Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Gotcha.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Reeves 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 9:13 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  You might not have anything in the signal chain on your end, but whoever 
recorded said track must have had something in their signal chain and printed 
it in the track.

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Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Kevin Reeves]

You might not have anything in the signal chain on your end, but whoever 
recorded said track must have had something in their signal chain and printed 
it in the track.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro 
Tools Accessibility" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

There is absolutely nothing in the signal chain. I looked about 20 times, 
literally! No inserts on the track, no sends, and it's outputting straight to 
the audio interface, not to a bus, or another track, or anything of sort.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chi Kim 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  Chris,

  Your friend must have something in the signal chain.
  I just generated a sine wave with 0.5 amplitude on Audacity and exported to a 
wave file.
  I imported into Pro Tools, and it correctly reads -6db.
  I imported the same file to Reaper, and it also reads -6db.
  I imported to Logic, and it reads -6db.
  Audacity, Pro Tools, Logic, Reaper all read exactly at -6db.
  If your curious why -6db, the math is 20*log10(0.5). It's approximately 
-6.02...
  There should be no difference between different DAWs as far as peak meter 
goes.

  Chi


  On 7/27/2017 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
most responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, 
who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm 
seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. LOL! 
This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, leave 
not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. He 
gets this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which 
included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the long 
run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper right 
now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set 
where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
-1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust 
me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds 
terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the 
strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
originally, back into Reaper.

I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to hold 
the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value anyway.

Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around negative 
12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a compressor, or 
other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in the mix.

This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, 
for that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain 
loss. - Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.

So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em 
play the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! 
that the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would automatically 
without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened at all. Oh, we 
could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It sounded 
disgusting! But, the watcher 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[TheOreoMonster]

Then those track meter readings are pre fader.  

> On Jul 27, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Actually, the level is staying the same on the audio track regardless if I 
> move the volume fader up or down. Now obviously, the meter changes 
> accordingly on my master fader, but not on the actual audio track itself when 
> playing it back.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>  
> http://www.gshministry.org 
> (980) 500-9575
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: TheOreoMonster 
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring
>> 
>> Track fader brings down the volume of the track yes but this is post 
>> processing. So for example if you use the track fader to bring down the 
>> volume of a loud file, and take a post fader meter reading it may reflect 
>> that the level has been lowered. However if you take a pre fader reading you 
>> will see that the track is still at the previously loud volume. This means 
>> that the file  will hit any processing put o that track hot and will 
>> probably have to compensate by turning down the input/output gain in all the 
>> plug ins placed on that track. If you use Trin/Item Volume/Region Gain to 
>> bring the level down to a reasonable place first it will hit the plug ins at 
>> a reasonable level and you probably won’t end up having to play with the 
>> plug ins input and output gains as much.
>> 
>> And as it relates to your current Delia If one DAW is taking its readings 
>> pre fader and the other is taking it post fader and you used the tracks 
>> fader to bring the volume down then that could explain the vast  differences 
>> you are experiencing. 
>>> On Jul 27, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, I'm then confused what the point is of the track fader?
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>>>  
>>> http://www.gshministry.org 
>>> (980) 500-9575
 - Original Message - 
 From: TheOreoMonster 
 To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
 Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring
 
 The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken 
 from? Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro 
 tools, Item volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the 
 level of the audio file it self not the track fader. 
> On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> > wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so 
> we can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting 
> me the most responses.
>  
> Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
> frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, 
> in fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, 
> told me, who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. 
> that's not what I'm seeking here. I really want some true and frank 
> answers here.
>  
> Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of 
> mine start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the 
> friend I said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally 
> different. LOL! This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!
>  
> Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.
>  
> One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal 
> gain staging.
>  
> What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
> hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, 
> leave not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master 
> fader. He gets this concept entirely.
>  
> What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
> stems.
>  
> First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
> familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems 
> which included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.
>  
> Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.
>  
> In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
> vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in 
> the long run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Actually, the level is staying the same on the audio track regardless if I move 
the volume fader up or down. Now obviously, the meter changes accordingly on my 
master fader, but not on the actual audio track itself when playing it back.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: TheOreoMonster 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:31 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  Track fader brings down the volume of the track yes but this is post 
processing. So for example if you use the track fader to bring down the volume 
of a loud file, and take a post fader meter reading it may reflect that the 
level has been lowered. However if you take a pre fader reading you will see 
that the track is still at the previously loud volume. This means that the file 
 will hit any processing put o that track hot and will probably have to 
compensate by turning down the input/output gain in all the plug ins placed on 
that track. If you use Trin/Item Volume/Region Gain to bring the level down to 
a reasonable place first it will hit the plug ins at a reasonable level and you 
probably won’t end up having to play with the plug ins input and output gains 
as much.


