Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Maxim makes some silicon serial number chips. But they aren't human readable - you need to connect a computing/display device to read out the serial number. If human readable is what you must have, the only thing I can think of that will survive all your board treatments is engraving. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? Thanks a lot. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Here are some I have tried; Metallic inks, solder resist - add a little thinner to make it runny enough to write with and apply with fine brush, engraving pen, paper label with polyimide tape (gold tape) over the top We used to life test at 220°C for 1000hrs and marking was indeed a pain. The first two methods need a brush for application so are a bit fiddly. The last two methods were overall winners with method four firm favourite for speed and convenience. Ordinary soft graphite pencil is best for marking the paper part of the label. I suppose reflow temperatures are higher but exposure is much shorter so you might be OK. Rob Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] ee.co.ukcc: Subject: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling 05-Jun-2003 01:17 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? Thanks a lot. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
In a message dated 6/5/2003 9:07:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? How about an area of bare copper (soldermask opening) in which you can scribe the serial number? Steve Hendrix * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Hmm, that will withstand high temperatures and solvents!, and that is user-configurable, ie, is not executed by etching of each board with a unique s/n? An engraved plate that is riveted to the board (not screwed) is the first thing that comes to mind. You would, of course, need to assign an area to attach the nameplate, and it might be of some value to have the holes taken care of during the etch/drilling operation. aj From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Hi Steve, We have been using a kind of stamp marker that imprints the P/N or S/N onto the PCB. The result is much better if you have a solid area of copper (components side or solder side) where the imprint is made. Since it is mechanical it won't be affected by heat or solvent. The digit dials of our stamper had an auto-increment feature that was very useful for S/N. The digit size was about 0.1 Inch high if I remember correctly. 10~12 digits. I hope this helps. Nick * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Thanks Ivan, We do have a Maxim device on the board (Superb little things - I try to put one on everything I design), but we also need some human readable labelling (don't ask me why - ISO900 (or whatever today's new quality initiative is called) nonsense!). I'll keep thinking. Steve. As an aside, and at the risk of causing offence, is it just me or is every QA inspector a failed Engineer? Every time I get audited they always say 'Hey, I used to be an Engineer'. Well, I am an Engineer, and can't fathom why anybody who wanted to do engineering, and was good at it, would want to move into QA inspection. I'll stop now - My blood pressure is on the rise! -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 June 2003 14:22 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling Maxim makes some silicon serial number chips. But they aren't human readable - you need to connect a computing/display device to read out the serial number. If human readable is what you must have, the only thing I can think of that will survive all your board treatments is engraving. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? Thanks a lot. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Hi, In a previous company we used a self adhesive pre-printed metallic label that could stand (2-3 passes) of reflow and was safe in the wash. It even withstood conformal coat removal. However I don't know the supplier, the fab house was Foundation Technologies (A division or Radstone) in Towchester, UK. Jason. -Original Message- From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 June 2003 13:17 To: Protel forum Subject: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? Thanks a lot. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
The following link is a company that makes a laser PCB marking system. Don't know what kind of cost there is but it has a great cool factor! http://www.pcbdriller.com/pcb_marking.htm Greg - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling Hello all, What methods of labelling would you recommend for unique identification of PCBs. We have been using thermal printed labels for serial numbers etc, but these are destroyed if a board is reworked. The boards have an area for hand writing serial numbers, but this is removed when solvent cleaning! I need a simple method of labelling individual boards, that'll withstand high temperatures and solvents! Any ideas? Thanks a lot. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Brady and others make various poly-whatever label stock that can be laser or thermal transfer printed onto. See http://catalog.bradyserve.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=2cgrfnbr=21753CTcount=1 Some of these labels will even take the high temperatures of a reflow oven. See BRADY B-652 DOT MATRIX / LASER PRINTABLE HIGH TEMPERATURE POLYIMIDE LABEL at: http://www.info.bradycorp.com/TDS/tdsv1r0.nsf/b14eec34add0a9e1802565080049eca9/085b600b0a208f958625688c005f40d4?OpenDocument Get a Brady catalog and see if your thermal printer can be used as a thermal transfer printer. Otherwise go to laser printed or preprinted labels that you can then enter the number into the syste, from the label as opposed to using the system to generate the number. Robert D. LaMoreaux MTS Systems Corp. Powertrain Technology Division 4622 Runway Blvd. Ann Arbor, MI 48108 734-822-9696 Fax 734-973-1103 Main Desk 734-973- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
