Re: Installing web apps

2012-02-09 Thread Robin Berjon
Hi Dimitri, On Feb 7, 2012, at 18:26 , Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Robin, this is a pretty interesting and thoughtful treatise and while I am still digesting parts of it, I can't help but think that the key in identifying precise boundaries and relative position of these two universes is defining

CfC: publish WD of Clipboard API and events; deadline February 16

2012-02-09 Thread Arthur Barstow
This is a Call for Consensus to publish a new WD of the Clipboard API and events spec using the latest ED as the basis (Hallvord has not yet prepared it for publication in /TR/): http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/clipops/clipops.html Agreement to this proposal: a) indicates support for

Re: Installing web apps

2012-02-09 Thread Marcos Caceres
On Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Adrienne Porter Felt wrote: I agree that the current UI is not great. However, I disagree about everyone clicking through permission grants. I've done two user studies and found that about ~18% of people look at permissions for a given

[clipboard] Event definition

2012-02-09 Thread Ms2ger
Hi Hallvord, At http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/clipops/clipops.html#clipboard-event-interface, a reference to DOM *2* Events is made; it should be updated. Also, the initClipboardEvent method should be removed in favour of a constructor, as described at

Re: [Clipboard] Processing model feedback (and other)

2012-02-09 Thread Hallvord R. M. Steen
Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com skreiv Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:48:36 +0200 As a high-level comment it seems to me the organization of the specification needs some changing. The processing model is about how to deal with a copy/paste/cut operation it is not about firing an event (that is

Re: [clipboard] Event definition

2012-02-09 Thread Hallvord R. M. Steen
Ms2ger ms2...@gmail.com skreiv Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:26:39 +0100 http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/clipops/clipops.html#clipboard-event-interface, a reference to DOM *2* Events is made; it should be updated. Well, I guess it should. On the other hand..what should it be updated to? AFAIK DOM3

Re: [clipboard] Event definition

2012-02-09 Thread Paul Libbrecht
Ms2ger, the same old issue with referencing a released spec or not... that was heavily discussed! Or am I wrong? Is there any reason that makes that sentence obsolete in DOM 2? I would have no issue that the clipboard document references both but it would become unreleasable if it had to rely

Re: CfC by 02-14: Add IME API to the charter

2012-02-09 Thread Charles McCathieNevile
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:38:51 +0100, Robin Berjon ro...@berjon.com wrote: On Feb 8, 2012, at 13:29 , Charles McCathieNevile wrote: thanks to Mike and the Google guys, we have http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/use-cases/Overview.html which explains what an IME API would do and

Re: April face-to-face meetings for HTML and WebApps

2012-02-09 Thread Marcos Caceres
On Thursday, February 9, 2012 at 4:18 AM, Andres Riofrio wrote: Regarding the checklist: perhaps these things are only relevant if there are Christian/Jewish/Muslim people in the group. And if there are people that prefer not to meet on Saturday. It seems to me more reasonable to expect

Templates 2: The Real World

2012-02-09 Thread Rick Waldron
Hey everyone, I've been following the HTML Parsing and the template element thread/conversation since it began yesterday and it's very interesting, but one thing keeps coming to mind - has anyone working on template spent any significant time using the existing web template systems and practices?

Re: Installing web apps

2012-02-09 Thread Tobie Langel
On 2/9/12 1:21 PM, Marcos Caceres w...@marcosc.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Adrienne Porter Felt wrote: I agree that the current UI is not great. However, I disagree about everyone clicking through permission grants. I've done two user studies and found that about

Re: Installing web apps

2012-02-09 Thread Marcos Caceres
On Thursday, February 9, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Tobie Langel wrote: The correlation between the number of permissions requested by the app and the percentage of users which will avoid using the app altogether is strong, so much so that we're warning devs against asking for too many permissions

xframe or iframe type='cross-domain'

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
I've been working with cross-domain iframes. This technology has a lot of potential, but the current API is very difficult to use. Just search the web for cross-domain iframe info and you can read how many developers are confused. I believe a simple change could make a huge difference. My