  And as it relates to your current Delia If one DAW is taking its readings pre 
fader and the other is taking it post fader and you used the tracks fader to 
bring the volume down then that could explain the vast  differences you are 
experiencing. 
On Jul 27, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


So, I'm then confused what the point is of the track fader?
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: TheOreoMonster
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken 
from? Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro 
tools, Item volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level 
of the audio file it self not the track fader. 

On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess 
so we can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me 
the most responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, 
who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm 
seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of 
mine start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the 
friend I said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally 
different. LOL! This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal 
gain staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW 
too hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, 
leave not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. 
He gets this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which 
included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains 
his vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the 
long run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper 
right now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set 
where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking 
at -1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And 
trust me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds 
terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the 
strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Chi Kim]

Chris,

Your friend must have something in the signal chain.
I just generated a sine wave with 0.5 amplitude on Audacity and exported to a 
wave file.
I imported into Pro Tools, and it correctly reads -6db.
I imported the same file to Reaper, and it also reads -6db.
I imported to Logic, and it reads -6db.
Audacity, Pro Tools, Logic, Reaper all read exactly at -6db.
If your curious why -6db, the math is 20*log10(0.5). It's approximately -6.02...
There should be no difference between different DAWs as far as peak meter goes.

Chi

On 7/27/2017 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we can 
approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the most 
responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite frankly, 
I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in fact, some 
of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, who cares, 
just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm seeking 
here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. LOL! 
This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too hot, 
you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, leave not 
enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. He gets 
this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most familiar 
with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which included 
his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the long 
run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper right 
now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output volume 
fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set where 
the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at -1DB. 
So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust me. I 
can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds terrible. How 
to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the strange thing 
that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
originally, back into Reaper.

I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to hold 
the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value anyway.

Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around negative 
12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a compressor, or 
other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in the mix.

This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, for 
that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain loss. - 
Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.

So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em play 
the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! that 
the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would automatically 
without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened at all. Oh, we 
could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It sounded 
disgusting! But, the watcher yielded nothing!

Finally, In Reaper, I told him, Ronald, try something for me. I told him with 
the watcher set, hit W to go to the beginning of the song. Note that his vocal 
track only contained 1 item. We then hit space bar to play. As soon as his 
vocal started, I let it run for about 20 seconds, then, without pausing, I had 
him hit Alt+F9 to query the peek meter on first track. Note that actually, the 
vocal was the second track in the project, and his karaoke music was the first, 
but he was focused on the second reaper track as being selected with his arrow 
keys up and down. I had him try 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[TheOreoMonster]

