Re: copy events and content from server
On Tue, 17 May 2011 15:50:30 +0900, Paul Libbrecht p...@hoplahup.net wrote: you seem to have not included João Eiras' answer: Seems I overlooked that indeed. I thought something similar but didn't include this, so it's good that João brought it up. Le 5 mai 2011 à 04:34, João Eiras a écrit : A synchronous XHR solves this use case and there are no magic locks. But, couldn't a better solution, not involving locks, be a variation of what you suggest:? event.clipboardData.pushDataFromRequest(flavour, xhr) This is actually quite nice, IMO. It avoids imposing limitations on the HTTP traffic the way my first suggestion did. Either the script (by listening to readystatechange events) or the UA can show some progress indication. We also get all the same-origin security limitations and CORS (in CORS-supporting UAs) for free. The main downside I see, is that if the request takes more than a couple of seconds to complete, the user might meanwhile have copied something that will get overwritten in an unexpected way. Practically, the other downside is that since we re-use HTML5's DataTransfer for clipboardData, this will have to be defined in the HTML spec - since it's a new feature I guess that at this point means it will go into HTML6, so we won't see it for a while. I think Ian Hickson keeps track of such feature requests but I'm not entirely sure how to get it onto his list. I'm surprised to be the only one pushing this considering the huge wealth of desktop-like services. Use cases such as copy-a-pdf-fragment from Google Docs Drawing, generate a complex ICS, or produce a good raster image from a graph-display... It often seems a bit random what ideas pop up during a standardisation process.. :-) -- Hallvord R. M. Steen, Core Tester, Opera Software http://www.opera.com http://my.opera.com/hallvors/
Re: copy events and content from server
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Hallvord R. M. Steen hallv...@opera.com wrote: Practically, the other downside is that since we re-use HTML5's DataTransfer for clipboardData, this will have to be defined in the HTML spec - since it's a new feature I guess that at this point means it will go into HTML6, so we won't see it for a while. I think Ian Hickson keeps track of such feature requests but I'm not entirely sure how to get it onto his list. New features can still be added freely to the WHATWG's draft of HTML, which will presumably be the basis of HTML6 when it arrives, and which implementers can refer to in the meantime. You can post to wha...@lists.whatwg.org or file a bug against HTML5 to get on Ian's list. I assume that the W3C will want to start publishing HTML6 sooner rather than later, too, because otherwise implementers will be forced to refer to the WHATWG copy exclusively if they intend to implement any new features beyond HTML5 (which they will).
Re: copy events and content from server
Hallvord,
you seem to have not included João Eiras' answer:
Le 5 mai 2011 à 04:34, João Eiras a écrit :
A synchronous XHR solves this use case and there are no magic locks.
Although I haven't explicitly tried to implement it and clearly feel it a
synchronous XHR can block the UI in an ugly way, it can indeed be sufficient.
But, couldn't a better solution, not involving locks, be a variation of what
you suggest:?
event.clipboardData.pushDataFromRequest(flavour, xhr)
The big difference is that there is a chance for the user-agent to display that
his copy action is being process. I think the flavour must stay in the hands of
the script (as the map media-types - flavors is currently very partial).
I'm surprised to be the only one pushing this considering the huge wealth of
desktop-like services. Use cases such as copy-a-pdf-fragment from Google Docs
Drawing, generate a complex ICS, or produce a good raster image from a
graph-display...
paul
Le 17 mai 2011 à 02:30, Hallvord R. M. Steen a écrit :
In many of the scenarios I have working for, the content to be put on the
clipboard would come from a luxury knowledge structure on the server, one
that has access to some semantic source and can infer useful
representations out of it; these get put to the clipboard.
An offline HTML would also be an example of it.
but I am realizing that this is probably not possible to do because the only
way to do obtain something from the server is to wait until a callback is
called (and this is good so) at which time the copy event might be long gone
already.
Indeed.
Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout occurs
or an unlock is called?
It sounds like a quite advanced use case. I briefly considered something
like event.clipboardData.pushContentsOfURL('/foo/bar') but that would be way
to limited in options - POST/GET, post data etc. I would like to defer this
to later and see if we get more demand for it. Overall, the push for web
applications is a lot about removing logic from the server and adding more on
the client's side, so I'm unsure how common this state (when the server knows
significantly more than the client-side logic about what should be placed on
the clipboard) is and will be going forward.
