RE: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-12 Thread LĂ©onie Watson
From: Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:m...@apple.com] Sent: 12 May 2015 03:34 On May 7, 2015, at 12:59 AM, Domenic Denicola d...@domenic.me wrote: From: Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: Currently ARIA does

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-11 Thread Steve Faulkner
On 9 May 2015 at 22:22, Alice Boxhall aboxh...@google.com wrote: However, I'm on the fence about whether this proposal is the way forward for that problem. On the one hand, many developers (including me) have an expectation when they first encounter ARIA that it will magically affect

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-11 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On May 7, 2015, at 12:59 AM, Domenic Denicola d...@domenic.me wrote: From: Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: Currently ARIA does not do this stuff AFAIK. Correct. ARIA only exposes strings to AT. We could

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-09 Thread Alice Boxhall
I agree we badly need the primitives, but it seems to me like there is potentially an easier and maybe even bigger win in making it more straightforward for developers to reuse existing patterns (like the one you described for button earlier) than in explaining the existing patterns and allowing

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Bruce Lawson
On 7 May 2015 at 06:43, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: On another thread recent thread, leonie and chaals [3] talked about adding behaviours to ARIA. this makes sense, but (unless I'm inventing nonsense because I'm mad, which is definitely possible), doesn't this describe the

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: Currently ARIA does not do this stuff AFAIK. Correct. ARIA only exposes strings to AT. We could maybe make it do more, once we understand what more means, which is basically figuring out HTML as Custom Elements...

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Domenic Denicola
From: Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: Currently ARIA does not do this stuff AFAIK. Correct. ARIA only exposes strings to AT. We could maybe make it do more, once we understand what more means, which is

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Steve Faulkner
On 7 May 2015 at 07:53, Bruce Lawson bru...@opera.com wrote: this makes sense, but (unless I'm inventing nonsense because I'm mad, which is definitely possible), doesn't this describe the current behaviour in many UAs anyway? Currently ARIA does not do this stuff AFAIK. There is some limited

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
On 07/05/2015 08:59, Domenic Denicola wrote: ... These are my thoughts as well. The proposal seems nice as a convenient way to get a given bundle of behaviors. But we *really* need to stop considering these roles as atomic, and instead break them down into what they really mean. In other words,

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

2015-05-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
On 07/05/2015 08:02, Steve Faulkner wrote: On 7 May 2015 at 07:53, Bruce Lawson bru...@opera.com mailto:bru...@opera.com wrote: this makes sense, but (unless I'm inventing nonsense because I'm mad, which is definitely possible), doesn't this describe the current behaviour in many