RE: Constrained specification of Icon element
Excellent! I'm happy with this. cheers /o Hi Ola, Apologies for the delay in replying. I, and others, agree with your presented use cases and have changed the spec to match. Please see comments below. Can you please get back to us ASAP confirming that you agree with the changes. We intend to republish this specification next week, but we must have confirmation from you that you are satisfied with the changes. 2009/11/10 Ola Andersson ola.anders...@ericsson.com: Hi, I understand it might be too late to modify the spec now but I still think the spec isn't clear with regards to icon size and should be clarified, maybe in some future version at least. I'm also not fully convinced your description (bottom of this mail) about clipping an SVG icon is correct. This is because the Widget PC spec states for the icon width/height attributes: The width is only applicable to graphic formats that have no intrinsic width or height (e.g., SVG). However, SVG do have intrinsic size when SVG width/height are specified [1] (except in the case when widht/height are %-values) so the widget spec might want to clarify this and your example below should, according to the icon definition, ignore the icon width/height and render the icon using the intrinsic 1000x1000px size. To me this behavior is not what you want, rather I propose the following changes to the icon size: 1. For the widget icon element's width and height attributes the spec should state that the width and height attribute values are to be seen as a guide to the UA in order for the widget provider to indicate the preferred size of the icon. The UA is allowed to ignore the width/height in order to change the size of the icon, exampels of when this might occur is if a UA is to display icons from different providers in a single GUI (and thus prefer to display them all at the same size). Or if a UA needs to enlarge icons in a GUI due to accessability requirements (vision impaired users...) Agreed. 2. icon width/height attributes should apply to all graphic formats, not just those without intrinsic size. Having this would make it possible to reuse the same icon resource for multiple resolutions. The following example (almost from the widget spec): Agreed. Removed restriction on usage of the width and height attribute (applies to all graphic formats). Ok, the spec now reads: [ Width/Height A numeric attribute greater than 0 that represents, in CSS pixels [CSS21], the author's preferred width/height for the icon. A user agent may ignore this value when changing the height icon to fit a rendering context or for accessibility reasons. ] icon src=icons/big.png/ icon src=icons/medium.png/ icon src=icons/small.png/ could then be rewritten as: icon src=icons/big.png/ icon src=icons/big.png width=128 height=128/ icon src=icons/big.png width=64 height=64/ Which would save the author the work of creating different pngs, and save bandwith. All UAs have features for raster scaling so no issue with that. I think in the above cases the author would just declare (and the UA would just use the icon in all contexts): icon src=icons/big.png/ A more complicated example would be: icon src=icons/big.png/ icon src=icons/medium.png/ icon src=icons/big.png width=16 height=16 / However, I do not see a need to add such complexity to the spec. In other words, though I have changed the definition of the icon width and height, I am reluctant to change the parsing model to allow the same icon to be declared more than once (as above). Kind regards, Marcos -- Marcos Caceres http://datadriven.com.au
Re: Constrained specification of Icon element
Hi, I understand it might be too late to modify the spec now but I still think the spec isn't clear with regards to icon size and should be clarified, maybe in some future version at least. I'm also not fully convinced your description (bottom of this mail) about clipping an SVG icon is correct. This is because the Widget PC spec states for the icon width/height attributes: The width http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#width0 is only applicable to graphic formats that have no intrinsic width or height (e.g., SVG). However, SVG do have intrinsic size when SVG width/height are specified [1] (except in the case when widht/height are %-values) so the widget spec might want to clarify this and your example below should, according to the icon definition, ignore the icon width/height and render the icon using the intrinsic 1000x1000px size. To me this behavior is not what you want, rather I propose the following changes to the icon size: 1. For the widget icon element's width and height attributes the spec should state that the width and height attribute values are to be seen as a guide to the UA in order for the widget provider to indicate the preferred size of the icon. The UA is allowed to ignore the width/height in order to change the size of the icon, exampels of when this might occur is if a UA is to display icons from different providers in a single GUI (and thus prefer to display them all at the same size). Or if a UA needs to enlarge icons in a GUI due to accessability requirements (vision impaired users...) 2. icon width/height attributes should apply to all graphic formats, not just those without intrinsic size. Having this would make it possible to reuse the same icon resource for multiple resolutions. The following example (almost from the widget spec): icon src=icons/big.png/ icon src=icons/medium.png/ icon src=icons/small.png/ could then be rewritten as: icon src=icons/big.png/ icon src=icons/big.png width=128 height=128/ icon src=icons/big.png width=64 height=64/ Which would save the author the work of creating different pngs, and save bandwith. All UAs have features for raster scaling so no issue with that. Best regards /ola andersson [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/struct.html#SVGElementWidthAttribute 2009/11/2 Magnus Olsson magnus.ols...@ericsson.com mailto:magnus.ols...@ericsson.com?subject=re%3a%20constrained%20specification%20of%20icon%20elementIn-Reply-To=%253Cb21a10670911060819t2ef5d143u54092e173ab1a549%40mail.gmail.com%253EReferences=%253Cb21a10670911060819t2ef5d143u54092e173ab1a549%40mail.gmail.com%253E The icon element (*http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#icon0*http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/ http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#icon0*%3Chttp://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/ ) has width/height properties which only applies to SVG icons. To me the spec isn't fully clear how to use them. Is it ok for a user agent to ignore the width/height of an SVG icon? IMO it should be since it will be hard to do a consistent widget desktop manager with widgets from multiple sources (and therefore possibly with different width/height set) if the widget icons are of different sizes. To me the width/height should just be a guide to the user agent but the user agent should have the choice of scaling to the appropriate size. This is of course also important for widgets intended to run on multiple platforms with different screen sizes. Yes, the user agent can decide how best to treat icons based on the available size. Where the width and height help is to establish the viewport (the window in which the SVG will be rendered). So, if an SVG declares itself to be 1000 by 1000px (svg width=1000 height=1000 ...), but the width and height of the icon both say 100 pixels, then the rendered representation of the SVG will simply get clipped because it won't fit in the 100 by 100 viewport. -- Marcos Caceres http://datadriven.com.au ___ Ola Andersson Senior System Manager Solution Area TV (SATV) BU Multimedia Products (BMUM) Mobile: +46 761 441320 Email: ola.anders...@ericsson.com Ericsson AB Tellusborgsvägen 83-87 SE-126 37, Stockholm, Sweden www.ericsson.com
