Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hi Dave, I seem to have to repost this again and again... Gyula ** Protel Knowledge Base Item - 1694 Logged: 3/30/1998 Revised:7/30/2001 Item categories: Autorouting Products affected: Protel 98 (All Versions);99 (All Versions); Operating systems affected: Windows 95;98;NT; Query: Why won't my board autoroute? Details: Sometimes when attempting to route a PCB file in Advanced Route, it can remain in the Initializing shape based route pass, or stop after Initializing. Answer: Use the following points to help identify why the board will not route; 1. Check that the PCB outline has been placed on the Keep Out Layer and not a Mechanical Layer. (For example, make sure that the Keep Out Layer is used instead of Mechanical Layer 1 as these 2 layers are the same color). 2. Insure that there is some outline on the Keep Out Layer. It has been found that the outline need not be completely closed, i.e. the corners do not need to touch. Arcs are not supported in board outline on the Keepout Layer. They are ignored. This is the reason why a board outline defined by a full arc will not initialize and start routing. In the case where tracks and arcs make up the board outline, the arcs get ignored and in effect a straight line is used to close up the gap of where the arc was placed. Generally, in place of the arc there is a straight line assumed from and to the nearby tracks on the Keep out layer. 3. Enable all the layers that are needed for routing the PCB in the Design Rule » Routing Layers setup. When setting up the routing layers you will need to keep in mind that the present autorouter requires either the top or bottom layer to be enabled in the Routing Layers setup. Otherwise you will receive the error message Design Rule Error: no pads defined on any layers. Pressing OK will close down this error and it will appear to want to start autorouting by prompting you to change the routing grid to 0mil. The end result is that the autorouter will be unable to initialize. 4. Avoid using net names with hyphens, spaces; characters other than the alphabet and numbers. 5. Maintain net names less than 10 characters. 6. Maintain pad designator names to 4 characters or less. 7. In Route 98, the router requires all parts of the board to be within a 32x32 inch region from the absolute workspace origin (not the set-able current origin). Note that the coordinates on the Status bar display the distance from the set-able current origin, so if you are not sure reset the origin. To reset the origin select Edit » Origin » Reset from the menus. In Route 99, the autorouter workspace is the same as the PCB workspace of 100x100 inch. 8. Avoid placing any polygons prior to routing. This includes split planes. 9. Polygons that are placed on the top or bottom overlay, or mechanical layers can prevent the autorouter from initializing and routing the PCB. This includes polygons that have been included in a footprint. You will need to edit the footprint and remove the polygon. 10. Check for polygons that are not visible. See Item 2434 for more details. 11. Avoid placing components on a grid smaller than 1mil. It is recommended that components be aligned to a 5mil grid. On high density PCBs, too many components, tracks and other primitives placed on fractional grids (that is less than 1mil grid) can cause the autorouter to find too many contentions. A message similar to One or too many contentions have been found.. The only remedy to this situation is to place components and any routed tracks on at least 1mil grid. 12. Avoid placing tracks, arcs, etc on the multilayer. The router fails to start when it finds primitives other than pads/vias on the multilayer within the keepout region. If you move these primitives temporarily outside the keepout region the autorouter will start to route the PCB. 13. Check the PCB against the maximum capabilities of the autorouter listed in Item 2214. This includes the number of components, pins, etc. Sanders, Dave wrote: Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
good tip for this ! (board info) as to fixing out of workspace stuff isn't that just select all and move? Dennis Saputelli Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 03:27 AM 12/5/2002, Hegyesi Gyula wrote: I seem to have to repost this again and again... And then quoted a detailed knowledge base article. I think one point deserves more attention, even though it has been mentioned: the router may fail to initialize if there are any component primitives outside the workspace. This can be tricky to find and tricky to fix. A fast way to look for the condition is to run Reports/Board Information, and look at Board Dimensions. If there is a negative number in the (Minimum: x,y) report, you have primitives outside the workspace in the negative direction. If the board dimension report is huge, like almost 100 inches or more in either direction -- unless, of course, you really had a huge board -- you have primitives outside the workspace in the positive direction. The latter is rare, usually straying primitives are in negative space. (they are usually created by selecting more than one primitive and then moving one of them. The other(s) will move with it. If you don't notice that the move block outline that conveniently appears is larger than your screen, you can easily end up with primitives outside the workspace. Before selecting and moving primitives, *always* unselect All unless you need to do otherwise, and in that case, be *very* careful.) As to fixing this problem, it has been described many times on the list; I'll not repeat it unless necessary. -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Thanks to all who replied to this thread. All the suggestions were tried, but still no joy. Have now bit the bullet and started again. (Why on earth couldn't the software designers be a little more informative than a cryptic Unable to Initialize?? ) Big Sigh ! Cheers. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:38 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, Things that you may have tried. -repair the database -in the explorer panel under documents, delete the .cfg file (don't ask, but this has worked with other problems) -create a new database and copy your design elements into it. -ensure that no valid footprints intersect or are outside of the keepout. If there's no IP problems, zip up the .ddb and email it to me offline. I can have a quick look - think of it as customer relations. Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 3:24 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hi Phil, still kicking I see. Thanks for the reply! Hugh Stevenson and Dennis Saputelli too, thanks. I wish it was the keep-out layer problem. I've had that problem in the past so that was the first thing that occurred to me, but no such luck. I've tried everything I can think of. I may need to start the pcb layout again. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Dave, may sound trivial, but check your licence setting and make sure the autorouter is enabled. Regards Igor -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, 6 December 2002 1:43 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Thanks to all who replied to this thread. All the suggestions were tried, but still no joy. Have now bit the bullet and started again. (Why on earth couldn't the software designers be a little more informative than a cryptic Unable to Initialize?? ) Big Sigh ! Cheers. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 5:38 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, Things that you may have tried. -repair the database -in the explorer panel under documents, delete the .cfg file (don't ask, but this has worked with other problems) -create a new database and copy your design elements into it. -ensure that no valid footprints intersect or are outside of the keepout. If there's no IP problems, zip up the .ddb and email it to me offline. I can have a quick look - think of it as customer relations. Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 3:24 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hi Phil, still kicking I see. Thanks for the reply! Hugh Stevenson and Dennis Saputelli too, thanks. I wish it was the keep-out layer problem. I've had that problem in the past so that was the first thing that occurred to me, but no such luck. I've tried everything I can think of. I may need to start the pcb layout again. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
no keepout border outline? or some horrible DRC such that the horse can't get out of the gate? that's what i remember, haven't seen it in a while Dennis Saputelli Sanders, Dave wrote: Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hi Dave, I think there are a number of things that can cause it but not having a keepout that totally encloses the routable area is one that I have come across. Make sure it really joins at the corners, not just near but track-ends coincident. I have also seen it other times and solved it by pulling my hair out (changing settings, re-booting, saving, cursing and other non-methodical processes). Good luck, Hugh. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:08 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Design rule violations can also produce the Unable to Initialize message, usually pad or component clearance problems on unrouted boards. Brock * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hi Phil, still kicking I see. Thanks for the reply! Hugh Stevenson and Dennis Saputelli too, thanks. I wish it was the keep-out layer problem. I've had that problem in the past so that was the first thing that occurred to me, but no such luck. I've tried everything I can think of. I may need to start the pcb layout again. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hi Dave, Sorry to hear that that is not it. I seem to remember that I had a problem with the file being corrupted so that there were parts outside the work area (negative locations??) or on an illegal layer, 0 I think, that I had to remedy before getting it to work. It could be worth saving the file as ASCII and having a look to see if there are any obvious things that are wrong. It might be worth moving the reference and seeing if that makes a difference, I have a vague recollection of a problem with that too. If all else fails - the AXE! Hugh. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:54 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hi Phil, still kicking I see. Thanks for the reply! Hugh Stevenson and Dennis Saputelli too, thanks. I wish it was the keep-out layer problem. I've had that problem in the past so that was the first thing that occurred to me, but no such luck. I've tried everything I can think of. I may need to start the pcb layout again. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize
Hello Dave, Things that you may have tried. -repair the database -in the explorer panel under documents, delete the .cfg file (don't ask, but this has worked with other problems) -create a new database and copy your design elements into it. -ensure that no valid footprints intersect or are outside of the keepout. If there's no IP problems, zip up the .ddb and email it to me offline. I can have a quick look - think of it as customer relations. Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 3:24 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hi Phil, still kicking I see. Thanks for the reply! Hugh Stevenson and Dennis Saputelli too, thanks. I wish it was the keep-out layer problem. I've had that problem in the past so that was the first thing that occurred to me, but no such luck. I've tried everything I can think of. I may need to start the pcb layout again. Dave Sanders -Original Message- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Hello Dave, I usually don't use the autorouter, but have seen this occur when the keepout layer is not correctly defined. More of a keep-in approach with an outline on the 'keepout' layer defining the area in which the autorouter can work. I think that arcs and gaps can be a problem. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Sanders, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2002 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Unable to Initialize Has anyone out there ever experienced the wonderfully informative message Unable to Initialize when trying to autoroute. I really need some hints on what can cause this error. The Protel knowledge base comes up with nothing. I am running 99SE SP6 on a Win NT4 machine, designing a 6 layer board (4 sig. 2 pwr.), not particularly dense. Dave Sanders * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