Sends generally wouldn’t affect a tracks meter reading. As its sending a 
duplicate copy of the audio off to a completely different track so to speak. 
You would have to check the meter on the send itself to see how loud that send 
is. Effects on the track however could affect the meter reading . 
> On Jul 27, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Also, I believe the track would have been post fader, but there were no sends 
> on it.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>  
> http://www.gshministry.org 
> (980) 500-9575
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: TheOreoMonster 
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring
>> 
>> The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken from? 
>> Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro tools, 
>> Item volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level of 
>> the audio file it self not the track fader. 
>>> On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
>>> can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
>>> most responses.
>>>  
>>> Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
>>> frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
>>> fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told 
>>> me, who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not 
>>> what I'm seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.
>>>  
>>> Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
>>> start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend 
>>> I said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. 
>>> LOL! This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!
>>>  
>>> Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.
>>>  
>>> One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
>>> staging.
>>>  
>>> What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
>>> hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, 
>>> leave not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master 
>>> fader. He gets this concept entirely.
>>>  
>>> What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
>>> stems.
>>>  
>>> First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
>>> familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems 
>>> which included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.
>>>  
>>> Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.
>>>  
>>> In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
>>> vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the 
>>> long run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing 
>>> Reaper right now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!
>>>  
>>> In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
>>> volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools 
>>> set where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.
>>>  
>>> On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
>>> -1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And 
>>> trust me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it 
>>> sounds terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but 
>>> here is the strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!
>>>  
>>> I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
>>> originally, back into Reaper.
>>>  
>>> I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
>>> CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second 
>>> track to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set 
>>> it to hold the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio 
>>> button value anyway.
>>>  
>>> Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
>>> thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around 
>>> negative 12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a 
>>> compressor, or other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up 
>>> in the mix.
>>>  
>>> This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, 
>>> for that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain 
>>> loss. - Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.
>>>  
>>> So, 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[TheOreoMonster]

Track fader brings down the volume of the track yes but this is post 
processing. So for example if you use the track fader to bring down the volume 
of a loud file, and take a post fader meter reading it may reflect that the 
level has been lowered. However if you take a pre fader reading you will see 
that the track is still at the previously loud volume. This means that the file 
 will hit any processing put o that track hot and will probably have to 
compensate by turning down the input/output gain in all the plug ins placed on 
that track. If you use Trin/Item Volume/Region Gain to bring the level down to 
a reasonable place first it will hit the plug ins at a reasonable level and you 
probably won’t end up having to play with the plug ins input and output gains 
as much.

And as it relates to your current Delia If one DAW is taking its readings pre 
fader and the other is taking it post fader and you used the tracks fader to 
bring the volume down then that could explain the vast  differences you are 
experiencing. 
> On Jul 27, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> So, I'm then confused what the point is of the track fader?
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>  
> http://www.gshministry.org 
> (980) 500-9575
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: TheOreoMonster 
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring
>> 
>> The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken from? 
>> Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro tools, 
>> Item volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level of 
>> the audio file it self not the track fader. 
>>> On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
>>> can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
>>> most responses.
>>>  
>>> Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
>>> frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
>>> fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told 
>>> me, who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not 
>>> what I'm seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.
>>>  
>>> Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
>>> start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend 
>>> I said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. 
>>> LOL! This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!
>>>  
>>> Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.
>>>  
>>> One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
>>> staging.
>>>  
>>> What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
>>> hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, 
>>> leave not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master 
>>> fader. He gets this concept entirely.
>>>  
>>> What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
>>> stems.
>>>  
>>> First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
>>> familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems 
>>> which included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.
>>>  
>>> Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.
>>>  
>>> In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
>>> vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the 
>>> long run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing 
>>> Reaper right now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!
>>>  
>>> In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
>>> volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools 
>>> set where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.
>>>  
>>> On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
>>> -1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And 
>>> trust me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it 
>>> sounds terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but 
>>> here is the strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!
>>>  
>>> I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
>>> originally, back into Reaper.
>>>  
>>> I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
>>> CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second 
>>> track to follow current. We checked both boxes to 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Also, I believe the track would have been post fader, but there were no sends 
on it.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: TheOreoMonster 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken from? 
Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro tools, Item 
volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level of the audio 
file it self not the track fader. 

On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
most responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, 
who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm 
seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. LOL! 
This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, leave 
not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. He 
gets this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which 
included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the long 
run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper right 
now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set 
where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
-1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust 
me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds 
terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the 
strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
originally, back into Reaper.

I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to hold 
the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value anyway.

Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around negative 
12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a compressor, or 
other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in the mix.

This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, 
for that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain 
loss. - Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.

So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em 
play the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! 
that the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would automatically 
without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened at all. Oh, we 
could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It sounded 
disgusting! But, the watcher yielded nothing!

