Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-30 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On Fri 2015-01-30 01:50:43 -0500, Yan Zhu wrote: Say that resource Y is a javascript file that listens for users typing in password fields and shows them a warning if the password is weak. The user verifies and loads the HTML page that includes Y but an attacker then blocks the request to

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-30 Thread Chris Palmer
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:50 PM, Yan Zhu y...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Say that resource Y is a javascript file that listens for users typing in password fields and shows them a warning if the password is weak. The user verifies and loads the HTML page that includes Y but an attacker then

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Yan Zhu
chris palmer wrote: But other code from the same origin might not be signed, which could break the security assertion of code signing. Maybe the code from the downloaded package has to be run from a local origin like chrome://*.

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Brad Hill
Paging (future Dr.) Deian Stefan to the ER... Any thoughts on using COWL for this kind of thing, with a pinned crypto key as a confinement label to be combined with the regular Origin label? -Brad On Thu Jan 29 2015 at 1:43:05 PM Yan Zhu y...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: chris palmer wrote: But

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Chris Palmer
But other code from the same origin might not be signed, which could break the security assertion of code signing. The unit of signing should be the same as the unit of isolation, i.e. the origin. Or, the origin should be expanded to include a 4th element, the signing key(s). I don't know how to

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Devdatta Akhawe
Maybe the code from the downloaded package has to be run from a local origin like chrome://*. Doesn't the same issue that Chris raised still exist? You need a unit of isolation that says only code signed with this public key runs in this isolation compartment. Chrome extensions have that

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Deian Stefan
Brad Hill hillb...@gmail.com writes: Paging (future Dr.) Deian Stefan to the ER... Any thoughts on using COWL for this kind of thing, with a pinned crypto key as a confinement label to be combined with the regular Origin label? Thanks for paging me! I've thought about something like

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Yan Zhu
devdatta wrote: Maybe the code from the downloaded package has to be run from a local origin like chrome://*. Doesn't the same issue that Chris raised still exist? You need a unit of isolation that says only code signed with this public key runs in this isolation compartment. Chrome

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Ilya Grigorik
Would it be possible to meet the security goals without assuming that the response body is part of the package? See [1] for background on why that's beneficial.. at least for performance side of the story. I'm picturing a package description where each resource has a SRI token, plus a signature to

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On Thu 2015-01-29 20:14:59 -0500, Yan Zhu wrote: A signed manifest-like package description that lists the hash and location of every resource seems fine as long as all the resources are downloaded and verified before running the app. Perhaps this kills some of the performance benefits

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Yan Zhu
packaging and complicated signing is routine for most installable web apps and browser extensions; see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Signing_a_XPI for instance. Developers who build those might actually want the process to be less complicated. Given that the packaging spec lists

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Yan Zhu
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 6:25 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor d...@fifthhorseman.net wrote: On Thu 2015-01-29 20:14:59 -0500, Yan Zhu wrote: A signed manifest-like package description that lists the hash and location of every resource seems fine as long as all the resources are downloaded and

Re: Security use cases for packaging

2015-01-29 Thread Michaela Merz
Pardon my french, but the whole idea is ridiculous. Web development is fluid and flexible. While I most certainly understand the idea and the need for secured loadable code (AFAIK I brought up this issue about 2 months ago), packaging and complicated signing is counter productive. What about