Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
At 09:35 PM 1/28/2002 -0500, Darryl Newberry wrote: Side note on OS's: sch_user running Windows 2000 Pro, pcb_user running Windows XP Pro. Side note on side note: that *might* be the crux of the problem. Protel 99SE was NOT written and tested for compatibility with WXP I'll repeat, also, one of my standard comments: where you are doing something that nearly everyone else does, you will almost always find that the program works either perfectly or very well. Off the beaten path there are more bugs and quirks. It's fairly obvious why, and one may scream and rail at Protel, but, if the software continues to develop new features -- and it must -- it will always be true that, relatively speaking, oft-used features are more reliable and stable. At some point we should run a good survey, but I'd guess that the large majority of us never have multi-user access to a single .ddb. So, even though it works (maybe), I'd hate to bet my company on it back up early and often. And squawk here if any aspect of it does not work, and to Protel if you want to frost the cake. That way, succeeding versions are more likely to be stable in this aspect. We are told we are getting at least one new storage option in Phoenix, lousy name but it's all we've got, plus the claim is that we will be able to work freely with bare files, no more obligatory .ddb. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
, synchronizer What is the problem with the synchronizer - I have not found anything I think is broken with it? It fails sometimes - well sort of anyway. On our relatively complex designs, update PCB sometimes misses out changes, we have a rule that it should be run 3 or more times to ensure all of the changes go across. Can't give any specific examples - its not me that drives it, but I've seen it happen. Jason. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
We've banned use of multiple users as it seems the semantics round it are broken. Under SP6: If use A opens the file, followed by user B, the file it not locked by default, user A must lock it manually (I'm sure unlike earlier versions) If user A forgets to lock it, B can open it, change it and save, when A later saves, B's changes are lost. Protel's muli-user controls are next to useless (and not integrated with windows users). Considering that this is one of the major selling points of P99, its a bit of a shame. Lets hope that this is one of the things that Protel 'fix' in Phoenix. j. -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 January 2002 12:35 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users At 09:35 PM 1/28/2002 -0500, Darryl Newberry wrote: Side note on OS's: sch_user running Windows 2000 Pro, pcb_user running Windows XP Pro. Side note on side note: that *might* be the crux of the problem. Protel 99SE was NOT written and tested for compatibility with WXP I'll repeat, also, one of my standard comments: where you are doing something that nearly everyone else does, you will almost always find that the program works either perfectly or very well. Off the beaten path there are more bugs and quirks. It's fairly obvious why, and one may scream and rail at Protel, but, if the software continues to develop new features -- and it must -- it will always be true that, relatively speaking, oft-used features are more reliable and stable. At some point we should run a good survey, but I'd guess that the large majority of us never have multi-user access to a single .ddb. So, even though it works (maybe), I'd hate to bet my company on it back up early and often. And squawk here if any aspect of it does not work, and to Protel if you want to frost the cake. That way, succeeding versions are more likely to be stable in this aspect. We are told we are getting at least one new storage option in Phoenix, lousy name but it's all we've got, plus the claim is that we will be able to work freely with bare files, no more obligatory .ddb. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
Darryl Sounds like you are attempting to have 2 different people do 2 different things to the same file at the same time (under the new Protel database structure). 1. Not a real good idea, and if you really want to do this on a regular basis, I would recommend your going back to the old file structure which uses individual files, and thus will not cause these problems. If you are sure that you want to do this, and keep the database file structure, you better define just who has what specific responsibility to what part of the database file, and how the two different people are going to integrate their joint design. 2. In theory, you should be able to share the file, and spefically the individual components of the database, which are infact files themselves, but Protel does not seem to understand that sometimes, and sometimes simply cannot seem to find the file (especially if it is already opened by another process). I say sometimes here because it appears that Protel is not completely consistant in it's behavior all of the time when it comes to multiple instances or processes and file sharing, (at least with my installation). JaMi Smith Optical Crossing Inc. * * * * * -Original Message- From: Darryl Newberry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:23 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Multiple database users We have a two-seat license. I can't seem to get the 2nd user logging into the DDB. I set a password for user Admin, then added 2 users and passwords with full privileges (R,W,D,C). I'll call them pcb_user and sch_user. The database is stored on pcb_user's hard drive, I'll call it pcb.ddb. When pcb_user opens pcb.dbb he gets a logon box. He enters his user name and password and the ddb loads fine. When sch_user tries to open the ddb he doesn't get the logon box, he gets the new design database dialog with the file name filled in as pcb1.ddb. Apparently Protel wants to open a copy of it instead of sharing. How do I correct this behavior to allow sch_user to open the database stored on pcb_user's computer? Darryl Newberry Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court N St Petersburg FL 33716 (727) 803-8000 tel (727) 803-8001 fax http://www.freedomscientific.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
