Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
-Original Message- From: Terry Harris [mailto:terry.harris;iname.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:16 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed! On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:07:12 +1000, you wrote: Well you could have downloaded my partlist generator from Protel BOM csv files for years. I don't recall seeing too many references to it over the years - I do forget stuff so maybe you gave mentioned it. But if someone asked me I wouldn't have known. I'm sure I have mentioned it here although not recently - don't have any reason to push and it is only some awk script to process the .csv files. Currently here http://www.harrt.dsl.pipex.com/electron.html (ResCAD is also cool if you are a circuit designer). The issue I suppose you are really getting here is the fact that the CSV formats are not fixed-format any longer so complicating post processing. What I'm getting at is I can open an existing 99SE project and only with great difficulty generate a useable partlist with the information it already contains. Another nail pinning 99SE on my system for eternity. However, since the header row is included in the CSV file the extra processing to extract the format of the following data is trivial - Not that trivial. We have been told that there will be changes to the report generators. I would hope that this will include the ability to save and recall settings and even recall a saved setting as a process parameter to allow a BOM to be generated with a single keystroke/menu/button. Yes when I found the Output Jobs menu item I thought I had an epiphany. I had been doing it all wrong and this is where you configure all those things and they would be remembered and there would be a one click do it button. Sadly I was wrong. Well they have mentioned very recently there is work happening in this area. Let's hope they come through with a great implementation. Hey someone was bitching that 'we shouldn't be their free beta testers' or something like that, BUT, since we are basically just that, we do have direct input as to how DXP should behave and that is very satisfying. This app has and will incorporate many of OUR ideas and that just makes it easier to use. It's too bad people are spending so much time complaining about 99SE or DXP instead of offering constructive criticism and getting DXP to be what THEY want. Oh well, I guess it will be what I want. (and Ian and Rob and everyone else that is helping the app along.) Another point - again we find that Protel will produce an external data file and then insist on opening that. When I produce a CSV it is very unlikely that I want Excel to open it straight away. I find this intensely annoying. I don't have Excel or any Microsoft applications installed - I find it intensely annoying that DXP has a button named Excel. This is now becoming a 'hot spot' and they are well focused on hot spots. I would bet this changes in short notice. Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit them - they don't appear in the inspector. The query: IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1') Ahh, ok I'll investigate. Slightly worrying because I notice sheets also have parameters but from a quick test it seems they don't count as parameters for IsParameter (no global editing of sheet parameters then?). Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:07:12 +1000, you wrote: Well you could have downloaded my partlist generator from Protel BOM csv files for years. I don't recall seeing too many references to it over the years - I do forget stuff so maybe you gave mentioned it. But if someone asked me I wouldn't have known. I'm sure I have mentioned it here although not recently - don't have any reason to push and it is only some awk script to process the .csv files. Currently here http://www.harrt.dsl.pipex.com/electron.html (ResCAD is also cool if you are a circuit designer). The issue I suppose you are really getting here is the fact that the CSV formats are not fixed-format any longer so complicating post processing. What I'm getting at is I can open an existing 99SE project and only with great difficulty generate a useable partlist with the information it already contains. Another nail pinning 99SE on my system for eternity. However, since the header row is included in the CSV file the extra processing to extract the format of the following data is trivial - Not that trivial. We have been told that there will be changes to the report generators. I would hope that this will include the ability to save and recall settings and even recall a saved setting as a process parameter to allow a BOM to be generated with a single keystroke/menu/button. Yes when I found the Output Jobs menu item I thought I had an epiphany. I had been doing it all wrong and this is where you configure all those things and they would be remembered and there would be a one click do it button. Sadly I was wrong. Another point - again we find that Protel will produce an external data file and then insist on opening that. When I produce a CSV it is very unlikely that I want Excel to open it straight away. I find this intensely annoying. I don't have Excel or any Microsoft applications installed - I find it intensely annoying that DXP has a button named Excel. Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit them - they don't appear in the inspector. The query: IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1') Ahh, ok I'll investigate. Slightly worrying because I notice sheets also have parameters but from a quick test it seems they don't count as parameters for IsParameter (no global editing of sheet parameters then?). Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:19 -0400, Rob Young wrote: Plus it is far superior to P99SE! I just ran a BOM with the new simple BOM generator and it is by far the best BOM output in Protel yet! In fact, I can just open the *.csv file in Excel and don't really have to modify anything. In the designator column, you can set the cell to wrap the text and adjust your column width. I have been wishing for this for years! Well you could have downloaded my partlist generator from Protel BOM csv files for years. With configurable output like this sample Itm Qty References Description === === === === 12 C9 C10 Capacitor ML Ceramic NPO 50v 0603, 22p, Any, (FEC 722-005) 26 C1 C2 C3 C5 C6 C7Capacitor ML Ceramic X7R 50v 0805, 2n2, Any, (FEC 660-607) 37 C4 C8 C11 C13 C15Capacitor ML Ceramic X7R 50v 1206, 100n, C16 C17 Any, (FEC 718-646) 42 C12 C14 Capacitor Tant 16v TAJ-A, 1u, Any, (RS 262-4327) 51 X1 Crystal SMT, 12MHz, Seiko, MA506-12 (FEC 562-889) 64 D1 D2 D3 D4 Diode Small signal SOT-23, BAS16, Any, (FEC 743-124) 73 U2 U3 U4 IC CMOS 74HC SMT SO14, 74HC08, , Any (FEC 379-244) In 98 configured as a csv editor it was a one click operation. 99 bust that with the now deceased database storage. DXP has bust it again because the Sch:ReportBOM process no longer exists although it could be configured to generate some kind of workable csv file. BOM is another example of piss-poor backward compatibility in DXP. Components used to have 16 part fields which I and no doubt others used to store essential BOM information. The BOM reports generated a fixed format csv with all fields. So import a 99SE project to DXP and to create a 99SE compatible BOM csv requires you dick around dragging and dropping fields into the BOM generator then manually exporting a csv file. What I find incredible is that (as far as I can tell) the settings for the BOM generator are not saved anywhere, not even once for the project never mind saved in a format where they could be applied to a different project. After a break looking at DXP again with the new SP1 and I still find myself resisting the urge to punch the screen Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit them - they don't appear in the inspector. Cheers, Terry. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On 08:16 AM 18/10/2002 +0100, Terry Harris said:
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:07:12 +1000, you wrote:
Well you could have downloaded my partlist generator from Protel BOM csv
files for years.
I don't recall seeing too many references to it over the years - I do
forget stuff so maybe you gave mentioned it. But if someone asked me I
wouldn't have known.
I'm sure I have mentioned it here although not recently - don't have any
reason to push and it is only some awk script to process the .csv files.
When you mention awk I do now have a vague recall of it being mentioned.
Currently here http://www.harrt.dsl.pipex.com/electron.html
(ResCAD is also cool if you are a circuit designer).
The issue I suppose you are really getting here is the fact that the CSV
formats are not fixed-format any longer so complicating post
processing.
What I'm getting at is I can open an existing 99SE project and only with
great difficulty generate a useable partlist with the information it
already contains. Another nail pinning 99SE on my system for eternity.
However, since the header row is included in the CSV file the extra
processing to extract the format of the following data is trivial -
Not that trivial.
Hmm - not sure about awk but this is not anything I would consider a show
stopper. Grabbing the headers and setting up hash tables or dynamic arrays
or whatever with the appropriate indices is an hour or so once off
change. Nice if you didn't have to do it but this is hardly a reason to
trash DXP. And doing the change wouldn't break the P99Se version as it
exports the headers as well (I think).
The lack of a recallable settings to allow a corporate standard format is a
much bigger reason to complain IMO.
We have been told that there will be changes to the report generators. I
would hope that this will include the ability to save and recall settings
and even recall a saved setting as a process parameter to allow a BOM to be
generated with a single keystroke/menu/button.
Yes when I found the Output Jobs menu item I thought I had an epiphany. I
had been doing it all wrong and this is where you configure all those
things and they would be remembered and there would be a one click do it
button. Sadly I was wrong.
Another point - again we find that Protel will produce an external data
file and then insist on opening that. When I produce a CSV it is very
unlikely that I want Excel to open it straight away. I find this intensely
annoying.
I don't have Excel or any Microsoft applications installed - I find it
intensely annoying that DXP has a button named Excel.
That too - this one has been commented on in other places as well. Why
assume everyone is paying the MS ransom?
Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally
add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit
them - they don't appear in the inspector.
The query:
IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1')
Ahh, ok I'll investigate. Slightly worrying because I notice sheets also
have parameters but from a quick test it seems they don't count as
parameters for IsParameter (no global editing of sheet parameters then?).
Did some more work on this.
Parameters (named 'Text Field1') added to:
1) Parameter Set
2) PCB Rule
3) Sheet Symbol
are all picked up by the above query. Not Sch sheets though - guess this
is bug.
Want a new query:
InComponent('*') And IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1')
Does that help?
Ian
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html
*
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On 06:58 PM 17/10/2002 +0100, Terry Harris said:
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:19 -0400, Rob Young wrote:
Plus it is far superior to P99SE!
I just ran a BOM with the new simple BOM generator and it is by far the best
BOM output in Protel yet! In fact, I can just open the *.csv file in Excel
and don't really have to modify anything. In the designator column, you can
set the cell to wrap the text and adjust your column width. I have been
wishing for this for years!
Well you could have downloaded my partlist generator from Protel BOM csv
files for years.
