Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel
On 11:05 AM 26/03/2001 +0100, Cliff Lawrence said: Hi all, Is there any way of storing irregular or custom pad shapes / definitions in Protel. I often have a requirement for placing odd shaped pads on footprints and it would be nice if they could be directly placed from the Place menu rather than individually created each time. TIA Cliff Lawrence ARCAM I suggest you keep a PCB which has your odd shaped pads and the copy and paste them into the PCBLibrary docuemt as you need them when creating the new footprint. There is no library of pads (there used to be in ancient versions of Protel but not recently) and Protel does not have an entity for an odd-shaped pads. Pads are only regular shapes (rounded, rectangle, octagonal) - to make odd shaped pads as i suspect you are aware requires extra fills (preferred if you use the autorouter) and/or tracks along with appropriate details on the relevant mask and paste layers. Storing odd-shaped pads as components (in a PCBLib) is another option and the copy and paste as you create a new component. Either way it will be a copy-and-paste. Alternatively you could try to see what you could do with a macro but I would surprised if you do that many of the same odd-shaped pad that it would be worth taking the time to develop such a macro. With a full on server you could do it of course - could even have a library of pad definitions read from a text file or from a DDB and make a new place pad process including pick box etc. How far do you want to go? How much time would the capability save you over the cut-and-paste method? Ian Considered Solutions Pty Ltd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ABN: 96 088 410 002 5 The Crescent CHATSWOOD 2067 Ph: +61 2 9411 4248 Fax: +61 2 9411 4249 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel
Beware the octagon pads! Protel does not define them properly in the gerbers. My experience has been that, with a separate aperture file, it's treated as a rectangular pad with chamfered corners, and the gerber file doesn't carry enough info as to how far the chamfer cuts back. Embedded apertures are even worse; Protel treats an octagon pad as having faces at the four points of the compass, whereas every board shop I've dealt with (and apparently the Gerber 274X standard as well) treats it as having points at the compass points, thus fouling up all the clearances. I just got back a board with all the octagons rotated 22.5 compared to the appearance in the original file. Hence I no longer use octagon pads for routine stuff, though I may occasionally use one to flag a special test point, out in wide-open country where no interference is possible. Steve Hendrix I sometimes use octagonal pads (each having equal width and height), though with care. When I do use them, I use embedded aperture definitions (the RS274X standard), and I actually modify these (the embedded aperture definitions), to make them comply with the RS274X standard. In that regard, I change the rotational angle specified from 0 degrees to 22.5 degrees. I *also* change the diameter that is specified; I scale this up by a factor of the secant of 22.5 degrees. A rotational angle of 0 degrees puts vertices on the X and Y axes; changing that angle to 22.5 degrees results in octagons with (road side) STOP sign orientation (which matches what is depicted within a Protel PCB file). Scaling the diameter upwards is based on experience. One PCB I received late last year contained an octagonal pad that looked anaemic; there was far less copper between the outside edge of the pad and the outside edge of its associated hole than I expected. Re-examining the RS274X standard at that time suggested that the diameter specified (within the embedded aperture definition) actually specifies the diameter of the polygon's *circumcircle*, or the vertix to (opposite) vertix distance (given that a regular octagon has an even number of edges/vertices). Protel's software sets a distance equal to the pad's edge to (opposite) edge distance, which is smaller than the vertix to (opposite) vertix distance, and by a factor of the cosine of 22.5 degrees. As such, the distance specified within the Gerber files created by Protel has to be scaled upwards to compensate (by a factor of the secant of 22.5 degrees, which is the reciprocal of the cosine of 22.5 degrees). I also include a note in the readme.txt file (sent with the Gerber files and NC Drill files), in which I explain what modifications I have made to the Gerber files, and the reason for making these. And I also place text strings on a Mechanical layer advising of the orientation and sizes of octagonal pads, and include the contents of that (Mechanical) layer in the Gerber files, so that when the PCB manufacturer views the Gerber files, the resulting enclosed text should ensure that the octagonal pads will be interpreted correctly. (It is not safe to assume that the PCB manufacturer will necessarily read the contents of any readme.txt file that is sent with the Gerber files.) However, I never use octagonal pads where the width and height differ; such pads are not really supported by the RS274X standard (or at least not in a straight forward manner). *If* I had reason to believe that a PCB manufacturer would accept PCB specifications in the form of a GC-Prevue file (which supports apertures having a chamfered rectangular shape), I would then consider using such pads, but otherwise I concur that the potential exists for the pads concerned to be mis-manufactured. Back on the original topic for this thread, a complex pad shape can be supported by surrounding a supported pad shape by primitives as required (arcs, fills, tracks, pads). However, when arcs, fills, or