Finally, In Reaper, I told him, Ronald, try something for me. I told him 
with the watcher set, hit W to go to the beginning of the song. Note that his 
vocal track only contained 1 item. We then hit space bar to play. As soon as 
his vocal started, I let it run for about 20 seconds, then, without pausing, I 
had him hit Alt+F9 to query the peek meter on 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

So, I'm then confused what the point is of the track fader?
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: TheOreoMonster 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Asking once again about Meterring


  The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken from? 
Pre fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro tools, Item 
volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level of the audio 
file it self not the track fader. 

On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
most responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, 
who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm 
seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. LOL! 
This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, leave 
not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. He 
gets this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the 
stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most 
familiar with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which 
included his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the long 
run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper right 
now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output 
volume fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set 
where the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
-1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust 
me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds 
terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the 
strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
originally, back into Reaper.

I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to hold 
the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value anyway.

Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around negative 
12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a compressor, or 
other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in the mix.

This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, 
for that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain 
loss. - Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.

So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em 
play the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! 
that the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would automatically 
without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened at all. Oh, we 
could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It sounded 
disgusting! But, the watcher yielded nothing!

Finally, In Reaper, I told him, Ronald, try something for me. I told him 
with the watcher set, hit W to go to the beginning of the song. Note that his 
vocal track only contained 1 item. We then hit space bar to play. As soon as 
his vocal started, I let it run for about 20 seconds, then, without pausing, I 
had him hit Alt+F9 to query the peek meter on first track. Note that 

Re: Asking once again about Meterring

[TheOreoMonster]

The first question I’d ask is where are the meter reading being taken from? Pre 
fader, post fader etc.  Also you will  want to use Trim in  Pro tools, Item 
volume in reaper, and region gain in logic to bring down the level of the audio 
file it self not the track fader. 
> On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we 
> can approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the 
> most responses.
>  
> Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite 
> frankly, I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in 
> fact, some of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, 
> who cares, just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what 
> I'm seeking here. I really want some true and frank answers here.
>  
> Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
> start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
> said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. 
> LOL! This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!
>  
> Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.
>  
> One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
> staging.
>  
> What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too 
> hot, you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, 
> leave not enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master 
> fader. He gets this concept entirely.
>  
> What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the stems.
>  
> First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most familiar 
> with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which included 
> his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.
>  
> Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.
>  
> In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
> vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the 
> long run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper 
> right now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!
>  
> In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output volume 
> fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set where 
> the peek meters hold infinent until reset.
>  
> On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at 
> -1DB. So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust 
> me. I can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds 
> terrible. How to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the 
> strange thing that I just! can't! fathom!
>  
> I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
> originally, back into Reaper.
>  
> I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
> CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
> to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to 
> hold the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value 
> anyway.
>  
> Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
> thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around 
> negative 12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a 
> compressor, or other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in 
> the mix.
>  
> This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, for 
> that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain loss. 
> - Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.
>  
> So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em play 
> the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! 
> that the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would 
> automatically without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened 
> at all. Oh, we could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It 
> sounded disgusting! But, the watcher yielded nothing!
>  
> Finally, In Reaper, I told him, Ronald, try something for me. I told him with 
> the watcher set, hit W to go to the beginning of the song. Note that his 
> vocal track only contained 1 item. We then hit space bar to play. As soon as 
> his vocal started, I let it run for about 20 seconds, then, without pausing, 
> I had him hit Alt+F9 to query the peek meter on first track. Note that 
> actually, the vocal was the second track in the project, and his karaoke 
> music was the first, but he was focused on the second reaper track as being 
> selected with his arrow keys up and down. I had him try alt+F10 as well for 
> the second track 

Asking once again about Meterring

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Sorry for the crosspost, but I'm wanting to also put this on PTAccess so we can 
approach this from both DAW angles, and to help leverage getting me the most 
responses.

Guys, I asked this question on list about 2 or 3 months ago, and quite frankly, 
I never ever got a very direct answer. Everyone who did answer, in fact, some 
of which you'd never imagine saying this on the RWP list, told me, who cares, 
just use your ears, and let them be your guide. that's not what I'm seeking 
here. I really want some true and frank answers here.

