Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-13 Thread Mark E Witherite

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Bob Fearon
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 12:22 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ?? At 09:44 AM 11/9/01 -0700, Bob Fearon wrote: Abdul-Rahman Yes I have seen an inner plane layer come all the way out to an edge. The design was supposed

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 11:26 AM 11/12/01 -0700, Bob Fearon wrote: Guts Sorry to mislead, the additional cost came from routing the boards out of the panels and then plating. Ah. *That's why it was so expensive.* A whole extra step to be performed on a bunch of small boards instead of on the panel. I'd

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Jon Elson
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: It should not have been much more expensive. In fact, as I recall, depending on the process, panel edges plate if you don't do something to prevent it! Yes, that is true. But, because of the way boards are made, the edge of the panel is cut away in the routing

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Jon Elson
Brad Velander wrote: My 2 cents worth, since we do this regularily. The edge plating will make a significant difference in board emmisions with GHz frequency signals depending on the board material used. It gets worse the higher your frequencies go. The problem is that the board

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Jon Elson
Brad Velander wrote: My 2 cents worth, since we do this regularily. The edge plating will make a significant difference in board emmisions with GHz frequency signals depending on the board material used. It gets worse the higher your frequencies go. The problem is that the board

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-12 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 02:28 PM 11/12/01 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: It should not have been much more expensive. In fact, as I recall, depending on the process, panel edges plate if you don't do something to prevent it! Yes, that is true. But, because of the way boards are made, the

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Stephen Casey
Has anyone reading this received fabricated boards with no inner plane clearance? Was it from an established fabricator? (I'd be surprised if it *never* happened, but I would also be surprised if it was at all common.) Abd, Yes, I have received boards with no clearance. My mistake on my

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Ian Wilson
On 10:37 AM 9/11/2001 +, Stephen Casey said: Has anyone reading this received fabricated boards with no inner plane clearance? Was it from an established fabricator? (I'd be surprised if it *never* happened, but I would also be surprised if it was at all common.) Abd, Yes, I have

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Bob Fearon
Abdul-Rahman Yes I have seen an inner plane layer come all the way out to an edge. The design was supposed to be better for RF, but made no difference in board performance. The two outside layers were plated aound the edge and shorted ( on purpose ) to the inner layer. This was a

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:44 AM 11/9/01 -0700, Bob Fearon wrote: Abdul-Rahman Yes I have seen an inner plane layer come all the way out to an edge. The design was supposed to be better for RF, but made no difference in board performance. The two outside layers were plated aound the edge and

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Brad Velander
- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 12:22 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ?? At 09:44 AM 11/9/01 -0700, Bob Fearon wrote: Abdul-Rahman Yes I have seen an inner plane layer come all the way out to an edge

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-09 Thread Frank Gilley
My experience with planes-to-the-edge has been this... to date, no one has ever sent me a board that has both power and ground all the way out to the edge whether I pulled the planes back in the gerbers or not. It appears to be pretty much SOP. However, I have received almost all the boards that

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Dennis Saputelli
draw pimitives (lines) on the planes around the perimeter to exclude copper in those areas the keepout doesn't limit the plane copper you generally want more than a few mils back off from the boundary, we usually place a 50 mil line on the center of the outline on the plane layer we generally

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Ian Wilson
On 03:29 PM 8/11/2001 -0500, Robison Michael R CNIN said: hello, my questions: 1. the dark green i'm seeing represents the negative, or holes, in the power plane, correct? Correct 2. after simply drawing the keepoutlayer back in, i am not seeing the dark green power plane void outside the

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Peter Bennett
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote: my questions: 1. the dark green i'm seeing represents the negative, or holes, in the power plane, correct? Yes 2. after simply drawing the keepoutlayer back in, i am not seeing the dark green power plane void outside the keepoutlayer. does this mean

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Dwight
Even without the card guides, you could get a short from slivers of copper left when the boards are cut. I was lucky -- on my first board with planes, I didn't know about putting traces along the edges, but the board shop called asked if we'd like them to pull the planes back from the board

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Dennis Saputelli
technically and to be pedantic you should say Place Line (not track) Dennis Saputelli Ian Wilson wrote: On 03:29 PM 8/11/2001 -0500, Robison Michael R CNIN said: hello, my questions: 1. the dark green i'm seeing represents the negative, or holes, in the power plane, correct?

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Robison Michael R CNIN
Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:00 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ?? technically and to be pedantic you should say Place Line (not track) Dennis Saputelli Ian Wilson wrote: On 03:29 PM 8/11/2001 -0500, Robison

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 01:40 PM 11/8/01 -0800, Dwight wrote: I didn't know about putting traces along the edges, but the board shop called asked if we'd like them to pull the planes back from the board edges! So having a good board shop can pay off... I've understood that board shops know that you *never* want

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 02:00 PM 11/8/01 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote: technically and to be pedantic you should say Place Line (not track) It is not merely pedantic. A very frequent question is I'm trying to place a wide track (perhaps for the power plane clearance) and I can't place it on an inner plane and

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Jon Elson
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote: hello, we're duplicating some legacy boards. in order to avoid flight testing i hand-routed the traces to match the old artwork. i believe that i just came close to making a SERIOUS mistake. i used the pcb wizard to generate the board but then hand-editted

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Mark Richards
Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ?? At 05:32 PM 11/8/01 -0500, Mike Reagan wrote: you scare me man thinking that you are design aircraft components and dont know how to use the progam I think you better fligt test

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 06:02 PM 11/8/01 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: What you need to do is place rectangular fills all around the edges of the board to hold the power planes out of that area. This is what I've been doing for years. The practice of copying the outline track to the inner planes, as described by

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Dennis Saputelli
PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ?? At 06:02 PM 11/8/01 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: What you need to do is place rectangular fills all around the edges of the board to hold the power

Re: [PEDA] keepoutlayer and planes ??

2001-11-08 Thread Ian Wilson
At 07:59 PM 8/11/01 -0600, you wrote: Someone please correct me if I am wrong, Consider yourself corrected :-) Ian Wilson but I thought that the power plane clearance rule in the manufacturing section also included clearance from the keepout layer around the edge of the board. So far, I have