Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/03/2015 04:22 PM, Brian Kardell wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi mailto:o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/02/2015 09:22 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Brian recently posted what

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Domenic Denicola d...@domenic.me wrote: In IRC Anne and I were briefly discussing how type= is the is= of Web Applications 1.0. That is, input type=date is similar to img is=x-gif or similar---it has a reasonable fallback behavior, but in reality it is a

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Chris Bateman
Yeah, I had noted in that post that wrapping a native element with a custom element was an option - only drawback is that the markup isn't as terse (which is generally advertised as one of the selling points of Custom Elements). But that doesn't seem like a deal breaker to me, if subclassing

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Steve Faulkner
On 4 February 2015 at 16:51, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: my-custom-formatterinput/my-custom-formatter I think if this worked. i.e. hid the styling and allowed styling over top, while allowing access to the input functionality would be a good solution for the many many instances of

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2015JanMar/0435.html https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2015JanMar/0435.html first. On Feb 4, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Chris Bateman chrisb...@gmail.com wrote: Assuming a situation where a native element – with custom

Ted Dinklocker Introduction

2015-02-04 Thread Ted Dinklocker
I just joined the group today, so thought I should introduce myself. My name is Ted Dinklocker and I work at Microsoft on the Internet Explorer Platform team. I am excited to work with all of you to help drive web interoperability and capability! A short bio: I have worked in technology and

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Brian Kardell
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:12 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Chris Bateman chrisb...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Alice Boxhall
So a web page author would write x-slider min=-100 ... etc. and then the custom element would sprout an input type=range ...etc with the attribute values copied across? Then the web page author knows nothing about the input element, so if they want to programmatically the value of the custom

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: So a web page author would write x-slider min=-100 ... etc. and then the custom element would sprout an input type=range ...etc with the attribute values copied across? No. The page author would write x-sliderinput

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com mailto:rn...@apple.com wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:12 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com mailto:bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Chris Bateman chrisb...@gmail.com wrote: Ugh, I forgot about that. Without subclassing - terseness is a very minor drawback, but remapping the interface is a big pain. Could you give us a concrete use case in which remapping the interface is necessary or

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Brian Kardell
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Chris Bateman chrisb...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I had noted in that post that wrapping a native element with a custom element was an option - only drawback is that the markup isn't as terse (which is generally advertised as one of the selling points of Custom

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 February 2015 at 16:51, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com mailto:rn...@apple.com wrote: my-custom-formatterinput/my-custom-formatter I think if this worked. i.e. hid the styling and allowed styling over top,

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Alice Boxhall
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:12 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Steve Faulkner
On 4 February 2015 at 19:05, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: So then how do we treat it as fallback content i.e. un-rendered, while allowing it to be accessible to to the AT layer? I suggest as in the working canvas example i provided, it not only be exposed AT but also to keyboard

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com mailto:bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com mailto:aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4,

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Chris Bateman
Ugh, I forgot about that. Without subclassing -  terseness is a very minor drawback, but remapping the interface is a big pain. On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015

Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Glen
I know I'm rather late to the party, but I've been doing a lot of reading lately about web components and related technologies, and the one thing that confounds me is the fact that web components appear not to have any real namespacing. Can someone explain why this is so, and what the

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Glenn Adams
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Glen glen...@gmail.com wrote: I know I'm rather late to the party, but I've been doing a lot of reading lately about web components and related technologies, and the one thing that confounds me is the fact that web components appear not to have any real

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Glen
It doesn't really matter whether or not it's based on (or at least resembles) XML, as long as there is some way to specify (and redefine) the prefix of custom elements. G. On 2015/02/04 23:39, Glenn Adams wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Glen glen...@gmail.com

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Chris Bateman
Assuming a situation where a native element – with custom functionality – is dynamically injected into the page, the basic options I can think of are: - input is=my-custom-formatter - input class=my-custom-formatter and a page-level listener - input class=my-custom-formatter and call a

Re: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Chris Bateman chrisb...@gmail.com wrote: An better example of both A and B (than my previous hypothetical) might be GitHub's time is=relative-time extension: https://github.com/github/time-elements/. FWIW, I do want subclassing of builtins to work. Maybe not