Terry,
I don't recall seeing too many references to it over the years - I do
forget stuff so maybe you gave mentioned it. But if someone asked me I
wouldn't have known.
(There is also a P99SE server that will generate a consolidated BOM/parts
list i.e. C1, C3-C10, C23, C59-C59 with the ability to save and recall
setups for one key BOM generation.)
..snip..
Components used to have 16 part fields which I and no doubt others used to
store essential BOM information. The BOM reports generated a fixed format
csv with all fields.
DXP has more fields, of course, as you can set your own. These can then be
included in the BOM. They are called parameters now.
The issue I suppose you are really getting here is the fact that the CSV
formats are not fixed-format any longer so complicating post
processing. Couple this with the inability to save/recall a BOM report
setup (major issue in BOM output making it much more likely that output
will not be consistent).
However, since the header row is included in the CSV file the extra
processing to extract the format of the following data is trivial -
assuming that the user has remembered to include all the correct fields in
the output.
We have been told that there will be changes to the report generators. I
would hope that this will include the ability to save and recall settings
and even recall a saved setting as a process parameter to allow a BOM to be
generated with a single keystroke/menu/button. This would require another
process parameter - the just-do-it parameter which would produce the BOM
without showing the dialog box.
Another point - again we find that Protel will produce an external data
file and then insist on opening that. When I produce a CSV it is very
unlikely that I want Excel to open it straight away. I find this intensely
annoying. If I want the CSV file opened I will open it in what ever editor
I wish to open it. Please Altium - do *not* automatically open a user
exported file. Or at least provide an option (application not design) to
disable this behavior.
..snip..
Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally
add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit
them - they don't appear in the inspector.
The query:
IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1')
Will gather all the 'Text Field1' parameters. Assuming you had Clear
Existing and the Select check boxes checked (in the List Panel) before
applying the query these will be selected and appear in the list panel.
You can then select all the entries in the List panel (click in the text
grid and Cntrl-A) and then right click on any Text Field1 entry and
choose Edit Selected... you can then replace all the selected Text
Field1 parameters with some text or use the substring replacement {old=new}
to be more selective.
The Inspector can't show everything it seems for the odder stuff (by whose
definition?) you have to revert to the less friendly List interface. I
don't have a big problem with this as long as the interface is clear enough.
I have *not* yet found a way to globally *add* a new parameter or model to
selected components. I could, of course, add it into the library and then
update the design from the lib but I was really looking for a way of adding
a new parameter to selected components in the sch and populating this with
some default value.
Does that help? Don't bother talking to me about how complex all this
seems, I know. I love the power of the new query engine but I am sometimes
spending some time working out what the correct form of the query should
be. There is some inconsistency in the query engine key words that could
be cleaned up.
I have pushed through the punch the screen stage on a fully DXP design - I
am getting there but I am sure I have some distance to go yet. Currently,
my main interest in pushing through the learning curve is the much improved
ERC engine which should help make single-pass engineering less dependent on
the memory of the engineer. Once I get the placement Ok I will then be
running it through both the P99Se and the DXp routers and see what happens
- I would normally hand rout this fairly small board but this is a good
opportunity to test the environment without having a ridiculous amount of
work to do if I have to step back to P99SE.
Ian Wilson
PS I have copied some of
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
Got it now Rob. Thanks, I dropped into the middle of your thread and was confused. Sincerely, Tim Hutcheson Institute for Human and Machine Cognition University of West Florida 40 South Alcaniz St. Pensacola, FL 32501 - There are 10 types of people in the world; those that read binary and those that don't. -- Anonymous Poster -- -Original Message- From: Rob Young [mailto:ryoung35;mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:13 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed! Hi Tim, Below is a copy of the message Altium posted to the DXP forum today. I would still like to see the Simple BOM format include user defined fields as well. Rob Young --- Hi All, We have been discussing changes to the BOM format, but had decided to hold over the planned changes till SP2 since they will tie in with other output setup changes that are planned. In the meantime, we have prepared a new drop-in output generator that will produce the BOM in essentially the same format as P99SE. Like the additional netlisters, this additional reporter is simply dropped into your install. Once you have restarted DXP it will appear as 'Simple BOM' in the Reports menu, and in the Project Outputs dialog. Use the following link to download the new 'Simple BOM' reporter. http://www.protel.com/resources/downloads Copy the .DLL and .OUT file into your \Altium\System folder, restart DXP, and BOM away! The BOM can either be run on the project (in which case it uses the schematic), or on a PCB if it is opened directly (don't open the project first). You must Compile the project before you can generate the BOM (or if you are generating from the PCB, select Analyze Document). And yes, we would have made it do that bit automatically if we could have, you'll have to wait for SP2 for that. This