Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-03 Thread Marcos





On June 2, 2014 at 4:52:41 PM, Alex Russell (slightly...@google.com) wrote:
  The Chrome team is excited about this direction and is collaborating  
 on the manifest format in order to help make aspects of this real.  
 In particular we're excited to see a Service Worker entry added  
 to the format in a future version as well as controls for window  
 decorations and exit extents.

This is great to hear. 

I've captured SW integration in the issue tracker [#161], but would like to 
hear more about what you have in mind for window decorations and exit 
extents. If you can give me some pointers to what you mean, I'm happy to go 
and do the research for the use cases, etc.  


[#161] https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/161
-- 
Marcos Caceres



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-02 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?

The webapps platform that we use in FirefoxOS and Firefox Desktop
allows any website to be an app store. I *think*, though I'm not 100%
sure, that this works in Firefox for Android as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by side loaded, but we're definitely
trying to allow normal websites to provide the same experience as the
firefox marketplace. The user doesn't have to turn on any developer
mode or otherwise do anything otherwise special to use such a
marketplace. The user simply needs to browse to the website/webstore
and start using it.

The manifest spec that is being developed in this WG is the first step
towards standardizing the same capability set. It doesn't yet have the
concept of an app store, instead any website can self-host itself as
an app.

It's not clear to me if there's interest from other browser vendors
for allowing websites to act as app stores, for now we're focusing the
standard on simpler use cases.

/ Jonas



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-02 Thread David Rajchenbach-Teller
On 02/06/14 11:06, Jonas Sicking wrote:
 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?
 
 The webapps platform that we use in FirefoxOS and Firefox Desktop
 allows any website to be an app store. I *think*, though I'm not 100%
 sure, that this works in Firefox for Android as well.

I confirm that it works on Android.

Best regards,
 David

-- 
David Rajchenbach-Teller, PhD
 Performance Team, Mozilla



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Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-02 Thread Alex Russell
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:

 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
  any traction among the platform vendors?

 The webapps platform that we use in FirefoxOS and Firefox Desktop
 allows any website to be an app store. I *think*, though I'm not 100%
 sure, that this works in Firefox for Android as well.

 I'm not sure what you mean by side loaded, but we're definitely
 trying to allow normal websites to provide the same experience as the
 firefox marketplace. The user doesn't have to turn on any developer
 mode or otherwise do anything otherwise special to use such a
 marketplace. The user simply needs to browse to the website/webstore
 and start using it.

 The manifest spec that is being developed in this WG is the first step
 towards standardizing the same capability set. It doesn't yet have the
 concept of an app store, instead any website can self-host itself as
 an app.


The Chrome team is excited about this direction and is collaborating on the
manifest format in order to help make aspects of this real. In particular
we're excited to see a Service Worker entry added to the format in a future
version as well as controls for window decorations and exit extents.


 It's not clear to me if there's interest from other browser vendors
 for allowing websites to act as app stores, for now we're focusing the
 standard on simpler use cases.


I can only speak for the Chrome team, but the idea of a page as an
app-store seems less important than the concept of the page *as* an app.


Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-01 Thread Daniel Appelquist

 On 31 May 2014, at 04:03, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.org wrote:

 Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Brendan Eichbren...@mozilla.org  wrote:
 Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?
 Firefox OS wants this.
 Thanks Brendan.

 As a second related question, is an Installable WebApp considered a
 side-loaded app?

 Sicking can answer with more authority, but side-loaded or downloaded, so 
 long as the user installs it, no difference.

 /be


A good example of this on FirefoxOS is the (beta) version of the Financial 
Times WebApp. http://app.ft.com It makes use of the installation API[1] to 
prompt the user to install it if it is not already installed - this is the 
intended user experience, as a contrast to the install our app! interruptive 
experience on other platforms (has been called door slam).  The more webbish 
way is to enable webapps to install themselves on user request - which is what 
I believe we are trying to enable via the manifest file work. Considering 
standardization of the installation API may also be worth while.

Dan
1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Apps/Build/JavaScript_API
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Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-06-01 Thread Paul Theriault

On 31 May 2014, at 5:00 am, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.org wrote:

 Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Brendan Eichbren...@mozilla.org  wrote:
 Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?
 Firefox OS wants this.
 Thanks Brendan.
 
 As a second related question, is an Installable WebApp considered a
 side-loaded app?
 
 Sicking can answer with more authority, but side-loaded or downloaded, so 
 long as the user installs it, no difference.

The only difference is the permissions available to the app.  Some permissions 
require a “privileged app level, and this is only granted to apps installed 
from the Firefox Marketplace, after security review. This difference only 
applies to packaged apps - regular web apps (hosted apps) are treated the same 
no matter where they are installed from.  Note that Firefox OS Apps may control 
which domains may install them by specifying the “installs_allowed_from” 
manifest property. [1]

Developers are also able to side-load apps via the Firefox App Manager, but 
this is done via the Firefox debugger, and separate to web-based installation. 
Side-loading allows developers to grant any permissions to their apps, but as 
stated correctly above, side-loaded apps are not treated any differently once 
installed.

