Re: [PEDA] Line or Track

2001-11-21 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 04:34 PM 11/21/01 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote:

Method 2  is better but may not work with a future release as really 
keepout tracks do not need a net assignment, but hopefully Protel will 
realise the problem and add Object Kind (with at least Keepout as an 
option) to the min/max rules scopes, or explicitly provide reliable 
support for such dummy nets.

In general, the decisions to limit rule scope to certain  criteria instead 
of all available criteria, like the decisions to limit what attributes of 
primitives are exported or what can be edited, lead occasionally to user 
frustration. If it is necessary to have some kind of safety lock, fine, it 
is only rare that we need what they have not provided, but when we need it, 
it can be *very* frustrating.

Width attributes of keepout track should not be DRC'd period. I think I'd 
also vote for automatic clearing of net assignment to it, but I could be 
convinced, I suppose, that one might want to define a keepout track with an 
assigned net as prohibiting all copper primitives *except* the track's net. 
But that could also have its problems, I think first of the routines that 
report track length, do they include net-assigned keepout track?

The existing problem, like many of the current Protel anomalies, is a 
result of Protel giving us a new feature, a very valuable feature indeed, 
one which we requested (layer-specific keepouts are one of the new things 
in Protel 99SE); but when something new is added, there are hosts of 
consequences which may not be forseen or discovered in Beta testing. So as 
long as the program is being functionally improved by the addition of new 
features, I expect there to be at least minor bugs, the kind that may take 
months or longer for us to discover.

There are those who fault Protel because there are bugs in the program, who 
consider that somehow Protel has ripped us off by allowing software with 
bugs to be released. I, for one, am grateful that they did not wait for 
perfection before releasing the software, and I hope that they continue to 
give at least equal priority to improving function and features. Yes, when 
a bug has been reported and it still remains through two subsequent service 
packs, someone has goofed, but, by my book, Protel has some slack until 
that point.

That there are a few such long-standing bugs shows that Protel's policies 
(I'm referring to the Protel programming group which may or may not share 
personnel with other Altium groups) can use improvement. We can encourage 
and help them by our work in clearly identifying bugs; we can extend this 
by giving priorities to the fixing of these bugs, as we did in the past 
with desired features.


[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Abdulrahman Lomax
Easthampton, Massachusetts USA

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Re: [PEDA] Line or Track

2001-11-20 Thread Ian Wilson

On 04:08 PM 21/11/2001 +1300, Wayne Trow said:
Hi All

I have placed a line on the top layer, 1mil thick and made it a keepout
line (in its property dialog box). Why, therefore, it is flagged as a width
constraint error when it is a line and a keepout line at that !

Are lines and tracks the same on signal layers?

THEY SHOULDN'T BE - ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE DEFINED AS A KEEPOUT.

Sorry - my cheese has almost completely fallen of my cracker !


Wayne


There is no difference between a line and a track once placed.  The only 
difference is the smarts that are applied *as the track is being 
placed*.  Tracks pick up net names of things they touch when first placed 
and are subject to the min-max design rule.  Lines don't have these smarts 
when first placed.

Placing a line frees it from the on-line DRC but it will still be caught by 
the batch DRC.

I think you have stumbled on an oversight, I would almost call it a bug 
(but not quite).  The problem is that there is no method of setting a 
min/max width rule with a scope that targets keepout tracks - you can't 
select by object kind in the width design rule.  There would seem to me to 
be two possible hacks to get rid of this DRC problem.  One is messy and the 
other relies on another oversight.

1) You could add min/max rules with Region scope and carefully select 
regions that encompass your keepout, (yuk yuk yuk!), or
2) Keepout tracks still seem to keep a net assignment, so add dummy 
KeepoutNet to the design, assign all your keepout tracks to this dummy net, 
then use a min/max rule with net (or netclass) scope to allow thin tracks 
only for thaose objects connected to that dummy net.

Method 2  is better but may not work with a future release as really 
keepout tracks do not need a net assignment, but hopefully Protel will 
realise the problem and add Object Kind (with at least Keepout as an 
option) to the min/max rules scopes, or explicitly provide reliable support 
for such dummy nets.  This use of a dummy net is another example where some 
special nets such as Free-Net to extend the current No-Net and 
special netlist/sych directives such as Don't delete during synchronizing 
would bear some careful thought and implementation.


Wayne - it seems to me you  may not be having the best of days today...
Ian Wilson

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