Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
According to IPC-T-50: Printed Circuit Board - A printed board that provides both point-to-point connections and printed components in a predetermined arrangement on a common base. ( See also Printed Wiring Board.) Printed Wiring Board - A printed board that provides both point-to-point connections, but not printed components, in a predetermined arrangement on a common base. ( See also Printed Circuit Board.) Printed Circuit Board Assembly - An assembly that uses a printed circuit board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. Printed Wiring Board Assembly - An assembly that uses a printed wiring board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. Therefore, according to the above, what most of us call pc boards are actually pw boards. Regards, Steve Smith Product Engineer Staco Energy Products Co. Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
In documenting we use PCB for bare board and PCB Assembly. In memos and general talk we use bare board and assembly. Bob Bauer Sr. Designer Cardinal Scale Mfg. Co. -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
PCB's are what we make money for, while PCA's are what our companies make money for. Shawn - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:47 PM Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
So what is a printed component? Steve Smith wrote: According to IPC-T-50: Printed Circuit Board - A printed board that provides both point-to-point connections and printed components in a predetermined arrangement on a common base. ( See also Printed Wiring Board.) Printed Wiring Board - A printed board that provides both point-to-point connections, but not printed components, in a predetermined arrangement on a common base. ( See also Printed Circuit Board.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Ian, There is an industry standard that does define these terms, the IPC. Look at IPC-T-50 Terms and Definitions for Interconnecting and Packaging Electronic Circuits PCB PWB have in the past (old school) been interchangeable in meaning Printed Circuit Board Printed Wiring Board and generally mean the bare fabricated board, as you said. However IPC in T-50 does make a distinction between PCB PWB a Printed Wiring Board (PWB) as one that does not unclude Printed Components though, and Printed Circuit Board (PCB) as one that can contain Printed Components. It kinda makes sense wiring is just wiring and circuit includes parts. PWA is the assembly using as one of its parts the PCB or PWB. T-50 defines Printed Wiring Board Assembly as An assembly that uses a printed wiring board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. it also defines Printed Circuit Board Assembly as An assembly that uses a printed circuit board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. So I guess whether or not you define the bare board as a PCB or PWB depends on whether you have a PCB assembly or a PWB assembly. Hope this helps. Bob Robert M. Wolfe, C.I.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:47 PM Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Ian, in my neck of the woods here are the most common terms that I run across. PCB (Printed Circuit Board) - raw bare board PCBA (Printed Circuit Board Assembly) - assembled PCB with components. Probably due to an outdated local anomaly, we would never see PWA in our neck of the woods. Formerly it was the acronym for an airline, Pacific Western Airlines. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com See us at Booth 323 at Satellite 2002 in Washington, DC March 6-8. -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, snip How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Perhaps it's mere academic foolishness to state that, at high speeds, the wiring *itself* is a component. I guess what I really want to say is what's the point. I would hope that everybody who needs to know understands the difference. Certainly all the list participants. Another pointless pedantic academic discussion unrelated to getting the job done. Here's my perspective: I just pulled an all-nighter manually rerouting due to a 0.5mm pitch FFC connector that got wired 180 degrees out. I discovered the problem at 11PM. By 5:30AM I had the board ripped up, re-placed, re-routed and ready for CAM. At 5:45AM when I realized I hadn't saved in a long stretch, I hit Alt-F-S. At this, Protel 99SE locked up and the previous couple of hours' work was lost. Shame on me for working too hard. Shame on me for not hitting Alt-F-S more often. Shame on me for not having auto-save turned on because database sharing doesn't work right and I didn't want to accidentally overwrite the other guy's work...but...SHAME ON PROTEL FOR PROVIDING UNSTABLE, FLAKY-ASS, SO-CALLED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SOFTWARE THAT ROBS ME OF MY TIME aND my BEAUTY SLEEP! Well, I'm going back to work now. I'm busy designing actual boards for actual commercial products that have to be fabbed, stuffed, tested, and installed in those actual products over the next few weeks. Y'all have a nice time chatting about IPC this and that, m'kay? -Original Message- From: Bob Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:06 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? Ian, There is an industry standard that does define these terms, the IPC. Look at IPC-T-50 Terms and Definitions for Interconnecting and Packaging Electronic Circuits PCB PWB have in the past (old school) been interchangeable in meaning Printed Circuit Board Printed Wiring Board and generally mean the bare fabricated board, as you said. However IPC in T-50 does make a distinction between PCB PWB a Printed Wiring Board (PWB) as one that does not unclude Printed Components though, and Printed Circuit Board (PCB) as one that can contain Printed Components. It kinda makes sense wiring is just wiring and circuit includes parts. PWA is the assembly using as one of its parts the PCB or PWB. T-50 defines Printed Wiring Board Assembly as An assembly that uses a printed wiring board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. it also defines Printed Circuit Board Assembly as An assembly that uses a printed circuit board for component mounting and interconnecting purposes. So I guess whether or not you define the bare board as a PCB or PWB depends on whether you have a PCB assembly or a PWB assembly. Hope this helps. Bob Robert M. Wolfe, C.I.