC, Canada  
GPS and NMEA info and programs: 
http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-10 Thread Brad Velander

Abd ul-Rahman or anybody else involved in this discussion,
I have been following the comments on this thread without
understanding exactly what is happening in these discussions. Considering
Protel places the designator and comments at some arbitrary location upon
initial placement of the symbol, I cannot follow your comments below.
Can you take a moment to explain your comments more thoroughly. I
really don't understand what you are saying because there is no user control
over the location of designators until they are edited/moved after symbol
placement. Or is there something that I have never discovered about the
placement of designators with regard to new symbol placement?
I have even tried placing several differing components
(size/shape/designator locations) from our library. No matter what I did,
nor which order I placed them in, they always had their designators at
exactly the same location for any one part. I am baffled completely by this
thread, I don't see any correlation between designator locations and the
previous components designator locations.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com

See us at Booth S8155 at NAB 2002 in Las Vegas April 8 - 11.


 -Original Message-
 From: Abd ulRahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:45 AM
 To: Protel EDA Forum
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??
 
 
 At 09:34 AM 4/9/2002 +0200, Edi Im Hof wrote:
 I noticed this also. I just hit the spacebar fout times 
 (rotate 360°) and 
 everything is fine. Clearly a bug.
 
 Actually, a feature. Here is why this happens, I think:
 
 Protel assumes, when you are placing parts, that you will 
 want the relative 
 locations of reference designators etc. to be as you used for 
 the last part 
 placed. So it puts, if I am correct, the reference designator 
 there. When 
 the previous part was different from the one you now want to 
 place, this 
 can be a very unuseful position. But Protel, at the same 
 time, has realized 
 that if you rotate the part from the previous position, you 
 will not want 
 the same reference designator position, so it restores the 
 designator text 
 to the default position. Thus if you want default, simply 
 rotate the part. 
 If you want what you used before, leave it unrotated.

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-10 Thread Abd ulRahman Lomax

At 09:10 AM 4/10/2002 -0700, Peter Bennett wrote:
Sounds like a good theory...

However, [...]

Normally, I try to thoroughly verify what I report. Sometimes, however, I 
am unable to do that. Like now. So what I wrote should be treated as 
nothing more than an unproven hypothesis. If I had time, I would research 
the behavior of placed parts and ways in which a user can affect the 
position of such designators. Perhaps when the insert key is used to copy a 
part, the relative designator positions are stored. Perhaps TAB popping up 
the edit window will allow some setting on the Designator tab. Etc.

This discussion is only about Schematic, BTW.



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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-09 Thread Edi Im Hof

At 11:07 08.04.02 -0400, you wrote:
Miker,
I noticed the same thing as well.  However, when I placed multiple copies of
the component the asscociated text seemed to correct itself.

I noticed this also. I just hit the spacebar fout times (rotate 360°) and 
everything is fine. Clearly a bug.
Anyway, we should have the possibility to control the position of this text 
in the library. Default automatic as it's now (without this bug) or manual 
as we wish.

Edi Im Hof

  In most cases I
need multiple copies anyway, so I just place one more than I need and
deleted the first one with the offending text.

Sorry I can't offer a good solution, but I can confirm the behaviour you're
seeing.

Marshall

-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: April 8, 2002 10:42 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


hello,

i created a component in a library and when i place it
on the schematic, the part designator and type are way
off where they don't belong.  i've got other components
that are fine, but i can't find the difference and i
can't figure out how to adjust the default locations for
these fields in the component library.

i looked in the library under description, which has text
fields nomenclature, but no coordinate options.  i compared
the component coordinates in the library of a component
that works fine with the misbehaving one, and couldn't find
any notable differences.

thank you, miker





+  IH electronic+  Phone:   ++41 52 320 90 00  +
+  Edi Im Hof   +  Fax: ++41 52 320 90 04  +
+  Doernlerstrasse 1, Sulz  +  URL: http://www.ihe.ch  +
+  CH-8544 Rickenbach-Attikon   +  E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   +
+  Switzerland  +  +


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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-08 Thread Robison Michael R CNIN

i wanted to add a bit to this post.  when i click on the
other part on the schematic thats not giving me a problem
and get the select option for the chip that is about 10 
miles away from it, and select the chip thats far away,
the graphical attributes show x and y coordinates for over
where the part is, and not anything close to where i'm
clicking, so i'm even further confused.

thanks again, miker

-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 10:42 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


hello,

i created a component in a library and when i place it
on the schematic, the part designator and type are way
off where they don't belong.  i've got other components
that are fine, but i can't find the difference and i
can't figure out how to adjust the default locations for
these fields in the component library.

i looked in the library under description, which has text
fields nomenclature, but no coordinate options.  i compared
the component coordinates in the library of a component 
that works fine with the misbehaving one, and couldn't find
any notable differences.

thank you, miker 

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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-08 Thread Marshall Edge

Miker,
I noticed the same thing as well.  However, when I placed multiple copies of
the component the asscociated text seemed to correct itself. In most cases I
need multiple copies anyway, so I just place one more than I need and
deleted the first one with the offending text.

Sorry I can't offer a good solution, but I can confirm the behaviour you're
seeing.

Marshall

-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: April 8, 2002 10:42 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


hello,

i created a component in a library and when i place it
on the schematic, the part designator and type are way
off where they don't belong.  i've got other components
that are fine, but i can't find the difference and i
can't figure out how to adjust the default locations for
these fields in the component library.

i looked in the library under description, which has text
fields nomenclature, but no coordinate options.  i compared
the component coordinates in the library of a component
that works fine with the misbehaving one, and couldn't find
any notable differences.

thank you, miker


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Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??

2002-04-08 Thread lloyd . good

Mike,
I have also seen this anomaly. I have noticed that it occurs sometimes after
placing a relatively large part on the schematic where the ref designator
and part type are separated by a great distance. If I place a smaller part
whether my own or a Protel library part, the two text items seem to get
stuck in the last positions of the former part placement. I simply rotate
the part I'm placing with the spacebar and both the ref designator and part
type switch back close to the part I'm currently placing. See if this works
for you.
Hope this helps.




   GE Energy Services
__

Lloyd Good
Development Digitization

Substation Automation Solutions
General Electric Canada, Inc.
2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7  CANADA
Tel: 403.214.4777,  Dialcomm: 8.498.4777,  Fax: 403.287.7946
Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/

NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, confidential
and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the reader
of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this
e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you.



-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 8:52 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


i wanted to add a bit to this post.  when i click on the
other part on the schematic thats not giving me a problem
and get the select option for the chip that is about 10 
miles away from it, and select the chip thats far away,
the graphical attributes show x and y coordinates for over
where the part is, and not anything close to where i'm
clicking, so i'm even further confused.

thanks again, miker

-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 10:42 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] library orientation of designators and types ??


hello,

i created a component in a library and when i place it
on the schematic, the part designator and type are way
off where they don't belong.  i've got other components
that are fine, but i can't find the difference and i
can't figure out how to adjust the default locations for
these fields in the component library.

i looked in the library under description, which has text
fields nomenclature, but no coordinate options.  i compared
the component coordinates in the library of a component 
that works fine with the misbehaving one, and couldn't find
any notable differences.

thank you, miker 

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