Re: Nice version Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[Dimitri Glazkov]

Will do.

:DG<

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:08 AM,  wrote:

> Attached here is a clean version, which will be archived.
>
> Note that there was a lot of sidechat in IRC it is unclear how much of
> that everyone in the room was aware of. I hope the minutes are a pretty
> accurate record now, but if people feel otherwise I hope they say so.
>
> I'll link this version to the meeting page in the wiki:
> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/WebComponentsApril2015Meeting
>
> Dimitri, can you please forward the link to attendees who are not members
> of webapps?
>
> cheers
>
> 26.04.2015, 00:14, "cha...@yandex-team.ru" :
> > 25.04.2015, 14:45, "Bjoern Hoehrmann" :
> >>  * cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:
> >>>  We'll post a summary - there is most of one at
> >>>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
> >>  Perhaps a document in some kind of open format would be a better medium
> >>  than some proprietary application with unclear stability policies that
> >>  does not work in my browser.
> >>>  The minutes (thanks to Taylor Savage fora  great scribing job) are at
> >>>  http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html
> >>  That contains just a few lines. Looks like the decade-old UTC day
> change
> >>  bug is still plaguing the minutes generation tool.
> >
> > Sigh. Well, alternatively it is the decades-old scribe forgetting to do
> the thing right… I'll put together the minutes and repost them shortly.
> >
> > I've attached a rough version but I'll need to do some more cleaning
> because I made a mess halfway through. The content is there and legible at
> least…
> >>  --
> >>  Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de ·
> http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
> >>  D-10243 Berlin · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 ·
> http://www.bjoernsworld.de
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > --
> > Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> > cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

Nice version Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[chaals]

Attached here is a clean version, which will be archived.

Note that there was a lot of sidechat in IRC it is unclear how much of that 
everyone in the room was aware of. I hope the minutes are a pretty accurate 
record now, but if people feel otherwise I hope they say so.

I'll link this version to the meeting page in the wiki: 
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/WebComponentsApril2015Meeting

Dimitri, can you please forward the link to attendees who are not members of 
webapps?

cheers

26.04.2015, 00:14, "cha...@yandex-team.ru" :
> 25.04.2015, 14:45, "Bjoern Hoehrmann" :
>>  * cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:
>>>  We'll post a summary - there is most of one at
>>>  
>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
>>  Perhaps a document in some kind of open format would be a better medium
>>  than some proprietary application with unclear stability policies that
>>  does not work in my browser.
>>>  The minutes (thanks to Taylor Savage fora  great scribing job) are at
>>>  http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html
>>  That contains just a few lines. Looks like the decade-old UTC day change
>>  bug is still plaguing the minutes generation tool.
>
> Sigh. Well, alternatively it is the decades-old scribe forgetting to do the 
> thing right… I'll put together the minutes and repost them shortly.
>
> I've attached a rough version but I'll need to do some more cleaning because 
> I made a mess halfway through. The content is there and legible at least…
>>  --
>>  Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
>>  D-10243 Berlin · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
>
> cheers
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.comTitle: Web apps Web Components meeting -- 26 Apr 2015





 



 - DRAFT - 
Webapps Web Components meeting
24 Apr 2015

Agenda

Attendees



Present
Chaals, Léonie, Mike™, AnnevK, Arron, Travis, Hayato, Smaug, DGlazkov, CWilso, AlexR, SamW, Maciej, TedOC, HayatoIto, Rysouke, JanMiskovsky, DomenicD, Travis_Leithead, AliceBoxhall, WilliamChen, ScottM, ErikBryn, MarkG, SteveOrvell, Misko, WilsonPage, AdamKlein, TaylorSavage, JustinF
Regrets

Chair
DGlazkov, chaals 
Scribe
chaals, taylor



Contents

  Topics
	
	Introductions
State of consensus and contention
Multiple shadow roots per element
Default value of "closed shadow tree"
Imperative distribution API
Separate event retargeting from style composition
Shadow boundary piercing combinators
consensus points...
what does closed *mean*?
Event retargeting
Named slots
Styling