[1] 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Apps/Build/Manifest#installs_allowed_from

Regards,
Paul Theriault

 
 /be
 




Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-31 Thread Mounir Lamouri
On Sat, 31 May 2014, at 10:40, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 I have a question about Use Cases for Installable WebApps located at
 https://w3c-webmob.github.io/installable-webapps/.
 
 Under section Add to Homescreen, the document states:
 
 ... giving developers the choice to tightly integrate their web
 applications into the OS directly from the Web browser is
 still somewhat new...
 
 ... [Installable WebApps] are different in that the
 applications are installed directly from the browser itself
 rather than from an app store...
 
 It sounds like to me the idea is to allow any site on the internet to
 become a app store. My observations are the various app stores provide
 vendor lock-in and ensure a revenue stream. Its architected into the
 platform. Companies like Apple, Microsoft and RIM likely *won't* give
 up lock-in or the revenue stream (at least not without a fight).
 
 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?

Isn't Add to homescreen feature something you can find in a more or
less advanced fashion on Safari iOS, Firefox Android, Firefox OS and
Chrome Android? I believe IE had something similar some time ago on
desktop but I don't know what's the current status of that. Chrome Apps
is also doing some experiments on desktop [1].

[1] https://plus.google.com/+FrancoisBeaufort/posts/74WCmneFJ8j

-- Mounir



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-31 Thread James Greene
You're probably think of IE's Pinned Sites concept on Windows 8:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg491731.aspx

Sincerely,
James Greene
Sent from my [smart?]phone
On May 31, 2014 10:35 AM, Mounir Lamouri mou...@lamouri.fr wrote:

 On Sat, 31 May 2014, at 10:40, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
  I have a question about Use Cases for Installable WebApps located at
  https://w3c-webmob.github.io/installable-webapps/.
 
  Under section Add to Homescreen, the document states:
 
  ... giving developers the choice to tightly integrate their web
  applications into the OS directly from the Web browser is
  still somewhat new...
 
  ... [Installable WebApps] are different in that the
  applications are installed directly from the browser itself
  rather than from an app store...
 
  It sounds like to me the idea is to allow any site on the internet to
  become a app store. My observations are the various app stores provide
  vendor lock-in and ensure a revenue stream. Its architected into the
  platform. Companies like Apple, Microsoft and RIM likely *won't* give
  up lock-in or the revenue stream (at least not without a fight).
 
  Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
  any traction among the platform vendors?

 Isn't Add to homescreen feature something you can find in a more or
 less advanced fashion on Safari iOS, Firefox Android, Firefox OS and
 Chrome Android? I believe IE had something similar some time ago on
 desktop but I don't know what's the current status of that. Chrome Apps
 is also doing some experiments on desktop [1].

 [1] https://plus.google.com/+FrancoisBeaufort/posts/74WCmneFJ8j

 -- Mounir




WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-30 Thread Jeffrey Walton
I have a question about Use Cases for Installable WebApps located at
https://w3c-webmob.github.io/installable-webapps/.

Under section Add to Homescreen, the document states:

... giving developers the choice to tightly integrate their web
applications into the OS directly from the Web browser is
still somewhat new...

... [Installable WebApps] are different in that the
applications are installed directly from the browser itself
rather than from an app store...

It sounds like to me the idea is to allow any site on the internet to
become a app store. My observations are the various app stores provide
vendor lock-in and ensure a revenue stream. Its architected into the
platform. Companies like Apple, Microsoft and RIM likely *won't* give
up lock-in or the revenue stream (at least not without a fight).

Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
any traction among the platform vendors?

Thanks in advance.



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-30 Thread Brendan Eich

Jeffrey Walton wrote:

Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
any traction among the platform vendors?


Firefox OS wants this.

/be



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-30 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.org wrote:
 Jeffrey Walton wrote:

 Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
 any traction among the platform vendors?

 Firefox OS wants this.
Thanks Brendan.

As a second related question, is an Installable WebApp considered a
side-loaded app?



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-30 Thread Brendan Eich

Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Brendan Eichbren...@mozilla.org  wrote:

Jeffrey Walton wrote:

Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
any traction among the platform vendors?

Firefox OS wants this.

Thanks Brendan.

As a second related question, is an Installable WebApp considered a
side-loaded app?


Sicking can answer with more authority, but side-loaded or downloaded, 
so long as the user installs it, no difference.


/be



Re: WebApp installation via the browser

2014-05-30 Thread marc fawzi
Another question about the subject

https://developers.google.com/chrome/apps/docs/developers_guide

This says that they can also run in the background, which is huge.

I'm not sure if they support content scripts like extensions and packaged
apps do. I would love to find out if the spec says anything about that.

Thanks in advance,

Marc


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Jeffrey Walton noloa...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Brendan Eich bren...@mozilla.org wrote:
  Jeffrey Walton wrote:
 
  Are there any platforms providing the feature? Has the feature gained
  any traction among the platform vendors?
 
  Firefox OS wants this.
 Thanks Brendan.

 As a second related question, is an Installable WebApp considered a
 side-loaded app?