Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
Op 16-5-2011 8:49, David Henningsson schreef: On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions (i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC). According to: http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode What is wrong with system mode? Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop, then you are doing it the wrong way. What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems? Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat. Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though. Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on which display. ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
On 16.05.2011 08:49, David Henningsson wrote: On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions (i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC). According to: http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode What is wrong with system mode? Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop, then you are doing it the wrong way. What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems? Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat. Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though. I only have one sound card in the PC. It works fine when I start PulseAudio in the system mode, but according to documentation, this is unsupported, strongly discouraged and should only be used in some embedded setups. So I'd like to do it the right way - unfortunately, PulseAudio documentation does not explain how to setup PulseAudio with multiseat. If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card; the second one gets Dummy Output. -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://wpkg.org ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
On 16.05.2011 10:43, duportail wrote: Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on which display. I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts wouldn't help much? -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://wpkg.org ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
'Twas brillig, and Tomasz Chmielewski at 16/05/11 09:49 did gyre and gimble: On 16.05.2011 08:49, David Henningsson wrote: On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions (i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC). According to: http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode What is wrong with system mode? Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop, then you are doing it the wrong way. What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems? Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat. Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though. I only have one sound card in the PC. It works fine when I start PulseAudio in the system mode, but according to documentation, this is unsupported, strongly discouraged and should only be used in some embedded setups. So I'd like to do it the right way - unfortunately, PulseAudio documentation does not explain how to setup PulseAudio with multiseat. Well in this evironment, I'd say that if you only have one card to be shared between the seats, then system wide mode is likely the right option. It's not nice generally because: 1. We cannot use SHM for memory transfer leading to more memcpy overhead. 2. One user can spy on the other user monitor their VOIP streams etc. 3. Module loading is disabled (for security) by default on system wide which IIRC affects hotplug etc. 4. There are some issues with Bluetooth permissions for BT devices (it can be configured of course but finding it is tricky - I've got mails flagged in my inbox to add this documentation at some point). And we don't test it particularly heavily, but all in all it should work fine (assuming you write your own init script and/or your distro does that for you). If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card; the second one gets Dummy Output. Yeah, that's either because the second user does not have permission to access the device (due to ConsoleKit ACLs only the active (ck-list-sessions) user should get the ACL, but this could actually cover both users in your setup) or due to the fact that the card can only be opened once. Normally what you'd due is define some kind of udev magic that defines seats and thus contextually assigns certain USB ports and/or h/w to a given seat. Then when a user (any user - it's not tied to the seat) logs in, console-kit and udev both apply the right ACLs and PA can start and only show the relevant sound cards to the relevant seats. This is how it should work in an ideal world - everyone getting their own stuff. But in a situation where you accept all the problems listed above (things like security likely don't apply when people know each other :)) then system wide is fine. Hope that helps :) Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
On 16.05.2011 11:37, Colin Guthrie wrote: Well in this evironment, I'd say that if you only have one card to be shared between the seats, then system wide mode is likely the right option. It's not nice generally because: 2. One user can spy on the other user monitor their VOIP streams etc. Since all users hear the same audio from loudspeakers, it's not a concern :) And we don't test it particularly heavily, but all in all it should work fine (assuming you write your own init script and/or your distro does that for you). Unfortunately, it does not work fine, and was a reason why I'm investigating running PulseAudio per-user. When I run it in system mode, it crashes (or exits? not sure). It's not something what happens very often - once every 3 days perhaps. But annoying (no music anymore, normal user can't start PA in system mode etc.). Since the documentation said I'm not likely to get any help when asking for system mode issues, I though I'm really doing something wrong and I should use it per-user. If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card; the second one gets Dummy Output. Yeah, that's either because the second user does not have permission to access the device (due to ConsoleKit ACLs only the active (ck-list-sessions) user should get the ACL, but this could actually cover both users in your setup) or due to the fact that the card can only be opened once. Normally what you'd due is define some kind of udev magic that defines seats and thus contextually assigns certain USB ports and/or h/w to a given seat. Then when a user (any user - it's not tied to the seat) logs in, console-kit and udev both apply the right ACLs and PA can start and only show the relevant sound cards to the relevant seats. This is how it should work in an ideal world - everyone getting their own stuff. But in a situation where you accept all the problems listed above (things like security likely don't apply when people know each other :)) then system wide is fine. Hope that helps :) Well, the theory is nice :) but from user's perspective, sound with multiseat became unreliable when distributions migrated to PulseAudio (not that the life of a multiseat user was ever easy, but still, it's yet one thing which discourages multiseat). Perhaps I'll try to see why PA crashes/exits when used by multiple users in the system mode, report it to the mailing list, and hope won't get too many system mode is unsupported, go away replies ;) -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://wpkg.org ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
Dnia 2011-05-16, pon o godzinie 10:51 +0200, Tomasz Chmielewski pisze: I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts wouldn't help much? No, for proper multiseat you need a card per user (note that might be USB speakers, too). I believe when you use a USB hub at each seat, you could have the speakers bound to seats using the hubs' bus-ids or similar. Cheers -- Michał Sawicz mic...@sawicz.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
Op 16-5-2011 10:51, Tomasz Chmielewski schreef: On 16.05.2011 10:43, duportail wrote: Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on which display. I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts wouldn't help much? I use a usb soundcard per display.I log in at each display to detect the sink of the usb soundcard that is for that display. Than a script to set the default sink per display, this script is called in the users' autostart function. If the user logs in, the script finds out what $DISPLAY and sets the default sink. The .pulse dir should be empty. I did some work regarding udev rules and consolekit stuff, but it is so difficult to re-configure remote systems if somehow a hub is broken or replaced on the computer. ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
[pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?
Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions (i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC). According to: http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode What is wrong with system mode? Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop, then you are doing it the wrong way. What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems? -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://wpkg.org ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio -system-wide daemon
The sound starts always on the user he's first start. example, user 3 log first on and then user 2 . The sound goes to the output describe for user 3 also for user 2 the sound goes to speakers 3. When I restart the computer en first log user 2 in and then user 3 , the sound goes to speaker 2 also for user 3 - speaker 2. When I changed with the aplet, it works fine. but on restart it's changed to the user that have first log-in. Can I change the output in console ? I can change it in gnome by the aplet (padevchooser). I think it must be possible in console. When I can change the output in console, I can make a script to automatic run at logon in gnome and me problem is solved. I have see in the manual off padevchooser that you can't give options to the aplet. Is there another tool to select the default sink ? Bart ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio -system-wide daemon
Michal Sawicz schreef: Dnia 2008-07-30, śro o godzinie 15:54 +0200, Lennart Poettering pisze: I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here. I wanted to tell him the same thing, but refrained from it... 'Cause on the other hand it seems to be the only way - having all the users able to send audio to all the cards. I think also that's the only way, when you start pulseaudio 4 times it will be verry strange ? If the users don't, for example, use the same seats every time, it will be difficult to get the correct card to send to. On the other hand the system wide approach would let the users 'spam' each other's speakers... Yeah but that's not a problem, they can do something like this but they don't. The only thing that I will have is at start the right output to the right screen. ( user1 will always be to screen 1, user2 to screen2 ...) A per-user daemon would mean that the cards would be blocked whenever one of the users use it, no? This way it would be possible for one user to block all the cards... And yeah, I don't have a clear idea on how to do it, either. When I try this whit per-user daemon, how can I do this ? I found this on google : http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives/128-Multiseat-Sound.html http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/97-Artsy-Tuesday-Pulseaudio-Next-generation-audio-server.html That's also with the system-wide daemon, but I don't know how can I solve the other problem : cut The sound starts always on the user he's first start. example, user 3 log first on and then user 2 . The sound goes to the output describe for user 3 also for user 2 the sound goes to speakers 3. When I restart the computer en first log user 2 in and then user 3 , the sound goes to speaker 2 also for user 3 - speaker 2. When I changed with the aplet, it works fine. but on restart it's changed to the user that have first log-in. /cut Gtrz, Bart ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
[pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
Hello, I try to make my multiseatcomputer 4 seats working with sound. But I don't have any result, the sound comes always out of the same output on every screen. ( on the system I have 1 hardware soundcard on the mainboard and 3 usb sound-cards) I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default output, but it stil doesn't work. I have also done the perfect setup, but the flashplayer crash not sometime, but always with the flashplayer 10 beta, with the version 9 it works, but not on the right sound-output. What did I wron ? When you need logs or anything say it. My linux distro is ubuntu hardy. Tank you for any help. Muylle Bart ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
Dnia 2008-07-30, śro o godzinie 15:54 +0200, Lennart Poettering pisze: I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here. I wanted to tell him the same thing, but refrained from it... 'Cause on the other hand it seems to be the only way - having all the users able to send audio to all the cards. If the users don't, for example, use the same seats every time, it will be difficult to get the correct card to send to. On the other hand the system wide approach would let the users 'spam' each other's speakers... A per-user daemon would mean that the cards would be blocked whenever one of the users use it, no? This way it would be possible for one user to block all the cards... And yeah, I don't have a clear idea on how to do it, either. I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete. You mean padevchooser? -- Michal Sawicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: To jest część wiadomości podpisana cyfrowo smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 03:54:48PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete. Whuh oh, really? I use it all the time. What's replaced it? (I have a laptop with internal speakers, but when in my office I've got a usb sound system I want it outputting to instead, so I use padevchooser to tell it which hal-discovered device to use at what time...) -- Jeremy Nickurak signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
On Wed, 30.07.08 10:21, Jeremy Nickurak ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 03:54:48PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete. Whuh oh, really? I use it all the time. What's replaced it? (I have a laptop with internal speakers, but when in my office I've got a usb sound system I want it outputting to instead, so I use padevchooser to tell it which hal-discovered device to use at what time...) padevchooser relies on zeroconf for selecting devices. this is lame. It also has all kind of bugs. There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between devices. Lennart -- Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553 http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 07:01:14PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between devices. Harder to get into a panel for quick access. Is there a command-line version of pavucontrol that could be used via scripts/launchers? -- Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] =- signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio
On Wed, 30.07.08 11:09, Jeremy Nickurak ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 07:01:14PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between devices. Harder to get into a panel for quick access. Is there a command-line version of pavucontrol that could be used via scripts/launchers? You can use pactl and pacmd. padevchooser is not unfixable. It's just that someone should sit down and get rid of the braindamage that is in there. Patches welcome. Lennart -- Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553 http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