	
  
  Summary of Action Items
  Summary of Resolutions












 scribe: chaals




Introductions

DG: Lots of people here... that's good. 
... goal of the meeting is to make sure we move Web Components closer to being interoperable standard (actually shipped...) 
... There are some contentious bits on Shadow DOM, and we aim to resolve that here. 
... We need to determine what goes into v1 that we can all live with and ship - and put the rest into a v2 
... I would like to leave here not just feeling happy, but actually going to do work and knowing what it will be. 
... would like to have champions for the things that we have to do still. 
... The goal is to get browsers implementing, but we need experts from the rest of the ecosystem to tell us about their experience too.



CW: Chris Wilson - mostly here to find the tea... (Googler)



RN: Ryosuke Niwa, Apple



AB: Alice Boxhall, Google accessibility - chrome



Misko: work on angular.js



OP: Olli Pettay / Smaug from mozilla



WC: William Chen, firefox



EO: Ted OConnor, Apple



HI: Hayato Ito, work on shadow dom for google and spec it



JustinF: Work on polymer



AvK: Anne, work for moz on standards



SW: Sam Weinig, Apple



MS: Mike™ Smith, W3C



LJW: Léonie Watson, Paciello Group.



CMN: Chaals from Yandex



AE: Arron Eicholz, MS - work on webapps



TL: Travis Leithead - the MS guy



EB: Erik Bryn



MG: Mark Giffin, writing web components docs for MDN



WP: Wilson Page, working with Web Components on firefox OS



Jan: Founder of component kitchen



MJS: Maciej, webkit at Apple



AR: Alex Russell, googler on web platform



AK: Adam Klein, V8 at google



SM: Scott Miles, work on polymer team



TS: Taylor Savage, google



SO: Steve Orvell google



[polymer team people listening on the phone - we don't let them speak]



 here in irc as well



[Domenic Denicola (Google) arrived later]


State of consensus and contention

DG: Most vendors aside from Google have explained their current position... 
... would like to figure out how important contentions are - blocker, useful to have, v1 or v2 or...



 https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/wiki/Shadow-DOM:-Contenti

Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[chaals]

25.04.2015, 14:45, "Bjoern Hoehrmann" :
> * cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:
>> We'll post a summary - there is most of one at
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
>
> Perhaps a document in some kind of open format would be a better medium
> than some proprietary application with unclear stability policies that
> does not work in my browser.
>> The minutes (thanks to Taylor Savage fora  great scribing job) are at
>> http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html
>
> That contains just a few lines. Looks like the decade-old UTC day change
> bug is still plaguing the minutes generation tool.

Sigh. Well, alternatively it is the decades-old scribe forgetting to do the 
thing right… I'll put together the minutes and repost them shortly.

I've attached a rough version but I'll need to do some more cleaning because I 
made a mess halfway through. The content is there and legible at least…

> --
> Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
> D-10243 Berlin · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de

cheers

--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Title: Web apps Web COmponents meeting -- 24 Apr 2015





 



 - DRAFT - 
Web apps Web COmponents meeting
24 Apr 2015

Agenda


See also: IRC log

Attendees



Present
Chaals, Léonie, Mike™, AnnevK, Arron, Travis, Hayato, Smaug, DGlazkov, CWilso, AlexR, SamW, Maciej, TedOC, Domenic, Travis_Leithead, AliceBoxhall, WilliamChen, ScottM, ErikBryn, MarkG, SteveOrvell, Misko, WilsonPage, AdamKlein, TaylorSavage
Regrets

Chair
DGlazkov, chaals 
Scribe
chaals



Contents

  Topics
	
	Introductions
State of consensus and contention
Multiple shadow roots per element
Default value of "closed shadow tree"
Imperative distribution API
Seperate event retargeting from style composition
Shadow boundary piercing combinators
consensus points...
what does closed *mean*?
Event retargetting
Named slots
Styling

	
  
  Summary of Action Items
  Summary of Resolutions





Introductions

DG: Lots of people here... that's good. 
... goal of the meeting is to make sure we move Web Components closer to being interoperable standard (actually shipped...) 
... There are some contentious bits on Shadow DOM, and we aim to resolve that here. 
... We need to determine what goes into v1 that we can all live with and ship - and put the rest into a v2 
... I would like to leave here not just feeling happy, but actually going to do work and knowing what it will be. 
... would like to have champions for the things that we have to do still. 
... The goal is to get browsers implementing, but we need experts from the rest of the ecosystem to tell us about their experience too.