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:47 PM Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
darryl says: SHAME ON PROTEL FOR PROVIDING UNSTABLE, FLAKY-ASS, SO-CALLED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SOFTWARE THAT ROBS ME OF MY TIME aND my BEAUTY SLEEP! sorry to hear you lost your work. but i have never used any software packages (other than a few small utilities) that don't occasionally crash. before i installed protel's sp6 i had a lot of crashes too. i've probably got over 400 hours of protel usage now on a new NT4 machine with no crashes or lockups. not bad. darryl says more: Well, I'm going back to work now. I'm busy designing actual boards for actual commercial products that have to be fabbed, stuffed, tested, and installed in those actual products over the next few weeks. Y'all have a nice time chatting about IPC this and that, m'kay? it was my understanding that most of the people on this list do printed circuit boards. it certainly seems like it. i've done 4 boards in the last 2 weeks. of course, they probably have more time to post because they back up their files and don't have to spend time redoing their work. ;-) miker * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
At 11:29 AM 2/20/2002 -0500, Darryl Newberry wrote: Shame on me for working too hard. Shame on me for not hitting Alt-F-S more often. Shame on me for not having auto-save turned on because database sharing doesn't work right and I didn't want to accidentally overwrite the other guy's work...but...SHAME ON PROTEL FOR PROVIDING UNSTABLE, FLAKY-ASS, SO-CALLED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING SOFTWARE THAT ROBS ME OF MY TIME aND my BEAUTY SLEEP! Been there, done that, except for the sharing part. I'd recommend, to work on the files in a shared database, locking it in the database (making it read-only, which may involved moving it to a directory where permissions can be manipulated) and then moving it to one's own, not shared, ddb. It could then be moved back when done, and autosave would not cause a problem. But since I have not personally faced this problem, I'm just another back-seat driver, this may not work or there may be easier ways. There used to be a problem that if one had stacked commands -- if you want to know about stacked commands -- autosave would be disabled, I found out to my regret, perhaps about four hours worth of regret. I don't know that this has been fixed, it is not necessarily easy to fix. The reason is that stacked commands mean that one is in the middle of changing the PCB, and Protel did not want the file to be saved until it an individual edit was done. I can't say that I disagree with that, but Protel should have given us warning, after a decent pause, that autosave was unable to function because we had pending commands. *That* would not have been difficult, I would think. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Most of what I would say on this has already been said by others. PWB was widely used in military electronics, where they tended to be sticklers for detail. PCB was widely used, however, in commercial electronics, where the distinction between wiring and circuit was mostly ignored. It is clear that the standard name for what most of us design is printed wiring boards, PWBs, what Mr. Saputelli called the fab. The assembly is then a Printed Wiring Assembly, that is, a PWB with added parts. Printed Circuit only has cachet from usage, a usage that was unconsidered, it would be better if we said goodbye to it, without becoming language nazis. A circuit is not just the wiring, it is a loop, or possibly the non-power portion of the loop which completes the loop. The question was asked about true printed circuit boards. These boards have features, etched in copper or otherwise incorporated into the board as part of the fabrication process, which are not merely wires, they have electronic functions and they will properly appear on the schematic and will have footprints; examples are resistors, inductors, capacitors, mixers, delay lines. We have discussed methods for keeping shorts on these parts open for DRC purposes. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Abdul, Since I am somewhat new to the electronics industry, and to PCB Design, I am a little miffed by some of your statements below, and specifically the one where you state: A circuit is not just the wiring, it is a loop, or possibly the non-power portion of the loop which completes the loop. Could you please explain what you mean by this loop thing that you are talking about? Thanks, JaMi Smith -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:02 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? Most of what I would say on this has already been said by others. PWB was widely used in military electronics, where they tended to be sticklers for detail. PCB was widely used, however, in commercial electronics, where the distinction between wiring and circuit was mostly ignored. It is clear that the standard name for what most of us design is printed wiring boards, PWBs, what Mr. Saputelli called the fab. The assembly is then a Printed Wiring Assembly, that is, a PWB with added parts. Printed Circuit only has cachet from usage, a usage that was unconsidered, it would be better if we said goodbye to it, without becoming language nazis. A circuit is not just the wiring, it is a loop, or possibly the non-power portion of the loop which completes the loop. The question was asked about true printed circuit boards. These boards have features, etched in copper or otherwise incorporated into the board as part of the fabrication process, which are not merely wires, they have electronic functions and they will properly appear on the schematic and will have footprints; examples are resistors, inductors, capacitors, mixers, delay lines. We have discussed methods for keeping shorts on these parts open for DRC purposes. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
It's all symantics guys, PWB = PCB, PWA = PCA. Where the B always equals Board and the A always equals Assembled. Individual companies want to be standardized in their nomenclature, which helps them get the boards designed, fabbed and assembled with minimum delay, I'm sure we all can and do agree with that. Every company is different in this respect, whatever they want to call it, it's all good. I think the original phrase Printed Wiring Board came from when all that was available was the base material, they would attach components (thru-hole and vacuum tubes and such) and then techs would use discrete wires to hook everything together. Much like today's bread-board. A wire could be a trace on an etched board or a real hard-wired connection, which would have to be installed in case the designer missed a necessary trace connection. ~j - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? Abdul, Since I am somewhat new to the electronics industry, and to PCB Design, I am a little miffed by some of your statements below, and specifically the one where you state: A circuit is not just the wiring, it is a loop, or possibly the non-power portion of the loop which completes the loop. Could you please explain what you mean by this loop thing that you are talking about? Thanks, JaMi Smith -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:02 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? Most of what I would say on this has already been said by others. PWB was widely used in military electronics, where they tended to be sticklers for detail. PCB was widely used, however, in commercial electronics, where the distinction between wiring and circuit was mostly ignored. It is clear that the standard name for what most of us design is printed wiring boards, PWBs, what Mr. Saputelli called the fab. The assembly is then a Printed Wiring Assembly, that is, a PWB with added parts. Printed Circuit only has cachet from usage, a usage that was unconsidered, it would be better if we said goodbye to it, without becoming language nazis. A circuit is not just the wiring, it is a loop, or possibly the non-power portion of the loop which completes the loop. The question was asked about true printed circuit boards. These boards have features, etched in copper or otherwise incorporated into the board as part of the fabrication process, which are not merely wires, they have electronic functions and they will properly appear on the schematic and will have footprints; examples are resistors, inductors, capacitors, mixers, delay lines. We have discussed methods for keeping shorts on these parts open for DRC purposes. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
On 03:47 PM 2/20/2002 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote: How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) Printed circuit board, ie, FR4 or other base material(s), etched and/or plated with a very thin layer of metal to form an electrical circuit. Specifically, one that has already undergone the etching and/or plating process, and may or may not have been populated (stuffed), as opposed to PCB material (which would be the FR-4 or similar material, pre-plated or otherwise. PWA (printed wiring assembly) I personally view PWA (used to describe the almost universally accepted PCB) as an anachronism, a left-over from the days when computers were devices that resembled small power plants. The ONLY time I have heard a term like PWA that made sense to me was when I was first investigating the purchase of a prototyping machine for my work at NASA, and stumbled on a company which had a process for producing MCMs and the like, which used(s) a plotter type machine to deposit suspended conductive materials (gold, silver, etc.) and non-conductive materials onto a substrate, which was subsequently baked to off-gas the carrier and form a stable circuit of gold, silver, etc... I believe the company originally created the tools for making precision resistors, but began selling the fabrication machinery as well, desinged in part thru a DARPA effort to protect critical military components from obsolescence. That is, printed wiring is just that, it is printed onto a substrate. (My take) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Generally, either board or the working name of the finished assembly (what they do) (soundcard, KHz-rate spark generator, motherboard, tuner, transmitter, ignition timer, 8-chan diff amp subassembly, servo