Re: copy events and content from server
On Wed, 04 May 2011 02:26:22 +0900, Paul Libbrecht p...@hoplahup.net
wrote:
In many of the scenarios I have working for, the content to be put on
the clipboard would come from a luxury knowledge structure on the
server, one that has access to some semantic source and can infer
useful representations out of it; these get put to the clipboard.
An offline HTML would also be an example of it.
but I am realizing that this is probably not possible to do because the
only way to do obtain something from the server is to wait until a
callback is called (and this is good so) at which time the copy event
might be long gone already.
Indeed.
Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout
occurs or an unlock is called?
It sounds like a quite advanced use case. I briefly considered something
like event.clipboardData.pushContentsOfURL('/foo/bar') but that would be
way to limited in options - POST/GET, post data etc. I would like to defer
this to later and see if we get more demand for it. Overall, the push for
web applications is a lot about removing logic from the server and adding
more on the client's side, so I'm unsure how common this state (when the
server knows significantly more than the client-side logic about what
should be placed on the clipboard) is and will be going forward.
--
Hallvord R. M. Steen, Core Tester, Opera Software
http://www.opera.com http://my.opera.com/hallvors/
Re: copy events and content from server
On , Paul Libbrecht p...@hoplahup.net wrote: Hello list, As noted in the thread about security started by Halvord: In many of the scenarios I have working for, the content to be put on the clipboard would come from a luxury knowledge structure on the server, one that has access to some semantic source and can infer useful representations out of it; these get put to the clipboard. An offline HTML would also be an example of it. but I am realizing that this is probably not possible to do because the only way to do obtain something from the server is to wait until a callback is called (and this is good so) at which time the copy event might be long gone already. Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout occurs or an unlock is called? This way the script in the client would be able to fetch rich transformations from the server. A synchronous XHR solves this use case and there are no magic locks.
copy events and content from server
Hello list, As noted in the thread about security started by Halvord: In many of the scenarios I have working for, the content to be put on the clipboard would come from a luxury knowledge structure on the server, one that has access to some semantic source and can infer useful representations out of it; these get put to the clipboard. An offline HTML would also be an example of it. but I am realizing that this is probably not possible to do because the only way to do obtain something from the server is to wait until a callback is called (and this is good so) at which time the copy event might be long gone already. Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout occurs or an unlock is called? This way the script in the client would be able to fetch rich transformations from the server. thanks in advance. paul PS: I would expect the same could be needed for the copy event which could want to write to the server.
Re: copy events and content from server
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Paul Libbrecht p...@hoplahup.net wrote: As noted in the thread about security started by Halvord: In many of the scenarios I have working for, the content to be put on the clipboard would come from a luxury knowledge structure on the server, one that has access to some semantic source and can infer useful representations out of it; these get put to the clipboard. An offline HTML would also be an example of it. but I am realizing that this is probably not possible to do because the only way to do obtain something from the server is to wait until a callback is called (and this is good so) at which time the copy event might be long gone already. Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout occurs or an unlock is called? No. We definitely don't want to lock a local system resource for some random web service that may potentially fail to release the lock. - Ryosuke
Re: copy events and content from server
Ryosuke, Le 3 mai 2011 à 21:15, Ryosuke Niwa a écrit : Would it be thinkable to *lock* the copy event until either a timeout occurs or an unlock is called? No. We definitely don't want to lock a local system resource for some random web service that may potentially fail to release the lock. I am not sure I made this clear. The intent is to let javascript operate a lock. Locking the system resource? Who spoke about that? That'd lock maybe some of the continuation of a script in that page... nothing else. It could start to operate on the clipboard only after the unlock has occurred (or a focus-lost has happened which would have declared that the copy operation is aborted). The random web-service in question is the web-server the user is currently using which could have delivered the information in question before, just did not because it did not know which information the user intended to copy! If you look at desktop apps, there are many apps that do very rich copy operations and these take time with a modal dialog sometimes displayed. paul