JaMi, Thanks for the info. It seems that every time I use a Protel feature other than basic sch pcb editing features, there is always some weird problem, limitation, or crash associated with it. The list so far includes simulation, library mgmt, autoroute, synchronizer, 3D view, and now sharing, and probably some more stuff I can't think of right now. But it works well enough to build boards, and that is the whole point I suppose. Anway, back on topic, it seems the sharing problem corrected itself... Sequence of events/actions: 1. pcb_user opens the DDB locally, gets login box as expected. 2. sch_user unable to open remotely, Protel wants to open a copy instead. 3. pcb_user closes the DDB, exits Protel. 4. sch_user opens the DDB remotely, does not get login box, but now able to successfully open the DDB on the remote computer. 5. sch_user closes the DDB. 6. Now, upon opening the DDB, both users get login box, i.e. DDB is shared correctly. Strange bug. Perhaps the bigger story in this experience...In the midst of this there was a dreaded GPF on sch_user while attempting to open the DDB remotely. Upon opening the DDB on pcb_user we were horrified to see that THE ENTIRE 27MB DDB WAS EMPTY! We were relieved that we had previously enabled auto-save--we were able to restore the DDB by importing the discrete backup files. Whew! Close one. Side note on OS's: sch_user running Windows 2000 Pro, pcb_user running Windows XP Pro. -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 20:31 To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users Darryl Sounds like you are attempting to have 2 different people do 2 different things to the same file at the same time (under the new Protel database structure). 1. Not a real good idea, and if you really want to do this on a regular basis, I would recommend your going back to the old file structure which uses individual files, and thus will not cause these problems. If you are sure that you want to do this, and keep the database file structure, you better define just who has what specific responsibility to what part of the database file, and how the two different people are going to integrate their joint design. 2. In theory, you should be able to share the file, and spefically the individual components of the database, which are infact files themselves, but Protel does not seem to understand that sometimes, and sometimes simply cannot seem to find the file (especially if it is already opened by another process). I say sometimes here because it appears that Protel is not completely consistant in it's behavior all of the time when it comes to multiple instances or processes and file sharing, (at least with my installation). JaMi Smith Optical Crossing Inc. * * * * * -Original Message- From: Darryl Newberry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:23 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Multiple database users We have a two-seat license. I can't seem to get the 2nd user logging into the DDB. I set a password for user Admin, then added 2 users and passwords with full privileges (R,W,D,C). I'll call them pcb_user and sch_user. The database is stored on pcb_user's hard drive, I'll call it pcb.ddb. When pcb_user opens pcb.dbb he gets a logon box. He enters his user name and password and the ddb loads fine. When sch_user tries to open the ddb he doesn't get the logon box, he gets the new design database dialog with the file name filled in as pcb1.ddb. Apparently Protel wants to open a copy of it instead of sharing. How do I correct this behavior to allow sch_user to open the database stored on pcb_user's computer? Darryl Newberry Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court N St Petersburg FL 33716 (727) 803-8000 tel (727) 803-8001 fax http://www.freedomscientific.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
What is the problem with the synchronizer - I have not found anything I think is broken with it? Forward works OK I guess for most things. I've seen it occasionally not update PCB footprints consistently, as discussed elsewhere on the list. Reverse--lotsa luck! Macros not supported, etc. Again, useful enough, but not the all-singing all-dancing that is touted in the sales literature. PCAD of old (DOS v 4.5?) actually back-annotated electrical changes to the schematic, if they weren't too severe. Much better for optimizing the layout. Fully supported component, pin, and gate swaps, even for connectors. You could easily get into serious confusion though...but hey, it didn't prevent you from doing so! :-) Darryl Newberry Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court N St Petersburg FL 33716 (727) 803-8000 tel (727) 803-8001 fax http://www.freedomscientific.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Multiple database users
Darryl, Darryl Newberry wrote: Side note on OS's: sch_user running Windows 2000 Pro, pcb_user running Windows XP Pro. I suppose this side note hits the point. Not really sure who to punish for this bug, Protel or µsoft! What I can state is that we also work with the ddb structure and the ddb's all are set up for multi user with different privileges. No such problems with this up to now. We all have NT4 on our workstations and a separate NT4 server storing all hot data with daily backup. What I'm missing on the multi user setup is an intelligent file locking feauture to prevent interfering changes to individual files within the ddb. The manual file locking is not what I'm dreaming of - especially when you have to unlock the file for each file save even if you are the user that locked this particular file for exclusive editing. In early P99 versions saving of locked files was possible for the user that locked them. This was lost with one of the early service packs and never brought back even not when I reported this together with some ideas for improving the file locking functionality to protel europe. I did this two or three times by phone and email and besides the oh, good idea comment on the phone never got a useful answer. So, long speech short meaning: The Workgroup feauture seems to be another of those promising marketing arguments for the Protel sales people that is not in the main focus of the Protel programmers! Despite this I keep on setting up ddb's as multi user capable hoping the day comes that it really becomes useful! (As long one is able to dream, his soul is living) Emanuel -- MPL AG www.mpl.ch Emanuel Zimmermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager RD Phone: +41 (0)56 483 34 34 Taefernstrasse 20 Fax: +41 (0)56 493 30 20 CH-5405 Daettwil * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
