RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-22 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger
.org public-editing...@w3.org, Julie Parent jpar...@gmail.com, public-indie...@w3.org public-indie- u...@w3.org, public-webapps public-webapps@w3.org Date: 09/19/2014 03:56 PM Subject: RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions) I agree that we can divide this work, but so far I

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-22 Thread Johannes Wilm
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger sch...@us.ibm.com wrote: So, you want to modify contenteditable to minimum. What will that do to existing apps. that are built on it? As has been mentioned before, the current (and broken) contenteditable will stay the way it is, to make

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-19 Thread Ben Peters
I agree that we can divide this work, but so far I think we should do 2 first. Being able to remove browser functionality with a simple API is going to be far quicker to implement (in browsers) and provides immediate benefit. Solving Intentions will be a longer process, but is also important to

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-19 Thread Ben Peters
I think what I'm hearing in this conversation about the shape of a new contentEditable is really that a simple minimal is not going to work. Instead, having something like a delimited list will satisfy more people. See the bug on GitHub [1] for more details.

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-19 Thread Ben Peters
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 1:54 AM, Johannes Wilm johan...@fiduswriter.org wrote: These both look quite good! On Example 3 on the commands explainer, I was wondering if it is the idea that custom actions only can be triggered by specific key presses, whereas for standard events are triggered by

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-12 Thread Frederico Knabben
On Thursday, 11 September 2014 at 17:38, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sep 9, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Johannes Wilm johan...@fiduswriter.org (mailto:johan...@fiduswriter.org) wrote: Absolutely. if this division means we can get into a saner place faster (and with a higher likelihood that it will

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-11 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Sep 9, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Johannes Wilm johan...@fiduswriter.org wrote: Absolutely. if this division means we can get into a saner place faster (and with a higher likelihood that it will actually happen) then I am all for it. Of course the long-term future of the web should be taken into

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-09 Thread Frederico Knabben
On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 20:55, Johannes Wilm wrote: If we include deletion/backspace and input text, that will then also mean merging of paragraphs (and other nodes) when the caret is at the beginning of a second paragraph and the backspace key is being hit? Definitely. It’s all

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-09 Thread Frederico Knabben
On Tuesday, 9 September 2014 at 11:13, Frederico Knabben wrote: I don’t think that browsers having time/will for it today is a good argumentation for not doing it. The specs have a critical and noble scope, of serving as reference for the future of the web. We’re talking about the future

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-09 Thread Piotr Koszuliński
I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I believe that after long discussions we left the question what should contenteditable=minimal be? unanswered. First the intention events lists should be created, so we can see what needs to be handled. And this is what Ben Peters is working on. Still we

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-09 Thread Johannes Wilm
Absolutely. if this division means we can get into a saner place faster (and with a higher likelihood that it will actually happen) then I am all for it. Of course the long-term future of the web should be taken into consideration as well, and as I understand it, this could be part of the second

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-08 Thread Frederico Knabben
Pretty good docs, Ben. I have comments mostly about Issue 2 (http://w3c.github.io/editing-explainer/#h_issue_2). As long as actions are well documented, browsers can provide defaults that will fit 90% of the *good quality* content creation requirements out there. Additionally just

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-08 Thread Johannes Wilm
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Frederico Knabben f.knab...@cksource.com wrote: snip IMHO, the following are the minimal features that it should provide: - Selection: UI (e.g. caret), creation (e.g. mouse) and modifications (e.g. arrows) - Focus (probably part of Selection, but it's so

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-06 Thread Johannes Wilm
These both look quite good! On Example 3 on the commands explainer, I was wondering if it is the idea that custom actions only can be triggered by specific key presses, whereas for standard events are triggered by intentions. So say that we listen for CTRL+C to trigger our custom intention

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-09-05 Thread Ben Peters
There is now an Editing Explainer [1] and a User Intentions Explainer [2], which should help scope the problems and help us drive forward on both areas. I haven't done much to fine tune them yet, but please let me know if you have feedback on this split from the initial Commands Explainer

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-08-11 Thread Ben Peters
: Jason White [mailto:ja...@jasonjgw.net] Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2014 4:56 PM To: public-indie...@w3.org Cc: public-editing...@w3.org; public-webapps@w3.org Subject: Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions) [Cross-posting the comments below per Janina's thoughtful request

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-08-09 Thread Jason White
[Cross-posting the comments below per Janina's thoughtful request.] I concur with Janina's insightful remark [at the Indie-UI teleconference on Thursday] that the explainer could evolve into a (potentially cross-group) requirements document. This raises several issues. 1. Harmonization of

RE: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-08-08 Thread Cynthia Shelly
This is a really solid list. Thank you for pulling it together, so we can start towards a harmonized set of user events. From: Ben Peters [mailto:ben.pet...@microsoft.com] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 7:28 PM To: public-editing...@w3.org; Julie Parent; public-indie...@w3.org; public-webapps

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-08-08 Thread James Craig
From: Julie Parent jpar...@google.com This is a great list, and I agree it is the right starting point. On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Ben Peters ben.pet...@microsoft.com wrote: * Activate / Invoke * Expand * Collapse * Dismiss * Media next/previous/start/stop/pause * Rotate

Re: User Intentions Explainer (was: List of Intentions)

2014-08-04 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Aug 4, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Ben Peters ben.pet...@microsoft.com wrote: Cross-posted​: Editing TF, IndieUI TF, WebApps WG In order to solve the broad issue of User Intentions, we have compiled below a list of User Intentions derived from all of the sources of intention-style events that I