Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
Since we need only about 5-10 seconds of smoke (Skywriting isn't really on the menu) could we just drown a glo-plug in a small tank of 'fog-fluid' (glycol/water) and control it with a relay? (This probably needs a less expl--um--messy design cycle...) Here is nice overview of smoke generating technology... (On a *different* wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog (Yes, yet another excuse to play with LN_2) Typical(?) MSDS for commercial fog-fluids: http://www.wfrfire.com/msds/fog.htm http://www.rosco.com/includes/technotes/msds/fog/clearfog.pdf On 10/07/2010 01:07 PM, Dave Camarillo wrote: Humm, bummer, I was hoping it would be an easy COTS part... Well, we were talking about the possibility of using a RC glo-plug as a heating element, so perhaps the COTS pump in conjunction with the glo-plug would do the trick On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Aaron Burt aa...@bavariati.org mailto:aa...@bavariati.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:12:11PM -0700, Dave Camarillo wrote: So at one point we were talking about putting a smoke generator on the rocket above the control surfaces so that we could see the aerodynamic affects of the canards and fins. I came across a COTS smoke generator online, it would be pretty cool if that were on board the rocket... Note: that's only a pump for injecting oil into the muffler of a 2-stoke hobby engine. Won't work so well without a heat source. ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu mailto:psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
Very cool. Especially the programability. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Dave Camarillo dave.camari...@gmail.com wrote: So at one point we were talking about putting a smoke generator on the rocket above the control surfaces so that we could see the aerodynamic affects of the canards and fins. I came across a COTS smoke generator online, it would be pretty cool if that were on board the rocket... http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SOT1261 or http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SUL753 ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:12:11PM -0700, Dave Camarillo wrote: So at one point we were talking about putting a smoke generator on the rocket above the control surfaces so that we could see the aerodynamic affects of the canards and fins. I came across a COTS smoke generator online, it would be pretty cool if that were on board the rocket... Note: that's only a pump for injecting oil into the muffler of a 2-stoke hobby engine. Won't work so well without a heat source. ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
On 10/07/2010 01:24 PM, Jeremy Booth wrote: There's this little guy, but it looks like smaller foggers (this included) are way too expensive. What about pyrotechnics (I'm thinking of 4th of July smoke bombs)? It seems like you don't really need start/stop/start capability, as long as you can set off a smoke bomb above each fin in succession so you can investigate different speeds or whatever. -- Mersenne Law LLC · www.mersenne.com · +1-503-679-1671 - Small Business, Startup and Intellectual Property Law - 1500 SW First Ave. · Suite 1170 · Portland, Oregon 97201 ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
Humm, interesting... It says that it's based on a vaporization principle, where as I think the type we we're thinking of is based on combustion by products... It may work though... On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Jeremy Booth jboo...@gmail.com wrote: There's this little guy, but it looks like smaller foggers (this included) are way too expensive. http://www.theatrefx.com/moreinfo_fg90_tiny_fogger_fog_machine.html On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Dave Camarillo dave.camari...@gmail.com wrote: Humm, bummer, I was hoping it would be an easy COTS part... Well, we were talking about the possibility of using a RC glo-plug as a heating element, so perhaps the COTS pump in conjunction with the glo-plug would do the trick On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Aaron Burt aa...@bavariati.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:12:11PM -0700, Dave Camarillo wrote: So at one point we were talking about putting a smoke generator on the rocket above the control surfaces so that we could see the aerodynamic affects of the canards and fins. I came across a COTS smoke generator online, it would be pretty cool if that were on board the rocket... Note: that's only a pump for injecting oil into the muffler of a 2-stoke hobby engine. Won't work so well without a heat source. ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
I used to poke at pyrotechnics, but smoke was never my big thing. I was more into colors and flashes. That said, I bet I could have some reasonable stuff fairly easily, and I think someone else mentioned this as well. Heat would be a big issue, as might timing. I remember pyro smoke being rather touchy to ignite. I'm wondering now if there isn't a pressure dependency, much like our solid motors, but I bet we could have reliability. I was thinking about the CA + cellulose reaction, and how that might be leveraged, but that's not nearly as easily manipulated as an electric match. Honestly, smoke balls in an apparatus for precise ignition might work rather well... On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:01 PM, David Madden d...@mersenne.com wrote: On 10/07/2010 01:24 PM, Jeremy Booth wrote: There's this little guy, but it looks like smaller foggers (this included) are way too expensive. What about pyrotechnics (I'm thinking of 4th of July smoke bombs)? It seems like you don't really need start/stop/start capability, as long as you can set off a smoke bomb above each fin in succession so you can investigate different speeds or whatever. -- Mersenne Law LLC · www.mersenne.com · +1-503-679-1671 - Small Business, Startup and Intellectual Property Law - 1500 SW First Ave. · Suite 1170 · Portland, Oregon 97201 ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