Re: xframe or iframe type='cross-domain'

2012-02-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/9/12 12:04 PM, John J Barton wrote: As far as I can tell, a cross-domain iframe contentWindow has only one valid property, postMessage(). By no stretch of anyone's imagination is the object a window. Calling this thing we get a contentWindow is a mean lie to developers; it forces us into

Re: xframe or iframe type='cross-domain'

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 2/9/12 12:04 PM, John J Barton wrote: As far as I can tell, a cross-domain iframe contentWindow has only one valid property, postMessage(). By no stretch of anyone's imagination is the object a window. Calling this thing

Re: xframe or iframe type='cross-domain'

2012-02-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/9/12 12:43 PM, John J Barton wrote: The drawback is that your fallback behavior in UAs without support for the new feature is quite different. Is that a problem? Developer feedback definitely needed there. Extending the API on iframe would make fallback easy even though it lacks

Re: xframe or iframe type='cross-domain'

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 2/9/12 12:43 PM, John J Barton wrote: The drawback is that your fallback behavior in UAs without support for the new feature is quite different.  Is that a problem?  Developer feedback definitely needed there.

connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
Recently I've been working with iframe messaging. The postMessage solution has a lot of advantages and good traction across iframes, WebWorkers, and browser extensions, with lots of overlap with Web Sockets. However the technology has two significant problems. First is the contentWindow that is

Re: [webcomponents] HTML Parsing and the template element

2012-02-09 Thread Dimitri Glazkov
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Henri Sivonen hsivo...@iki.fi wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Dimitri Glazkov dglaz...@chromium.org wrote: == IDEA 1: Keep template contents parsing in the tokenizer == Not this! Here's why: Making something look like markup but then not tokenizing

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/9/12 1:15 PM, John J Barton wrote: This leads developers to look for events that will tell them about 'load' on iframes, and that leads them to try iframe.contentWindow.addEventListener(). It works fine for same-domain iframes, but fails for cross-domain. Adding a load listener to the

Re: Installing web apps

2012-02-09 Thread Jean-Claude Dufourd
As you are saying, we seem to be talking of different things, even if I have a problem seeing how different. You make a difference between apps using web technologies accessed by HTTP or not, which I thought close to installed or not. You postulate the absence of a safe and usable way of

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 2/9/12 1:15 PM, John J Barton wrote: This leads developers to look for events that will tell them about 'load' on iframes, and that leads them to try iframe.contentWindow.addEventListener(). It works fine for

Re: Templates 2: The Real World

2012-02-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Rick Waldron waldron.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hey everyone, I've been following the HTML Parsing and the template element thread/conversation since it began yesterday and it's very interesting, but one thing keeps coming to mind - has anyone working on template

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: That doesn't help with the second problem, of course Ok here are some ideas, riffing off the web messaging doc 1 To iframe element add: readonly attribute MessagePort port; 'message' events from the iframe to the

Re: safeguarding a live getData() against looping scripts? (was: Re: clipboard events)

2012-02-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Wed, 18 May 2011, Daniel Cheng wrote: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 16:54, Hallvord R. M. Steen hallv...@opera.comwrote: Not 100% sure what you mean by concerns - do you mean for example if I drag a selection that embeds local images from my local word processing application to an online

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 9 Feb 2012, John J Barton wrote: However the solution has two significant problems: 1. There is no way to know if portToOtherWindow is connected before you issue postMessage() Just have the target message you when it's ready. 2. All iframes send messages to the same handler.

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread John J Barton
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Thu, 9 Feb 2012, John J Barton wrote: However the solution has two significant problems:   1. There is no way to know if portToOtherWindow is connected before you issue postMessage() Just have the target message you when

Re: connection ceremony for iframe postMessage communications

2012-02-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 9 Feb 2012, John J Barton wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Thu, 9 Feb 2012, John J Barton wrote: However the solution has two significant problems:   1. There is no way to know if portToOtherWindow is connected before you issue