CW: Chris Wilson - mostly here to find the tea... (Googler)



RN: Ryosuke Niwa, Apple



AB: Alice Boxhall, Google accessibility - chrome



Misko: work on angular.js



OP: Smaug from mozilla



WC: William Chen, firefox



EO: Ted O'Connor, Apple



HI: Hayato Ito, work on shadow dom for google and spec it



Justin: Work on polymer



AvK: Anne, work for Mozilla on standards



SW: Sam Weinig, Apple



MS: Mike™ Smith, W3C



LJW: Léonie Watson, Paciello Group.



CMN: Chaals from Yandex



AE: Arron Eichols, MS - work on webapps



TL: Travis Leithead - the MS guy



EB: Erik Bryn



MG: Mark Giffin, writing web components docs for MDN



WP: Wilson Page, working with Web Components on firefox OS



Jan: Founder of component kitchen



MJS: Maciej, webkit at Apple



AR: Alex Russell, googler on web platform



AK: Adam Klein, V8 at google



SM: Scott Miles, work on polymer team



TS: Taylor Savage, google



SA: Steve Orvell google



[polymer team people listening on the phone - we don't let them speak]



 here in irc as well


State of consensus and contention

DG: Most vendors aside from Google have explained their current position... 
... would like to figure out how important contentions are - blocker, useful to have, v1 or v2 or...



 https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/wiki/Shadow-DOM:-Contentious-Bits



-> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/wiki/Shadow-DOM:-Contentious-Bits The collected points of disagreement...


Multiple shadow roots per element

MJS: Apple thinks this should be removed and replaced with something like the "named slots" proposal. Strongly think this is the case for v1 - better to replace it with something useful or subclassing won't be useful. 
... there is a time trade off to replacing it



AvK: Mozilla probably don't care strongly for v1 - we would like some solution, and the Apple thing might (or not) work for us...



DG: So there is an alternative, which is not the same as "let's drop what we have"



TL: For multiple shadow roots, should be removed in v1. You can get a lot done just with a single shadow. I like Apple's proposal simplifying the way content is distributed. See

Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[Arthur Barstow]

On 4/25/15 8:45 AM, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

* cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:

We'll post a summary - there is most of one at
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Perhaps a document in some kind of open format would be a better medium
than some proprietary application with unclear stability policies that
does not work in my browser.


I just copied the data in the above document to the meeting's agenda page:

Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[Arthur Barstow]

On 4/25/15 8:45 AM, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

* cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:

http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html


See .


That contains just a few lines. Looks like the decade-old UTC day change
bug is still plaguing the minutes generation tool.

Re: Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[Bjoern Hoehrmann]

* cha...@yandex-team.ru wrote:
>We'll post a summary - there is most of one at
>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
> 

Perhaps a document in some kind of open format would be a better medium
than some proprietary application with unclear stability policies that
does not work in my browser.

>The minutes (thanks to Taylor Savage fora  great scribing job) are at 
>http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html

That contains just a few lines. Looks like the decade-old UTC day change
bug is still plaguing the minutes generation tool.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
D-10243 Berlin · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de

Minutes of Shadow DOM meeting

[chaals]

Hi folks,

we're just cleaning up now.

We'll post a summary - there is most of one at 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnCoaJTXkfSSHD5spISJ76nqbDcOVNMamgByiz3QWLA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
 

The minutes (thanks to Taylor Savage fora  great scribing job) are at 
http://www.w3.org/2015/04/25-webapps-minutes.html

cheers

Chaals

--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com