I feel the same way about Salesmen. Regards, Steve Smith Product Engineer Staco Energy Products Co. Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com -Original Message- From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:17 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling As an aside, and at the risk of causing offence, is it just me or is every QA inspector a failed Engineer? Every time I get audited they always say 'Hey, I used to be an Engineer'. Well, I am an Engineer, and can't fathom why anybody who wanted to do engineering, and was good at it, would want to move into QA inspection. I'll stop now - My blood pressure is on the rise! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
We do have a Maxim device on the board (Superb little things - I try to put one on everything I design), but we also need some human readable labelling (don't ask me why - ISO900 (or whatever today's new quality initiative is called) nonsense!). Now if they would just put a silicon serial number AND an RS232 xcvr pair in the SAME IC, that would be great. Nearly all my designs get an RS-232 interface, even if it's just a PIC-based system. ISO9000, blecchh! No one ever produced a quality product only by following ISO9000 documented procedures. You've got to have the CORRECT procedures to begin with, and a good design. Some industrial equipment companies I know hang lots of ISO9000 paper on their lobby walls, but they would do more to improve their products if they would heed my advice about how they wire their machines. No, I'm not naming names. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
How about a debate on QA then... perhaps not. (so here I go)... I was involved with writing QA for 9000, in fact every engineer and manager had to contribute. In a nutshell, you say what you do and then you consistently do what you have said . That's about it. In many ways it makes jobs so much easier having consistent process documents. Work can be handed over to colleagues with confidence and the whole review process is much simplified. Any engineer worth their salt, no matter how eccentric, would at one time have kept very detailed notes and would have been regarded as superfluous otherwise. QA in this context is just a way of retaining, disseminating and applying this knowledge. Rob Bagotronix Tech Support To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: tronix.com Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling 05-Jun-2003 09:57 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum We do have a Maxim device on the board (Superb little things - I try to put one on everything I design), but we also need some human readable labelling (don't ask me why - ISO900 (or whatever today's new quality initiative is called) nonsense!). Now if they would just put a silicon serial number AND an RS232 xcvr pair in the SAME IC, that would be great. Nearly all my designs get an RS-232 interface, even if it's just a PIC-based system. ISO9000, blecchh! No one ever produced a quality product only by following ISO9000 documented procedures. You've got to have the CORRECT procedures to begin with, and a good design. Some industrial equipment companies I know hang lots of ISO9000 paper on their lobby walls, but they would do more to improve their products if they would heed my advice about how they wire their machines. No, I'm not naming names. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
Thank you to everybody for such fast and comprehensive responses - It's much appreciated. I've passed all your suggestions on to the Production Manager, so it's his problem now! Thanks again. Steve. P.S. Sorry about the QA comments - I hope it doesn't get out of control ;o) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] A little OT - PCB labelling
05/06/2003 20:38:25, Greg Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following link is a company that makes a laser PCB marking system. Don't know what kind of cost there is but it has a great cool factor! http://www.pcbdriller.com/pcb_marking.htm Yeah - I run one of these - http://www.synrad.com/fenix/ On really tight boards, you can burn a human-readable number onto the routed edge of the PCB - no need to leave a label area, or you can stick your own numbers / barcodes onto the top of ICs, if that's the only space you've got. It also does excellent front panel marking for prototypes (anodised aluminium works superbly) . Movies of it are at http://www.synrad.com/Applications/video_clips.htm and there's endless opportunities for big-laser fun :) http://pub.se7ens.net/lists/cam7/unnecessary_toaster.jpg Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