tracks are used, these do not acquire the net assigned to the connected pad by default. It is possible to assign this net to these primitives, but it is still an extra step to achieve that outcome (recent contributions to this thread explain how). As such, it is preferable to implement a complex pad shape by the use of *just* pad primtives. And in the corresponding component in the schematic library file, multiple pins should be located in the same location, so that when the user connects a wire to that point (in the schematic file), he or she connects to both/all of the pads concerned at the same time. In previous posts, I have long advocated that each pin that is part of a component should have an unique number/designator. So, for example, you might have a flag-ship pin 2, and supplementary pins 2A, 2B (, etc, as required). The names and numbers of all supplementary pins should be set to a hidden state within the component within the schematic library file, so that within the schematic file, only the 2, of the flag-ship pin, is displayed
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
Abd-ul Rahman, one of the more eloquent manners I have seen this handled was within PADS. They allow any fill or polygon pour in the footprint to be associated with a pad at the library editor level. This will make the copper feature automatically net to the same net within the netlist. With this functionality I don't believe that the copper even had to touch the pad but I can't remember ever trying it. I am not sure if that could be a valuable feature but it was definitely not a limiting feature because the copper didn't have to touch the pad. As well, I believe that I had the same difficulty when I tried the netlist synchronization (w/assign net to connected copper) on a fill attached to the part pad. The DRC error would not reset and the fill did not assume the netname from the pad. It is possible I missed re-running the DRC but as my memory serves me, I had checked the fills net assignment and it was still no net. I will have to test again in the next few days and figure out why it doesn't seem to work when I tried it. Sincerely, Brad Velander Lead PCB Design Norsat International Inc. #100 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., Canada. V5C6G9. voice: (604) 292-9089 (direct line) fax:(604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:58 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s to assume net SNIP It would be nice if component primitives in contact with pads were automatically assigned nets when the netlist were loaded. That should be reasonably easy to implement, and conceptually satisfying; the program would merely do what we intuitively expect it to do: if we build a complex pad shape, it behaves like a pad. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
At 03:32 PM 3/26/01 -0500, Jenkins, Charlie wrote: I tried building some custom pads by pasting a combination of fills on top of pads but I could not get the fills to assume the net of the pad it touched. There are two ways to assign a net to the fill: one is to run Design/NetlistManager/Menu/UpdateFreePrimitivesFromComponentPads, and the other is to unlock the component primitives (on the Edit Component dialog) and manually select the net. The command does assign nets to component non-pad primitives in contact with pads, in spite of its name. If you run the command, however, the error marker is not removed, which might have confused you. To remove it, either Tools/ResetErrorMarkers or run a DRC clearance check, the latter being preferred. I untimately went with one fill in the middle of the 0805 that barely cleared each 0805 pad. This only required a clearance rule to avoid green. Still it would be nice to have a custom pad combined of multiple touching fills to have all the elements receive the pad's netlist and behave as one pad. Actually, I think the floating fill in the middle is a great way to go. But you could have done it the other way. SUGGESTION Under the Pad Stack menu, have the ability to join the custom pad a single entity and to save that entity as a graphic or other format. You can do it now, you just need to run the Update command. It would be nice if component primitives in contact with pads were automatically assigned nets when the netlist were loaded. That should be reasonably easy to implement, and conceptually satisfying; the program would merely do what we intuitively expect it to do: if we build a complex pad shape, it behaves like a pad. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
On 03:58 PM 26/03/2001 -0800, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said: At 03:32 PM 3/26/01 -0500, Jenkins, Charlie wrote: SUGGESTION Under the Pad Stack menu, have the ability to join the custom pad a single entity and to save that entity as a graphic or other format. You can do it now, you just need to run the Update command. It would be nice if component primitives in contact with pads were automatically assigned nets when the netlist were loaded. That should be reasonably easy to implement, and conceptually satisfying; the program would merely do what we intuitively expect it to do: if we build a complex pad shape, it behaves like a pad. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax As mentioned before there is an update connected copper check box when using the synchroniser (Update PCB) to send the netlist to the PCB. The only issue I have found with it is that it slows the synch on large designs to a cra. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