RE: Minimum viable custom elements

2015-02-04 Thread Domenic Denicola
I hope others can address the question of why custom element callbacks are useful, and meet the bar of being a feature we should add to the web platform (with all the UA-coordination that requires). I just wanted to interject into this input discussion. In IRC Anne and I were briefly

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: Why do we need shadow DOM (or something similar) at all if we expose it easily to the outside world. One could even now just require that elements in components in a web page have class=component, and then .component could be

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Feb 4, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: Why do we need shadow DOM (or something similar) at all if we expose it easily to the outside world. One could even now just require that elements in

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: Why do we need shadow DOM (or something similar) at all if we expose it easily to the

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/05/2015 01:20 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: You don't need strong isolation primitives to do a lot of good. Simple composition helpers lift an *enormous* weight off the shoulders of web devs, and make whole classes of bugs

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Olli Pettay
On 02/05/2015 01:20 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: You don't need strong isolation primitives to do a lot of good. Simple composition helpers lift an *enormous* weight off the shoulders of web devs, and make whole classes of bugs obsolete. Shadow DOM is precisely that composition helper right now.

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Dimitri Glazkov
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: Why do we need shadow DOM (or something similar) at all if we expose it easily

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread William Edney
Glen - Glenn has the answer. So we're going to come up with yet-another-registry rather than use one that already exists and guarantees (at least as far can be guaranteed) uniqueness: DNS. The ramifications of not making HTML5 be XHTML5 will be with us for a very long time indeed. Cheers, -

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Glen
Can either of you provide an example in layman's terms? I don't quite understand what this will look like. G. On 2015/02/05 00:29, William Edney wrote: Glen - Glenn has the answer. So we're going to come up with yet-another-registry rather than use one that already exists and guarantees

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Glen glen...@gmail.com wrote: I know I'm rather late to the party, but I've been doing a lot of reading lately about web components and related technologies, and the one thing that confounds me is the fact that web components appear not to have any real

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Kurt Cagle kurt.ca...@gmail.com wrote: I predict that sometime around 2025, we will end up redefining namespaces because the number of jQuery-like components have ballooned into the millions, the web has descended once again into a sea of interoperability, and

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Kurt Cagle
I predict that sometime around 2025, we will end up redefining namespaces because the number of jQuery-like components have ballooned into the millions, the web has descended once again into a sea of interoperability, and registries will, once again, have proven to be a bottleneck, as they have

[Bug 27965] New: [Shadow]: Shadow host with tabindex=-1, all descendent tree should be ignored for tab navigation

2015-02-04 Thread bugzilla
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27965 Bug ID: 27965 Summary: [Shadow]: Shadow host with tabindex=-1, all descendent tree should be ignored for tab navigation Product: WebAppsWG Version: unspecified Hardware:

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Olli Pettay
On 02/03/2015 07:24 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Not trying to barge in, just sprinkling data... On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:22 AM, Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com mailto:bkard...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi mailto:o...@pettay.fi wrote:

Re: [IndexedDB] link to Editor's draft is a 404

2015-02-04 Thread Tobie Langel
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Tobie Langel tobie.lan...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Michael[tm] Smith m...@w3.org wrote: Arthur Barstow art.bars...@gmail.com, 2015-02-02 08:47 -0500: Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/54cf7fe0.6090...@gmail.com On 2/2/15 7:14 AM,

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Olli Pettay
On 02/03/2015 04:22 PM, Brian Kardell wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi mailto:o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/02/2015 09:22 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Brian recently posted what looks like an excellent framing of the composition problem:

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Brian Kardell
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/03/2015 04:22 PM, Brian Kardell wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi mailto: o...@pettay.fi wrote: On 02/02/2015 09:22 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Brian recently posted what

Re: Shadow tree style isolation primitive

2015-02-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Olli Pettay o...@pettay.fi wrote: Why should even !important work if the component wants to use its own colors? Because that's how !important usually works. If the author has progressed to the point of doing !important, we should assume that they know what

Re: Are web components *seriously* not namespaced?

2015-02-04 Thread Benjamin Goering
Glad to see this. I was 'checking in' on the professional practicalities of custom elements earlier this week, and was pretty bummed when I couldn't use XHTML5 namespaces for my employer's organization. I build widgets all day. They run in inhospitable that websites I'm not in control of. They