This has definitely been done, but being able to start and stop it allows for low cost long term use, as a cheep bottle of fluid will last an extended period, as well as allows for testing on the ground... On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:01 PM, David Madden d...@mersenne.com wrote: On 10/07/2010 01:24 PM, Jeremy Booth wrote: There's this little guy, but it looks like smaller foggers (this included) are way too expensive. What about pyrotechnics (I'm thinking of 4th of July smoke bombs)? It seems like you don't really need start/stop/start capability, as long as you can set off a smoke bomb above each fin in succession so you can investigate different speeds or whatever. -- Mersenne Law LLC · www.mersenne.com · +1-503-679-1671 - Small Business, Startup and Intellectual Property Law - 1500 SW First Ave. · Suite 1170 · Portland, Oregon 97201 ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
You can make a similar compound to the ones used in 4th style and smoke bombs and real smoke grenades by caramelizing powdered sugar and adding salt petter. The cool thing about that is you can pour the compound into what ever storage / delivery vessel you like. It works very well, a pop can sized amount can fully obscure a four way intersection fairly quickly. Im sure we would need to play with the ignition method though i've usually seen it done by sticking a cannon fuse in the compound... Sent remotely On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:01 PM, David Madden d...@mersenne.com wrote: On 10/07/2010 01:24 PM, Jeremy Booth wrote: There's this little guy, but it looks like smaller foggers (this included) are way too expensive. What about pyrotechnics (I'm thinking of 4th of July smoke bombs)? It seems like you don't really need start/stop/start capability, as long as you can set off a smoke bomb above each fin in succession so you can investigate different speeds or whatever. -- Mersenne Law LLC · www.mersenne.com · +1-503-679-1671 - Small Business, Startup and Intellectual Property Law - 1500 SW First Ave. · Suite 1170 · Portland, Oregon 97201 ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
Since we need only about 5-10 seconds of smoke (Skywriting isn't really on the menu) could we just drown a glo-plug in a small tank of 'fog-fluid' (glycol/water) and control it with a relay? (This probably needs a less expl--um--messy design cycle...) Here is nice overview of smoke generating technology... (On a *different* wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_smoke_and_fog (Yes, yet another excuse to play with LN_2) Typical(?) MSDS for commercial fog-fluids: http://www.wfrfire.com/msds/fog.htm http://www.rosco.com/includes/technotes/msds/fog/clearfog.pdf On 10/07/2010 01:07 PM, Dave Camarillo wrote: Humm, bummer, I was hoping it would be an easy COTS part... Well, we were talking about the possibility of using a RC glo-plug as a heating element, so perhaps the COTS pump in conjunction with the glo-plug would do the trick On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Aaron Burt aa...@bavariati.org mailto:aa...@bavariati.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:12:11PM -0700, Dave Camarillo wrote: So at one point we were talking about putting a smoke generator on the rocket above the control surfaces so that we could see the aerodynamic affects of the canards and fins. I came across a COTS smoke generator online, it would be pretty cool if that were on board the rocket... Note: that's only a pump for injecting oil into the muffler of a 2-stoke hobby engine. Won't work so well without a heat source. ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu mailto:psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:10:21 -0700, Jeremy Booth jboo...@gmail.com wrote: Honestly, smoke balls in an apparatus for precise ignition might work rather well... Anything which generates heat/flame that might be burning on the ground is heavily frowned upon. -- keith.pack...@intel.com pgpUc9SdfdZMk.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators...
True but if we could figure out how to do it without heat/flame a reasonable amount of smoke at the landing site sure would make finding the landing site quick. Not that its an issue. Sent remotley -Original Message- From: Keith Packard kei...@keithp.com Sender: psas-avionics-boun...@lists.psas.pdx.edu Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 14:37:41 To: Jeremy Boothjboo...@gmail.com; David Maddend...@mersenne.com Cc: psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu Subject: Re: [psas-avionics] Smoke generators... ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics ___ psas-avionics mailing list psas-avionics@lists.psas.pdx.edu http://lists.psas.pdx.edu/mailman/listinfo/psas-avionics
