Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
+1, duplicating material is a recipe for disaster. regards, Frederick Frederick Hirsch Nokia On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:22 AM, ext Robin Berjon wrote: On Dec 1, 2009, at 22:22 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: Can you please update this to just be a delta? As far as I know W3C specs, delta documents are usually errata or WG Notes. What we have been calling delta specification in WebApps are specifications that add to another. For instance, WARP adds the access element to P+C. It doesn't make some huge cut and paste of P +C just because it modifies. This is as much about sane editing practice and being able to work with a team as it is about clean architecture and separation of concerns. The expectation was that WARP4U would add something to WARP, perhaps attributes, perhaps attribute values, perhaps child elements, and certainly some processing. It's a delta spec. It's not considered to be the next version, it's a different feature set. Therefore I would keep the document as it is. I then have to maintain the strongest objection possible to it being published, even as FPWD. Such copying is inappropriate, and will lead to no end of editorial problems. It fosters confusion and brings no value. -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
RE: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
I agree with the principle. I hope this approach could propagate to other specs and WGs, like Geo API etc. It is probably too late for some other specs, though. Thanks, Marcin Marcin Hanclik ACCESS Systems Germany GmbH Tel: +49-208-8290-6452 | Fax: +49-208-8290-6465 Mobile: +49-163-8290-646 E-Mail: marcin.hanc...@access-company.com -Original Message- From: Frederick Hirsch [mailto:frederick.hir...@nokia.com] Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:10 PM To: ext Robin Berjon Cc: Frederick Hirsch; Marcin Hanclik; Barstow Art (Nokia-CIC/Boston); public-webapps Subject: Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference +1, duplicating material is a recipe for disaster. regards, Frederick Frederick Hirsch Nokia On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:22 AM, ext Robin Berjon wrote: On Dec 1, 2009, at 22:22 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: Can you please update this to just be a delta? As far as I know W3C specs, delta documents are usually errata or WG Notes. What we have been calling delta specification in WebApps are specifications that add to another. For instance, WARP adds the access element to P+C. It doesn't make some huge cut and paste of P +C just because it modifies. This is as much about sane editing practice and being able to work with a team as it is about clean architecture and separation of concerns. The expectation was that WARP4U would add something to WARP, perhaps attributes, perhaps attribute values, perhaps child elements, and certainly some processing. It's a delta spec. It's not considered to be the next version, it's a different feature set. Therefore I would keep the document as it is. I then have to maintain the strongest objection possible to it being published, even as FPWD. Such copying is inappropriate, and will lead to no end of editorial problems. It fosters confusion and brings no value. -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ Access Systems Germany GmbH Essener Strasse 5 | D-46047 Oberhausen HRB 13548 Amtsgericht Duisburg Geschaeftsfuehrer: Michel Piquemal, Tomonori Watanabe, Yusuke Kanda www.access-company.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments hereto may contain information that is privileged or confidential, and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any disclosure, copying or distribution of the information by anyone else is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify us promptly by responding to this e-mail. Thank you.
Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
On Dec 1, 2009, at 22:22 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: Can you please update this to just be a delta? As far as I know W3C specs, delta documents are usually errata or WG Notes. What we have been calling delta specification in WebApps are specifications that add to another. For instance, WARP adds the access element to P+C. It doesn't make some huge cut and paste of P+C just because it modifies. This is as much about sane editing practice and being able to work with a team as it is about clean architecture and separation of concerns. The expectation was that WARP4U would add something to WARP, perhaps attributes, perhaps attribute values, perhaps child elements, and certainly some processing. It's a delta spec. It's not considered to be the next version, it's a different feature set. Therefore I would keep the document as it is. I then have to maintain the strongest objection possible to it being published, even as FPWD. Such copying is inappropriate, and will lead to no end of editorial problems. It fosters confusion and brings no value. -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
RE: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
Hi Robin, The expectation was that WARP4U would add something to WARP, perhaps attributes, perhaps attribute values, perhaps child elements, and certainly some processing. It's a delta spec. It's not considered to be the next version, it's a different feature set. Ok, I agree. I will then add an excerpt about the local special value and its processing model. It will be potentially extremely short. Thanks, Marcin Marcin Hanclik ACCESS Systems Germany GmbH Tel: +49-208-8290-6452 | Fax: +49-208-8290-6465 Mobile: +49-163-8290-646 E-Mail: marcin.hanc...@access-company.com -Original Message- From: Robin Berjon [mailto:ro...@berjon.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:22 PM To: Marcin Hanclik Cc: Arthur Barstow; public-webapps Subject: Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference On Dec 1, 2009, at 22:22 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: Can you please update this to just be a delta? As far as I know W3C specs, delta documents are usually errata or WG Notes. What we have been calling delta specification in WebApps are specifications that add to another. For instance, WARP adds the access element to P+C. It doesn't make some huge cut and paste of P+C just because it modifies. This is as much about sane editing practice and being able to work with a team as it is about clean architecture and separation of concerns. The expectation was that WARP4U would add something to WARP, perhaps attributes, perhaps attribute values, perhaps child elements, and certainly some processing. It's a delta spec. It's not considered to be the next version, it's a different feature set. Therefore I would keep the document as it is. I then have to maintain the strongest objection possible to it being published, even as FPWD. Such copying is inappropriate, and will lead to no end of editorial problems. It fosters confusion and brings no value. -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ Access Systems Germany GmbH Essener Strasse 5 | D-46047 Oberhausen HRB 13548 Amtsgericht Duisburg Geschaeftsfuehrer: Michel Piquemal, Tomonori Watanabe, Yusuke Kanda www.access-company.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments hereto may contain information that is privileged or confidential, and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. Any disclosure, copying or distribution of the information by anyone else is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify us promptly by responding to this e-mail. Thank you.
Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
On Dec 2, 2009, at 14:48 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: Ok, I agree. I will then add an excerpt about the local special value and its processing model. Great! It will be potentially extremely short. There's nothing wrong with that, short specs are good! -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
Re: [WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
Hi Marcin, On Nov 20, 2009, at 18:12 , Marcin Hanclik wrote: As discussed on the yesterday's call, I committed to CVS the WARP spec with the section about local network (required for UPnP use cases) at: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-access-upnp/ What we discussed on the call was actually creating this as a delta specification that would add a way of expressing that access to the local network is requested. I don't think that it's a good idea to copy the rest of the WARP spec since any edit will bring it out of sync. It's also confusing in that it gives the impression that this document defines WARP, or that simply adding a local keyword is enough to make it work. Can you please update this to just be a delta? Thanks, -- Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
[WARP4U] WARP with UPnP, was: RE: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
Hi All, As discussed on the yesterday's call, I committed to CVS the WARP spec with the section about local network (required for UPnP use cases) at: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-access-upnp/ Handling of local network is based on my proposal from [1]. Thanks, Marcin [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0456.html Marcin Hanclik ACCESS Systems Germany GmbH Tel: +49-208-8290-6452 | Fax: +49-208-8290-6465 Mobile: +49-163-8290-646 E-Mail: marcin.hanc...@access-company.com -Original Message- From: public-webapps-requ...@w3.org [mailto:public-webapps-requ...@w3.org] On Behalf Of Arthur Barstow Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:05 PM To: public-webapps Subject: [widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference The draft minutes from the 19 November Widgets voice conference are available at the following and copied below: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-wam-minutes.html WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send them to the public-webapps mail list before 3 December 2009 (the next Widgets voice conference); otherwise these minutes will be considered Approved. -Art Barstow [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - Widgets Voice Conf 19 Nov 2009 [2]Agenda [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0763.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-wam-irc Attendees Present Art, Arve, Robin, David, Marcin, Steven, Marcos, Frederick, Suresh, Benoit, Doug, Chitturi Regrets Chair Art Scribe Art Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Agenda review 2. [6]Announcements: 3. [7]PC spec: LCWD#3 comment period ends 19 November 4. [8]PC spec: CfC to publish CR#2 5. [9]WARP spec: Patent exclusions by Apple ; PAG Next steps .. 6. [10]WARP spec: comments 7. [11]URI Scheme spec 8. [12]AOB * [13]Summary of Action Items _ scribe Scribe: Art scribe ScribeNick: ArtB Date: 19 November 2009 drogersuk I can't hear anything either arve neither do I drogersuk that's better arve now, I'm at least hearing ArtB talk Steven Doug and I keep ending up on the same call, but no one else marcin Marcos, :) Marcos Marcin, quickly check out the email I just sent you Steven, Doug - we're all here on 9231 Steven Doug and steven on a separate call again Agenda review AB: draft agenda is [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 63.html ... any change requests on the agenda? [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0763.html marcin Marcos, long email :). I think option 3 should win, but I need to check what parameters we may have. I will respond shortly. AB: any change requests on agenda? [ None ] MC: can we add Marcin's regarding PC? AB: yes Announcements: AB: No Voice Conf on 26 November; next one will be 3 December ... Reminder: last day to request publications for 2009 is Friday 18 December ... WebApps has been asked to submit comments re OASIS' Packaging spec for ODF for Office Apps spec; see ( [15]http://www.w3.org/mid/4b016692.2090...@w3.org ) for details ... Doug, anything to add? [15] http://www.w3.org/mid/4b016692.2090...@w3.org DS: they are using ZIP too AB: if there are comments, send them to the OASIS list DS: if need clarification on list, let me know AB: any other annoucements? [ None ] PC spec: LCWD#3 comment period ends 19 November DS: I am on the ODF Tech Committee ... my main reason is SVG ... but I can be a pipe for other ODF comments SP: I will also join the ODF TC but not as a W3C rep AB: November 19 is the last day to submit comments re PC LC#3 ( [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-20091029/ ). ... the comment tracking document is ( [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-2 0091029/ ). Marcos, that document must be up to date before the Director's call. ... the Director's call is tentatively set for Nov 23 ... Marcos, which comments still lack a WG response? My count is 5 total: 2 from Marcin ( [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 11.html and [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 50.html ), 1 from Ericsson ( [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/05 67.html ), 1 from Scott Wilson ( [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-20091029/ [17] http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD
[widgets] Draft Minutes for 19 November 2009 Voice Conference
The draft minutes from the 19 November Widgets voice conference are available at the following and copied below: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-wam-minutes.html WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send them to the public-webapps mail list before 3 December 2009 (the next Widgets voice conference); otherwise these minutes will be considered Approved. -Art Barstow [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - Widgets Voice Conf 19 Nov 2009 [2]Agenda [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0763.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/11/19-wam-irc Attendees Present Art, Arve, Robin, David, Marcin, Steven, Marcos, Frederick, Suresh, Benoit, Doug, Chitturi Regrets Chair Art Scribe Art Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Agenda review 2. [6]Announcements: 3. [7]PC spec: LCWD#3 comment period ends 19 November 4. [8]PC spec: CfC to publish CR#2 5. [9]WARP spec: Patent exclusions by Apple ; PAG Next steps .. 6. [10]WARP spec: comments 7. [11]URI Scheme spec 8. [12]AOB * [13]Summary of Action Items _ scribe Scribe: Art scribe ScribeNick: ArtB Date: 19 November 2009 drogersuk I can't hear anything either arve neither do I drogersuk that's better arve now, I'm at least hearing ArtB talk Steven Doug and I keep ending up on the same call, but no one else marcin Marcos, :) Marcos Marcin, quickly check out the email I just sent you Steven, Doug - we're all here on 9231 Steven Doug and steven on a separate call again Agenda review AB: draft agenda is [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 63.html ... any change requests on the agenda? [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0763.html marcin Marcos, long email :). I think option 3 should win, but I need to check what parameters we may have. I will respond shortly. AB: any change requests on agenda? [ None ] MC: can we add Marcin's regarding PC? AB: yes Announcements: AB: No Voice Conf on 26 November; next one will be 3 December ... Reminder: last day to request publications for 2009 is Friday 18 December ... WebApps has been asked to submit comments re OASIS' Packaging spec for ODF for Office Apps spec; see ( [15]http://www.w3.org/mid/4b016692.2090...@w3.org ) for details ... Doug, anything to add? [15] http://www.w3.org/mid/4b016692.2090...@w3.org DS: they are using ZIP too AB: if there are comments, send them to the OASIS list DS: if need clarification on list, let me know AB: any other annoucements? [ None ] PC spec: LCWD#3 comment period ends 19 November DS: I am on the ODF Tech Committee ... my main reason is SVG ... but I can be a pipe for other ODF comments SP: I will also join the ODF TC but not as a W3C rep AB: November 19 is the last day to submit comments re PC LC#3 ( [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-20091029/ ). ... the comment tracking document is ( [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-2 0091029/ ). Marcos, that document must be up to date before the Director's call. ... the Director's call is tentatively set for Nov 23 ... Marcos, which comments still lack a WG response? My count is 5 total: 2 from Marcin ( [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 11.html and [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/07 50.html ), 1 from Ericsson ( [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/05 67.html ), 1 from Scott Wilson ( [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-20091029/ [17] http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD- widgets-20091029/ [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0711.html [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0750.html [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0567.html [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w ebapps/2009OctDec/0808.html ) and 1 from Benoit ( [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/04 69.html ) . [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 2009OctDec/0469.html AB: let's make sure we are all on the same page re these comments ... what's the plan to populate the CT doc? MC: I'll start tomorrow ... Benoit's is open scribe ACTION: benoit close the loop on your PC comment [recorded in
