Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
At 05:20 PM 1/18/2002 -0500, Andrew Jenkins wrote: That is, aside from the complacency that we've all become so used to from Protdel, what holding them back from completing this long-standing (over five years, by my last count) request? Well, I think this is bit of an exaggeration. Protel version 2 had a demo version that was full-function and thus served as a file viewer. It was even full-function *including* file saves for small files, thus hobbyists could use it for very small boards. The file dates for the demo are the beginning of 1995. Since version 2 continued as the current version for some time, there would not have been, I would think, much agitation for a viewer until well into version 3, I don't know the dates for that. I *highly* recommend that the demo be converted to a viewer upon expiration. As far as worries about cracks are concerned, as long as there is a demo of the kind that already exists, it is trivial to continue to use the demo beyond the expiration, it does not take a rocket scientist or sophisticated hacker. I'm not going to explain how, so don't ask. There is even another way, even easier, given Protel policies. Just buy the program, then return it. Of course, this means lying to Protel. But my point is that allowing continued operation of the demo with only file save and certain other operations disabled would not increase the risk of losses due to hacking and cracking. Further, being able to look and manipulate but not save might provide continued encouragement to go ahead and buy, and the familiarity of the user with the Protel interface would be maintained, one more weight in the scale toward purchase of Protel rather than some other package. (I've expressed my opinion many times that illegal software use, provided it does not become the norm, does not harm the software company and that figures widely reported about losses due to illegal use are based on a very shaky assumption that all the illegal use represents purchases that did not take place. It is just as likely that illegal use eventually becomes purchase as a user wants to come in out of the cold. Many years ago, starting out and very much short of cash, I was given a copy of Microsoft Works. Within one year, I bought a license to get the upgrade to the next version. How much did Microsoft lose from my piracy? If there had been no illegal option, would I have rushed out to buy the software earlier? I can be quite sure that, no, I would have used something else, maybe I would have ended up with Works, maybe not. That I used and became familiar with Works, however, made it very certain that it was Works I bought in the end. To my knowledge, the most successful software is also the most pirated software; it is quite possible that efforts to prevent piracy *reduce* software sales. It will be interesting to see how XP goes. It is quite possible to prevent piracy entirely, if users are willing to tolerate a requirement for an occasional net connection or other proof of legal ownership. But will this increase sales? I doubt it. Better software at affordable prices will increase sales, in general, since most software money is from business use and serious businesses cannot afford to depend on illegal software.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
You mean someone has a complete Protel, a fat 30MB exe or such and 99.9% is disabled due to a password ? It could be smaller. It could be cracked. Rene Emanuel Zimmermann wrote: I agree partially. I see one way Altium could turn Protel probably easily into a viewer. The workgroup feature with a special login account to a ddb (for example login as user viewer) that restricts access to just viewing files could be setup such that no license code actually is needed for this. As soon as one logs in with the right to write files anywhere in the ddb Protel then would check for a valid license code. What do you think about such a solution? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
[PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
Hi All, WT There is also an add-on called klipper - distibuted by desktop-eda WT (www.desktop-eda.com.au) - which allows: I know and sell all these tools to my customers. But I was asked about FREE viewer for binary or ASCII files. Like free P-CAD 2001 viewer. So I understand what Protel forgotten to dvelop it. I have programmer who can develop it. We've developped WinView for viewing binary sch, pcb, sym, prt P-CAD 4.5 files and sell it in Russia with success. It has English interface so anyone outside Russia can buy and use it. Now we can develop same program for Protel. ASCII formal is open. We can nderstand binary one. Are customers really need it? Will they buy it? Price about $100. I want to know opnion of this forum. -- Best regards, Yuri V. Potapoff Technical Director ElectronTrade, Ltd. 8 Ukrainsky boul., Moscow, 121059, Russia Tel: +7-(095)-243-72-50 Fax: +7-(095)-243-44-16 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.electrade.ru * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