amp, 18-118A, etc., etc.), though generically, I would still refer to all of them as PCBs, whether bare or populated/stuffed, but that's just me. PCBA or printed circuit board assembly is basically a generic form, though I would personally only rarely use that particular abbreviation. aj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Is this what this forum does? Sit and discuss what a printed circuit board is? I thought I could get some useful information here. Len - Original Message - From: Andrew Jenkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? On 03:47 PM 2/20/2002 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote: How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) Printed circuit board, ie, FR4 or other base material(s), etched and/or plated with a very thin layer of metal to form an electrical circuit. Specifically, one that has already undergone the etching and/or plating process, and may or may not have been populated (stuffed), as opposed to PCB material (which would be the FR-4 or similar material, pre-plated or otherwise. PWA (printed wiring assembly) I personally view PWA (used to describe the almost universally accepted PCB) as an anachronism, a left-over from the days when computers were devices that resembled small power plants. The ONLY time I have heard a term like PWA that made sense to me was when I was first investigating the purchase of a prototyping machine for my work at NASA, and stumbled on a company which had a process for producing MCMs and the like, which used(s) a plotter type machine to deposit suspended conductive materials (gold, silver, etc.) and non-conductive materials onto a substrate, which was subsequently baked to off-gas the carrier and form a stable circuit of gold, silver, etc... I believe the company originally created the tools for making precision resistors, but began selling the fabrication machinery as well, desinged in part thru a DARPA effort to protect critical military components from obsolescence. That is, printed wiring is just that, it is printed onto a substrate. (My take) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Generally, either board or the working name of the finished assembly (what they do) (soundcard, KHz-rate spark generator, motherboard, tuner, transmitter, ignition timer, 8-chan diff amp subassembly, servo amp, 18-118A, etc., etc.), though generically, I would still refer to all of them as PCBs, whether bare or populated/stuffed, but that's just me. PCBA or printed circuit board assembly is basically a generic form, though I would personally only rarely use that particular abbreviation. aj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
On 04:13 PM 20/02/2002 -0800, Leonard Gabrielson said: Is this what this forum does? Sit and discuss what a printed circuit board is? I thought I could get some useful information here. Len Yep - we are a bunch of overpaid time wasting bums... Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
fab = bare board pca = built board pcb = not specific to either of above board = ditto pwb = a dweeb term for fab, never used by cool guys pwa i never saw/heard that one Dennis Saputelli Ian Wilson wrote: G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
My $0.02c is that any acronym that ends in B for board relates to the basic entity to which components are assembled. Any acronym ending in A for assembly relates to the board plus components. So I don't care whether you call it a PCB or PWB - it's a bare board. A PWA or PCA is the output from the reflow oven... Just a personal opinion, mind you... My personal usage would be PCB and PCA John Haddy -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2002 3:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
-Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? clip How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) newer way to define the bare board PWA (printed wiring assembly) old way to define the bare board What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? assembled PCB :) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you?
Hello Ian, Generally, from IPC-T-50, both PCB and PWB are subsets of the more generic term Printed Board. PWBs providing point to point wiring only, PCBs providing printed circuit elements. Printed Board Assembly, PBA, refers to the assembled board with all of its components. (although I've also come across CCA, Circuit Card Assembly to describe this as well.) We generally use PB for the bare board, and PBA for the assembly. regards, Phil. -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2002 15:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] What does printed circuit board mean to you? G'Day all, I was having an email discussion the recently... We use the term printed circuit board (or PCB) to describe the bare board (no components fitted) and the term printed wiring assembly (PWA) for the assembly (PCB + components). Some of the younger colleagues around here are comfortable with PCB and assembled PCB as meaing the board and the board+components respectively. (One of the older school here use the term PWB (printed wiring board) interchangeably with PCB. And PCA (printed wiring assembly) interchangeably with PWA. No guessing which industry he came from...) How do others interpret the following terms? PCB (printed circuit board) PWA (printed wiring assembly) What term(s) do you use for the assembled PCB? Hooroo, Ian Wilson (Maybe the Topic Police will get cranky over this flagrant mis-use of electrons but we can move to the OT list if it gets out of hand.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