Here's the situation. I am trying to help an incredibly dear friend of mine 
start up learning audio production, and by the way, no, it's not the friend I 
said who cannot do audio worth a damn. This is someone totally different. LOL! 
This guy actually is very very very open to suggestions!

Anyway, he hasn't done anything at all when it comes to pro grade audio.

One of the things that we now are working on is microphone lead vocal gain 
staging.

What I'm trying to get him to see is that if you record into your DAW too hot, 
you'll start clipping, and even if you don't! clip the  vocal track, leave not 
enough headroom, and in the long run, you'll clip your master fader. He gets 
this concept entirely.

What we did is, he sent me a recording he did in Reaper. He sent me the stems.

First, I loaded it up actually in ProTools as it's the DAW I'm most familiar 
with. But, the point is, he sent me the unprocessed raw stems which included 
his vocal that he initially recorded in Reaper.

Here's where things went absolutely awri kurfunkity wacko jacko.

In ProTools, I interacted with the track channel strip that contains his 
vocals. Note that right now, I don't have Flowtools installed. Yes, in the long 
run, this message is ProTools related even though I'm discussing Reaper right 
now. Please please I beg you, stick with me on this!

In this track strip, I navigated one VO+right arrow passed the output volume 
fader for that track, and landed on the peek meter. I have ProTools set where 
the peek meters hold infinent until reset.

On the loudest peek of his vocal, ProTools indicates that he's peeking at -1DB. 
So, he's really really really hot! Really no headroom at all. And trust me. I 
can hear it too! It sounds God aweful! Even he! agrees it sounds terrible. How 
to fix this is another issue in and of itself, but here is the strange thing 
that I just! can't! fathom!

I imported these exact same stem wav files that were created in Reaper, 
originally, back into Reaper.

I then had him, using Osara, go into the peek meter watcher settings with 
CTRL+Shift+W. Essentially, we set both combo boxes for first and second track 
to follow current. We checked both boxes to watch the tracks. I set it to hold 
the meter until reset, which I think was the default radio button value anyway.

Finally, when level reaches, I had him set this to minus 12. My reason of 
thinking was, if he can come into the DAW from his interface at around negative 
12DB, that gives plenty of headroom, and we then could use a compressor, or 
other means later in the mixing phase to get that vocal up in the mix.

This is how I was tought to do it with ProTools, or really with any DAW, for 
that mind. Record in low, then later adjust and compensate for the gain loss. - 
Don't try starting out by going in at a really hot level.

So, anyway, I then after setting up the meter watcher in Reaper had 'em play 
the recording. Because in ProTools, he was peeking at -1DB, I was hoping! that 
the peek watcher in Reaper would pick up on this, and would automatically 
without him doing anything let him know. Well, nothing happened at all. Oh, we 
could hear the clipping all right! Oh baby could we ever! It sounded 
disgusting! But, the watcher yielded nothing!

Finally, In Reaper, I told him, Ronald, try something for me. I told him with 
the watcher set, hit W to go to the beginning of the song. Note that his vocal 
track only contained 1 item. We then hit space bar to play. As soon as his 
vocal started, I let it run for about 20 seconds, then, without pausing, I had 
him hit Alt+F9 to query the peek meter on first track. Note that actually, the 
vocal was the second track in the project, and his karaoke music was the first, 
but he was focused on the second reaper track as being selected with his arrow 
keys up and down. I had him try alt+F10 as well for the second track though, 
and got the same results, so I don't know that's entirely our issue. Anyway, 
both are showeing around -21.9DB for the peek. Obviously, I then had him hit 
Alt+F8 to reset the watch meters.

I don't get it though! Hitting J and K are telling us he's around -21DB as 
well. When I had him lower the level in the watcher settings, I told him when 
level reaches, instead of putting -12, try some really overexagerated thing 
like -30. He did this, created a new track, armed it, started talking in the 
mike, and boom! it worked beautifully! It told 

Re: A quick question about air gigs job search

[Kevin Reeves]

I am an active air gigs user, and I just uploaded a standard pic of me, nothing 
fancy. I don’t think it even shows gear.

Kevin


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