Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Dennis Kliban]

I filed an issue[0] to track the effort to remove MariaDB support in Pulp 3.


[0] https://pulp.plan.io/issues/5129

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 1:01 PM Robin Chan  wrote:

> +1
> In May, the Foreman community warned us against trying to support many
> databases - saying the cost was too high.  Without any compelling reason to
> abandon earlier efforts to stay compatible, no action was taken at that
> time since the cost was nominal until now. With the new information, I
> agree the list of reasons in this thread justify the decision to drop
> MariaDB/MySQL.
>
> Mixed plugin support is the #1 reason for me.
>
> Robin Chan
> Satellite Software Engineering Manager - Pulp
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 11:59 AM Mike DePaulo 
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to drop
>>
>> My rationale:
>> At a previous job, MariaDB support would have helped us; we could use our
>> cluster.
>> But a non-clustered postgresql server + Pulp having a lot more features
>> (due to the limitations of MariaDB, and the saved developer time) would
>> have been overall more valuable.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 11:06 AM Dana Walker  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to drop MariaDB testing/support
>>>
>>> Dana Walker
>>>
>>> She / Her / Hers
>>>
>>> Software Engineer, Pulp Project
>>>
>>> Red Hat 
>>>
>>> dawal...@redhat.com
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:41 AM Ina Panova  wrote:
>>>
 +1 to drop MariaDB support.


 
 Regards,

 Ina Panova
 Senior Software Engineer| Pulp| Red Hat Inc.

 "Do not go where the path may lead,
  go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."


 On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
 wrote:

> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins)
> can no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an
> advocate for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The
> community survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they 
> wanted
> to use MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice
> in their database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons.
> I didn't feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a 
> point
> where we aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of
> giving users features they want versus db portability.
>
> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
> stated):
>
> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just
> a schema change?
> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text
> search. To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is
> amazing, and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all
> plugins will want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support
> for MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose
> to use because not all plugins can run in all places.
> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
> from using the JSONField.
> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
> run significantly slower
>
> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4.
> To remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
> config out to all repositories.
>
> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley 
> wrote:
>
>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>
>>
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to 
>>> store
>>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 
>>> 3-byte
>>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better 
>>> served by
>>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>>
>>> I personally am hesitant to give up being 

Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Robin Chan]

+1
In May, the Foreman community warned us against trying to support many
databases - saying the cost was too high.  Without any compelling reason to
abandon earlier efforts to stay compatible, no action was taken at that
time since the cost was nominal until now. With the new information, I
agree the list of reasons in this thread justify the decision to drop
MariaDB/MySQL.

Mixed plugin support is the #1 reason for me.

Robin Chan
Satellite Software Engineering Manager - Pulp



On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 11:59 AM Mike DePaulo  wrote:

> +1 to drop
>
> My rationale:
> At a previous job, MariaDB support would have helped us; we could use our
> cluster.
> But a non-clustered postgresql server + Pulp having a lot more features
> (due to the limitations of MariaDB, and the saved developer time) would
> have been overall more valuable.
>
> -Mike
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 11:06 AM Dana Walker  wrote:
>
>> +1 to drop MariaDB testing/support
>>
>> Dana Walker
>>
>> She / Her / Hers
>>
>> Software Engineer, Pulp Project
>>
>> Red Hat 
>>
>> dawal...@redhat.com
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:41 AM Ina Panova  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to drop MariaDB support.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Ina Panova
>>> Senior Software Engineer| Pulp| Red Hat Inc.
>>>
>>> "Do not go where the path may lead,
>>>  go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
 no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
 for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
 survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
 MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
 database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
 feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
 aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
 features they want versus db portability.

 Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
 stated):

 * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
 schema change?
 * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text
 search. To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is
 amazing, and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all
 plugins will want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
 * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support
 for MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose
 to use because not all plugins can run in all places.
 * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
 store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
 you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
 from using the JSONField.
 * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
 run significantly slower

 If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4.
 To remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
 plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
 config out to all repositories.

 I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
 hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.