At 09:40 PM 1/17/2002 +0300, ElectronTrade (info) wrote: Are customers really need it? Will they buy it? Price about $100. I want to know opnion of this forum. Well, I'll give my opinion. Given that other publishable and freely-viewable formats exist, I'd see no market for a Protel file viewer. If the viewer also allowed full access to the database (such as being able to see design rules, net assignments, etc.), *maybe* that opinion would change. I would not advise putting programming effort into this. Writing translators would be more fruitful, I'd think. For starters, writing a translator for Protel Schematic to OrCAD would be useful, and it is almost done. Protel will write an OrCAD SDT schematic, and the Protel library ASCII format files are *almost* the same as SDT schematic files. It should be fairly simple to cross the gap. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
i agree with all of this but writing Orcad DSN files from Protel sch would be much better and more useful because you wouldn't have to distribute the libs and SDT is long dead Dennis Saputelli Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 09:40 PM 1/17/2002 +0300, ElectronTrade (info) wrote: Are customers really need it? Will they buy it? Price about $100. I want to know opnion of this forum. Well, I'll give my opinion. Given that other publishable and freely-viewable formats exist, I'd see no market for a Protel file viewer. If the viewer also allowed full access to the database (such as being able to see design rules, net assignments, etc.), *maybe* that opinion would change. I would not advise putting programming effort into this. Writing translators would be more fruitful, I'd think. For starters, writing a translator for Protel Schematic to OrCAD would be useful, and it is almost done. Protel will write an OrCAD SDT schematic, and the Protel library ASCII format files are *almost* the same as SDT schematic files. It should be fairly simple to cross the gap. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
At 12:11 PM 1/17/2002 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote: i agree with all of this but writing Orcad DSN files from Protel sch would be much better and more useful because you wouldn't have to distribute the libs and SDT is long dead I agree that it would be better, but, as I mentioned, Protel is already SDT compatible, except for the library problem, and, most importantly, Capture will import SDT files if the libraries are included and an appropriate SDT.CFG file, which could easily be generated. To write Capture files would be a much larger undertaking, and I am not sure that it would return the effort in sales. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], ElectronTrade (info) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi All, WT There is also an add-on called klipper - distibuted by desktop-eda WT (www.desktop-eda.com.au) - which allows: I know and sell all these tools to my customers. But I was asked about FREE viewer for binary or ASCII files. Like free P-CAD 2001 viewer. So I understand what Protel forgotten to dvelop it. I have programmer who can develop it. We've developped WinView for viewing binary sch, pcb, sym, prt P-CAD 4.5 files and sell it in Russia with success. It has English interface so anyone outside Russia can buy and use it. Now we can develop same program for Protel. ASCII formal is open. We can nderstand binary one. Are customers really need it? Will they buy it? Price about $100. I want to know opnion of this forum. Most high end or industry standard software tools include a free viewer for distribution to customers. It is high time Protel offered something like this now it has a wide customer base. It should allow for viewing, printing of different layers, and some basic measurements of track lengths, pad sizes etc. This has at least been my requirements of the Veribest Viewer (which would not allow measurements of track lengths to be taken, I had to do those on a Gerber viewer!). Customers using a Protel Bureau service will need it, but not necessarily want to pay for a viewer. Regards -- David Want * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Protel Viewer
I agree partially. I see one way Altium could turn Protel probably easily into a viewer. The workgroup feature with a special login account to a ddb (for example login as user viewer) that restricts access to just viewing files could be setup such that no license code actually is needed for this. As soon as one logs in with the right to write files anywhere in the ddb Protel then would check for a valid license code. What do you think about such a solution? Emanuel Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 09:40 PM 1/17/2002 +0300, ElectronTrade (info) wrote: Are customers really need it? Will they buy it? Price about $100. I want to know opnion of this forum. Well, I'll give my opinion. Given that other publishable and freely-viewable formats exist, I'd see no market for a Protel file viewer. If the viewer also allowed full access to the database (such as being able to see design rules, net assignments, etc.), *maybe* that opinion would change. I would not advise putting programming effort into this. Writing translators would be more fruitful, I'd think. For starters, writing a translator for Protel Schematic to OrCAD would be useful, and it is almost done. Protel will write an OrCAD SDT schematic, and the Protel library ASCII format files are *almost* the same as SDT schematic files. It should be fairly simple to cross the gap. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA -- MPL AG www.mpl.ch Emanuel Zimmermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager RD Phone: +41 (0)56 483 34 34 Taefernstrasse 20 Fax: +41 (0)56 493 30 20 CH-5405 Daettwil * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