Not sure if anyone brought this up yet or not... I didn't see it while skimming the other messages. If you are needing odd shaped pads for surface mount, you should be able to use a combination of multiple pads to create the shape you want. This must be done in the component definition in the library editor, and must be brought in through the netlist. If you are just modifying a part to be used in one project you could create a project library and modify this part there. For each single pad 'set', the individual pads that it consists of should all have the same pad designator. eg. if Pad 'set' 1 is actually composed of 3 individual pads just designate them all as 1. When the netlist is loaded these should ALL receive the net name, as well as the masking for the SM pads. There is sometimes a strange issue associated with this(it may be gone, I have not checked) that if one of these pads has the net, but the others do not and then you re-load the netlist... the netlist loader will get confused and basically toggle them... it will remove the net from the pad that has it, and add it to the pads that were NoNet. So... when this is done, and netlist is to be reloaded make sure that for each pad 'set' they either ALL have the net, or NONE have the net to make sure it is assigned properly. I hope that helps. -- Colby Siemer** Custom Battery Chargers ** Custom Power Supplies PowerStream Technology ** Custom UPS 140 S. Mountainway Drive ** Custom DC/DC Converters Orem Utah 84058 ** Power management electronics for OEMs http://www.PowerStream.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
At 04:51 PM 3/26/01 -0800, Brad Velander wrote: Abd-ul Rahman, one of the more eloquent manners I have seen this handled was within PADS. They allow any fill or polygon pour in the footprint to be associated with a pad at the library editor level. This will make the copper feature automatically net to the same net within the netlist. With this functionality I don't believe that the copper even had to touch the pad but I can't remember ever trying it. I am not sure if that could be a valuable feature but it was definitely not a limiting feature because the copper didn't have to touch the pad. That would be one way of doing it. I'm not sure of the value of an automatic association when the primitives are not in contact, and if they are in contact within a footprint, it is not necessary to make an association, it is implied. The netlist loader, when it loads nets to pads, would look for any component copper primitives other than pads and assign the net if there is contact. But that would slow down net load, I'd expect. A defined association would be relatively fast. As well, I believe that I had the same difficulty when I tried the netlist synchronization (w/assign net to connected copper) on a fill attached to the part pad. The DRC error would not reset and the fill did not assume the netname from the pad. I have not tested this with the synchronizer. I've heard that the synchronizer and the Update command use different routines; perhaps this is a difference between them. I prefer not to update copper with the synchronizer because if something goes south I want to know what was happening. It's easy enough to manually command update, once I know the pads have loaded properly. It is possible I missed re-running the DRC but as my memory serves me, I had checked the fills net assignment and it was still no net. I will have to test again in the next few days and figure out why it doesn't seem to work when I tried it. Try using the Design/NetlistManager/Menu/Update... command. I did verify that it works before writing in this thread [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel
Hi Robi, Thanks for the input - I had thought of this already as a kind of last resort method. I was really wondering if there is an editable file somewhere in Protel that stores the pad definitions? Cheers, Cliff Lawrence ARCAM * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel
Hi all, Is there any way of storing irregular or custom pad shapes / definitions in Protel. I often have a requirement for placing odd shaped pads on footprints and it would be nice if they could be directly placed from the Place menu rather than individually created each time. TIA Cliff Lawrence ARCAM * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel
Re: [PEDA] Irregular pad shapes in Protel and How do you get fill s toassume net
At 04:51 PM 26/03/01 -0800, you wrote: As well, I believe that I had the same difficulty when I tried the netlist synchronization (w/assign net to connected copper) on a fill attached to the part pad. The DRC error would not reset and the fill did not assume the netname from the pad. It is possible I missed re-running the DRC but as my memory serves me, I had checked the fills net assignment and it was still no net. I will have to test again in the next few days and figure out why it doesn't seem to work when I tried it. Sincerely, Brad Velander I sent a post saying it works - so it does work! ;-) Sounds like I should have tested it first, though. Maybe the synch update connected copper checkbox only works with free entities? Hang-on - I just did quick test it and, at least for a trivial case, it did work. Checking update connected copper in the synchroniser correctly updated the net of a fill connected to one pad and tracks connected to another pad. So if there is an issue with this function it must be a little more subtle. Hopefully SP7 will fix at least two aspects of irregular/complex pads: 1) automatically assign the correct net to connected copper - in all cases. 2) prevent the autorouter from ripping up copper tracks that are part of a component. (Component copper fills are not ripped up.) Ian Wilson ___ Considered Solutions Pty Ltd 5 The Crescent, Chatswood, NSW, 2067 Australia Ph: +61-2-9411-4248 Fx: +61-2-9411-4249 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