 Thanks,
 Brian


 On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:

> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>
>
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
> wrote:
>
>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to 
>> store
>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 
>> 3-byte
>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served 
>> by
>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>
>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text 
>> search,
>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>> db specific code in some places or have 

Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Mike DePaulo]

+1 to drop

My rationale:
At a previous job, MariaDB support would have helped us; we could use our
cluster.
But a non-clustered postgresql server + Pulp having a lot more features
(due to the limitations of MariaDB, and the saved developer time) would
have been overall more valuable.

-Mike

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 11:06 AM Dana Walker  wrote:

> +1 to drop MariaDB testing/support
>
> Dana Walker
>
> She / Her / Hers
>
> Software Engineer, Pulp Project
>
> Red Hat 
>
> dawal...@redhat.com
> 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:41 AM Ina Panova  wrote:
>
>> +1 to drop MariaDB support.
>>
>>
>> 
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ina Panova
>> Senior Software Engineer| Pulp| Red Hat Inc.
>>
>> "Do not go where the path may lead,
>>  go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
>>> no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
>>> for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
>>> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
>>> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
>>> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
>>> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
>>> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
>>> features they want versus db portability.
>>>
>>> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
>>> stated):
>>>
>>> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
>>> schema change?
>>> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
>>> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
>>> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
>>> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
>>> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
>>> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
>>> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
>>> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
>>> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
>>> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
>>> from using the JSONField.
>>> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
>>> run significantly slower
>>>
>>> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4.
>>> To remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
>>> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
>>> config out to all repositories.
>>>
>>> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
>>> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>>>
 One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
 transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)


 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql

 On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
 wrote:

> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to 
> store
> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 
> 3-byte
> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served 
> by
> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>
> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with 
> certain
> database types.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> [0]
> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>
> David
> ___
> Pulp-dev mailing list
> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
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>
 ___
 Pulp-dev mailing list
 Pulp-dev@redhat.com
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>>> 

Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Dana Walker]

+1 to drop MariaDB testing/support

Dana Walker

She / Her / Hers

Software Engineer, Pulp Project

Red Hat 

dawal...@redhat.com




On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:41 AM Ina Panova  wrote:

> +1 to drop MariaDB support.
>
>
> 
> Regards,
>
> Ina Panova
> Senior Software Engineer| Pulp| Red Hat Inc.
>
> "Do not go where the path may lead,
>  go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
> wrote:
>
>> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
>> no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
>> for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
>> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
>> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
>> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
>> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
>> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
>> features they want versus db portability.
>>
>> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
>> stated):
>>
>> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
>> schema change?
>> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
>> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
>> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
>> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
>> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
>> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
>> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
>> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
>> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
>> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
>> from using the JSONField.
>> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
>> run significantly slower
>>
>> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
>> remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
>> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
>> config out to all repositories.
>>
>> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
>> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>>
>>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
 mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
 search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
 emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
 utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
 dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
 recently came to a similar conclusion[1].

 I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
 already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
 several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
 etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
 db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
 database types.

 Thoughts?

 [0]
 https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
 [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/

 David
 ___
 Pulp-dev mailing list
 Pulp-dev@redhat.com
 https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev

>>> ___
>>> Pulp-dev mailing list
>>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>>>
>> ___
>> Pulp-dev mailing list
>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>>
> ___
> Pulp-dev mailing list
> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>
___
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Ina Panova]

+1 to drop MariaDB support.



Regards,

Ina Panova
Senior Software Engineer| Pulp| Red Hat Inc.

"Do not go where the path may lead,
 go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."


On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse  wrote:

> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can no
> longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate for
> Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
> features they want versus db portability.
>
> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
> stated):
>
> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
> schema change?
> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
> from using the JSONField.
> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does run
> significantly slower
>
> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
> remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
> config out to all repositories.
>
> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>
>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>
>>
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
>>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
>>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
>>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>>
>>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
>>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>>> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
>>> database types.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> [0]
>>> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>>>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
>>> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>>>
>>> David
>>> ___
>>> Pulp-dev mailing list
>>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>>>
>> ___
>> Pulp-dev mailing list
>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>>
> ___
> Pulp-dev mailing list
> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
>
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Pavel Picka]

+1 to drop

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 4:15 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:

> +1 to remove MariaDB/MySQL support
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:09 AM Dennis Kliban  wrote:
>
>> +1 to drop support for mariadb
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:04 AM Austin Macdonald 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to remove.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
 no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
 for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
 survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
 MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
 database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
 feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
 aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
 features they want versus db portability.

 Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
 stated):

 * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
 schema change?
 * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text
 search. To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is
 amazing, and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all
 plugins will want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
 * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support
 for MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose
 to use because not all plugins can run in all places.
 * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
 store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
 you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
 from using the JSONField.
 * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
 run significantly slower

 If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4.
 To remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
 plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
 config out to all repositories.

 I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
 hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.

 Thanks,
 Brian


 On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:

> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>
>
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
> wrote:
>
>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to 
>> store
>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 
>> 3-byte
>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served 
>> by
>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>
>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text 
>> search,
>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with 
>> certain
>> database types.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> [0]
>> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
>> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>>
>> David
>> ___
>> Pulp-dev mailing list
>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Daniel Alley]

+1 to remove MariaDB/MySQL support




On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:09 AM Dennis Kliban  wrote:

> +1 to drop support for mariadb
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:04 AM Austin Macdonald 
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to remove.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
>>> no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
>>> for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
>>> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
>>> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
>>> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
>>> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
>>> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
>>> features they want versus db portability.
>>>
>>> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
>>> stated):
>>>
>>> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
>>> schema change?
>>> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
>>> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
>>> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
>>> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
>>> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
>>> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
>>> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
>>> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
>>> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
>>> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
>>> from using the JSONField.
>>> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
>>> run significantly slower
>>>
>>> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4.
>>> To remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
>>> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
>>> config out to all repositories.
>>>
>>> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
>>> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>>>
 One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
 transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)


 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql

 On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
 wrote:

> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to 
> store
> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 
> 3-byte
> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served 
> by
> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>
> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with 
> certain
> database types.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> [0]
> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>
> David
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Dennis Kliban]

+1 to drop support for mariadb

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:04 AM Austin Macdonald 
wrote:

> +1 to remove.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:10 PM Brian Bouterse 
> wrote:
>
>> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can
>> no longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate
>> for Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
>> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
>> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
>> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
>> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
>> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
>> features they want versus db portability.
>>
>> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
>> stated):
>>
>> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
>> schema change?
>> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
>> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
>> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
>> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
>> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
>> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
>> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
>> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
>> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
>> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
>> from using the JSONField.
>> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does
>> run significantly slower
>>
>> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
>> remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
>> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
>> config out to all repositories.
>>
>> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
>> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>>
>>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
 mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
 search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
 emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
 utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
 dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
 recently came to a similar conclusion[1].

 I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
 already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
 several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
 etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
 db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
 database types.

 Thoughts?

 [0]
 https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
 [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/

 David
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Austin Macdonald]

+1 to remove.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:10 PM Brian Bouterse  wrote:

> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can no
> longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate for
> Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
> features they want versus db portability.
>
> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
> stated):
>
> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
> schema change?
> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
> from using the JSONField.
> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does run
> significantly slower
>
> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
> remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
> config out to all repositories.
>
> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>
>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>
>>
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
>>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
>>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
>>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>>
>>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
>>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>>> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
>>> database types.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> [0]
>>> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>>>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
>>> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>>>
>>> David
>>> ___
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Tatiana Tereshchenko]

+1 to drop MariaDB support

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:10 PM Brian Bouterse  wrote:

> I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can no
> longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate for
> Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
> survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
> MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
> database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
> feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
> aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
> features they want versus db portability.
>
> Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
> stated):
>
> * utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
> schema change?
> * full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search.
> To my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing,
> and it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will
> want this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
> * mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
> MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
> use because not all plugins can run in all places.
> * specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
> store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
> you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
> from using the JSONField.
> * performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does run
> significantly slower
>
> If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
> remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
> plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
> config out to all repositories.
>
> I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the
> hope that you all can make and enact the final decision.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:
>
>> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
>> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>>
>>
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
>>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
>>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
>>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>>
>>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
>>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>>> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
>>> database types.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> [0]
>>> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>>>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
>>> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>>>
>>> David
>>> ___
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>>> Pulp-dev@redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pulp-dev
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Brian Bouterse]