reporter produces the BOM in a simple text format, and also in CSV format. The 2 BOM files are written to the Project Outputs sub-folder. regards, Phil - Original Message - From: Tim Hutcheson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed! did I miss something? What simple BOM generator? Sincerely, Tim Hutcheson Institute for Human and Machine Cognition University of West Florida 40 South Alcaniz St. Pensacola, FL 32501 - There are 10 types of people in the world; those that read binary and those that don't. -- Anonymous Poster -- -Original Message- From: Rob Young [mailto:ryoung35;mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:47 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed! Plus it is far superior to P99SE! I just ran a BOM with the new simple BOM generator and it is by far the best BOM output in Protel yet! In fact, I can just open the *.csv file in Excel and don't really have to modify anything. In the designator column, you can set the cell to wrap the text and adjust your column width. I have been wishing for this for years! That was quite a quick fix and we now have our quantity back again! Thanks Altium. Rob Young * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On 09:07 AM 18/10/2002 +1000, Ian Wilson said: ..snip.. Another issue for which maybe someone knows the answer. How do you globally add a schematic component parameter? Or come to that how you globaly edit them - they don't appear in the inspector. The query: IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1') Will gather all the 'Text Field1' parameters. Assuming you had Clear Existing and the Select check boxes checked (in the List Panel) before applying the query these will be selected and appear in the list panel. Just a little more on this. I originally had the above query as: IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field*') (note the wild card) That is why I used the Like operator. I then changed it to get just 'Text Filed1' parameter but did not change the Like operator. The original query could have been written as: IsParameter And (ParameterName = 'Text Field1') Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
did I miss something? What simple BOM generator? Sincerely, Tim Hutcheson Institute for Human and Machine Cognition University of West Florida 40 South Alcaniz St. Pensacola, FL 32501 - There are 10 types of people in the world; those that read binary and those that don't. -- Anonymous Poster -- -Original Message- From: Rob Young [mailto:ryoung35;mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:47 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed! Plus it is far superior to P99SE! I just ran a BOM with the new simple BOM generator and it is by far the best BOM output in Protel yet! In fact, I can just open the *.csv file in Excel and don't really have to modify anything. In the designator column, you can set the cell to wrap the text and adjust your column width. I have been wishing for this for years! That was quite a quick fix and we now have our quantity back again! Thanks Altium. Rob Young * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BOM output in DXP is now fixed!
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:56:25 +1000, Ian wrote:
What I'm getting at is I can open an existing 99SE project and only with
great difficulty generate a useable partlist with the information it
already contains. Another nail pinning 99SE on my system for eternity.
However, since the header row is included in the CSV file the extra
processing to extract the format of the following data is trivial -
Not that trivial.
Hmm - not sure about awk but this is not anything I would consider a show
stopper. Grabbing the headers and setting up hash tables or dynamic arrays
or whatever with the appropriate indices is an hour or so once off
change.
The whole csv to bom awk script is less than 80 lines of code. Parsing a
header to allow free ordering of columns then specifying fields by name
rather column might take another 40 lines.
It that is so trivial then the whole thing was trival yet it does a better
job than the Simple BOM Protel is being praised for supplying.
The lack of a recallable settings to allow a corporate standard format is a
much bigger reason to complain IMO.
Yes although if you did parse the headers you could just select all fields
to be output in no particular order.
I don't have Excel or any Microsoft applications installed - I find it
intensely annoying that DXP has a button named Excel.
That too - this one has been commented on in other places as well. Why
assume everyone is paying the MS ransom?
Grin - I'm not one for politically correct bullshit but when in comes to
'office applications' Microsoft isn't the only show in town and I object
strongly to anything which appears to give the impression they are.
I have this dick-head supplier who keeps emailing me 2 page quotes as
0.75MB MS Word documents. Not having Word installed at least means I don't
have to worry about embedded viri and trojans but when I convert them to
PDF they come out at 24kB - sheesh.
Ahh, ok I'll investigate. Slightly worrying because I notice sheets also
have parameters but from a quick test it seems they don't count as
parameters for IsParameter (no global editing of sheet parameters then?).
Did some more work on this.
Parameters (named 'Text Field1') added to:
1) Parameter Set
2) PCB Rule
3) Sheet Symbol
are all picked up by the above query. Not Sch sheets though - guess this
is bug.
Want a new query:
InComponent('*') And IsParameter And (ParameterName Like 'Text Field1')
You obviously know far more about the query system than I.
First thought comments is that the query system should be more OOP.
IsParameter should really be IsParameter(this) for example?
So the query could be
IsParameter(this) and IsComponent(Owner(this)) and
(ParameterName(this) Like 'Text Field1')
Maybe the (this) if missing is implied?
Don't take this seriously I am rambling from a postion of next to zero
knowledge.
Cheers, Terry.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html
*
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