I believe we have reached a point where Pulp (core and its plugins) can no
longer support MariaDB due to technical problems. I've been an advocate for
Pulp to support MariaDB because it's what our users want. The community
survey has 16 respondents (IIRC) and 30% of them said they wanted to use
MariaDB. Also, anecdotally at conference booths, users want choice in their
database. To not give them that, we need good, technical reasons. I didn't
feel we had enough of them before, but now I feel we're at a point where we
aren't able to solve these issues; it's becoming a choice of giving users
features they want versus db portability.

Here are the main reasons I think about (mostly what others have also
stated):

* utf8 issues - 3-byte utf-8 issues   < is this fixable with just a
schema change?
* full text search - pulp_ansible recently implemented full text search. To
my knowledge it's not possible with MySQL. full text search is amazing, and
it's driving pulp_ansible to drop postgreSQL. I bet all plugins will want
this. With MariaDB, there is no search.
* mixed plugin support concerns - With some plugins dropping support for
MariaDB, the pulp community will fracture based on what DB you choose to
use because not all plugins can run in all places.
* specific field support - plugin writers have expressed the desire to
store json data when their plugins natively contain json data and perhaps
you want to filter on it for example. Having mariaDB support prevents us
from using the JSONField.
* performance concerns - The performance testing showed that Pulp does run
significantly slower

If we drop MariaDB we should publish a blog post and drop it with RC4. To
remove MariaDB testing from Travis I propose we remove it from the
plugin_template and use the Travis CI tool from @dkliban to push that
config out to all repositories.

I'll be offline this week. I wanted to get this reply out there in the hope
that you all can make and enact the final decision.

Thanks,
Brian


On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:02 PM Daniel Alley  wrote:

> One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support
> transactions, which we use heavily (and rely on?)
>
>
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis  wrote:
>
>> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
>> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
>> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
>> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
>> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
>> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
>> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>>
>> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
>> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
>> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search,
>> etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write
>> db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
>> database types.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> [0]
>> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
>> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>>
>> David
>> ___
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Daniel Alley]

One more note:  Not all MySQL / MariaDB installations support transactions,
which we use heavily (and rely on?)

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/db/transactions/#transactions-in-mysql

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 3:55 PM David Davis  wrote:

> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
> emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
> utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
> dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
> recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
>
> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we already
> don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing several
> Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search, etc.
> Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write db
> specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
> database types.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> [0]
> https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
>  https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
> [1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/
>
> David
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Re: [Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[Bryan Kearney]

On 7/11/19 3:54 PM, David Davis wrote:
> Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
> mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
> search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to
> store emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it
> uses 3-byte utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be
> better served by dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with
> Postgresql only. Gitlab recently came to a similar conclusion[1].
> 
> I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we
> already don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing
> several Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text
> search, etc. Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have
> to write db specific code in some places or have plugins that only work
> with certain database types.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 

Lets jsut please not expose any DB specific syntax into the API.

In general, I am +1 for a single DB.

-- bk




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[Pulp-dev] Database support in Pulp 3

[David Davis]

Two plugins are currently running into issues trying to support
mariadb/mysql. The pulp_ansible plugin is interested in adding full text
search and JSONFields. Meanwhile, the pulp_python plugin is trying to store
emojis in text which mariadb/mysql doesn't handle well since it uses 3-byte
utf-8 by default[0]. Given such cases, I wonder if we'd be better served by
dropping mariadb/mysql support and going with Postgresql only. Gitlab
recently came to a similar conclusion[1].

I personally am hesitant to give up being database agnostic but we already
don't support sqlite. Also, I see some advantages like utilizing several
Postgresql-only features like extra field types, full text search, etc.
Also, supporting multiple databases means we'll likely have to write db
specific code in some places or have plugins that only work with certain
database types.

Thoughts?

[0]
https://medium.com/@adamhooper/in-mysql-never-use-utf8-use-utf8mb4-11761243e434
 https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18392
[1] https://about.gitlab.com/2019/06/27/removing-mysql-support/

David
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