Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
On Sat, 02.02.08 09:41, Rémi Cardona ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: As Skype is a proprietary application, I think it'd be a good thing if they did their PA support like Macromedia/Adobe did for flash, using libflashsupport. Uh. It's not Adobe who did the PA support, it was actually -- me! Also, libflashsupport is not exactly at the zenith auf API design or implementation. Dunno if it is useful as a positive example. Lennart -- Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553 http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
On Sat, 02.02.08 01:55, Tanu Kaskinen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Happened tonight on #pulseaudio: 00:41 Q-FUNK guys, it appears that Skype might be willing to become good audiozens and stop accessing ALSA directly. 00:41 Q-FUNK however, they would need help to understand what's required for stripping ALSA and OSS support out of Skype and replacing it with native PulseAudio support. 00:41 Q-FUNK any volunteer I could put them in touch with? snip content=[no volunteers, some discussion about this list requiring subscription] / 01:30 Q-FUNK well, anyhow, if anybody is willing to post the above to the list on my behalf, I can put whoever is willing to explain to them how it's done in touch with my insider. 01:31 Q-FUNK there was initial resistance, followed by attempts to dodge the issue by pointing me to various workarounds, and only now, tonight, admittance that porting to PA might be the way to go. 01:32 Q-FUNK we need to follow-up now, while they're still convinced that it's worth doing. Interested people should contact Martin-Éric Racine. Irc is preferred, he's always on Freenode and IRCnet with nick Q-FUNK. My take on this in case some of you don't read my blog anyway (how dare you not to?!?! ;-)): http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/lca2008.html (scroll down to Rumors) Lennart -- Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553 http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
On Wed, 13.02.08 14:26, Rémi Cardona ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also, libflashsupport is not exactly at the zenith auf API design or implementation. Dunno if it is useful as a positive example. You are a much better judge for this sort of things than most of us :) But even if the implementation of libflashsupport sucks, it at least gives the community the opportunity to fix or adapt proprietary software to our new APIs. And _that_ is a nice idea which should be encouraged. I really doubt that this can ever work properly. libflashsupport is not really that well documented and full of races. It is kind of guesswork to write a driver that works more often than it does not. There are still a couple of issues with the PA backend for Flash, but for most I fear I cannot really fix them due to the closed-source nature of the primary user. We really don't need yet another bad, incomplete, undocumented API design with just a single closed-source consumer. The ALSA API as an abstraction layer is still much better then this. Lennart -- Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553 http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
Tanu Kaskinen a écrit : Happened tonight on #pulseaudio: 00:41 Q-FUNK guys, it appears that Skype might be willing to become good audiozens and stop accessing ALSA directly. 00:41 Q-FUNK however, they would need help to understand what's required for stripping ALSA and OSS support out of Skype and replacing it with native PulseAudio support. My 2 Euro cents on this : As Skype is a proprietary application, I think it'd be a good thing if they did their PA support like Macromedia/Adobe did for flash, using libflashsupport. Cons : - it's a tiny additional amount of work ... But, there are major Pros : - you can target other APIs/OS than PA (phonon, alsa, oss, ...) for whatever reason (although I'm not advocating it) - _more_importantly_ should the PA API/ABI change, the community will be able to update that library without the need for Skype to release a new version Like Macromedia, they could release the initial library with their current alsa code, and let the community add PA support on its own, working in an open and sustainable way. Cheers, Rémi ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
Rémi Cardona wrote: Tanu Kaskinen a écrit : Happened tonight on #pulseaudio: 00:41 Q-FUNK guys, it appears that Skype might be willing to become good audiozens and stop accessing ALSA directly. 00:41 Q-FUNK however, they would need help to understand what's required for stripping ALSA and OSS support out of Skype and replacing it with native PulseAudio support. My 2 Euro cents on this : As Skype is a proprietary application, I think it'd be a good thing if they did their PA support like Macromedia/Adobe did for flash, using libflashsupport. Cons : - it's a tiny additional amount of work ... But, there are major Pros : - you can target other APIs/OS than PA (phonon, alsa, oss, ...) for whatever reason (although I'm not advocating it) - _more_importantly_ should the PA API/ABI change, the community will be able to update that library without the need for Skype to release a new version Like Macromedia, they could release the initial library with their current alsa code, and let the community add PA support on its own, working in an open and sustainable way. Big +1 on this. Making it a community project would seriously help their Linux users and as a result their reputation (Skype's) would increase. I'd also be wary of removing Alsa support completely. Perhaps just accessing alsa in a way that doesn't break the pulse alsa plugin would be a good start, then they can work on adding a libflashsupport type interface. The problem that Skype has that Flash doesn't is support for multiple devices so their extension plugin may have to be slightly cleverer in that respect (although the pulse plugin would just have to have a different stream name for ringing and call and you can leave it up to pulse config to configure differetn devices etc.) Col ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 17:38 +0100, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: On Sat, 2008-02-02 13:01:34 +, Colin Guthrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rémi Cardona wrote: As Skype is a proprietary application, I think it'd be a good thing if they did their PA support like Macromedia/Adobe did for flash, using libflashsupport. [...] Big +1 on this. Making it a community project would seriously help their Linux users and as a result their reputation (Skype's) would increase. Where's the actual pro for Skype? I'm somewhat happy with Ekiga... Though it doesn't have direct support for PA, ALSA default works and placing pulse redirection into asound.conf does the trick. Personally, in my case, 1) ratio of acquaintances on Skype as opposed to some Ekiga-supported network/protocol, and 2) (here, I have to be honest) hardware works more on average with Skype on both Linux and Windows. I have to add that the Skype client is just beautiful and completely written. The audio event clips are well-done, the Skype directory services are well-polished. Skype-to-phone has a nice web interface for replenishing credits, plenty of Skype commercial offerings. Other than the fact that it's a closed-source app, there are actually a ton of reasons to use it. And I haven't looked at Ekiga's source code recently so in my case, it boils down to how well they're supported by people other than myself ... and they (Skype people) seem to be doing a good job recently. -- Richi Plana ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Help wanted for porting Skype to use PulseAudio
On Sat, 2008-02-02 10:03:36 -0700, Richi Plana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 17:38 +0100, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: On Sat, 2008-02-02 13:01:34 +, Colin Guthrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rémi Cardona wrote: As Skype is a proprietary application, I think it'd be a good thing if they did their PA support like Macromedia/Adobe did for flash, using libflashsupport. [...] Big +1 on this. Making it a community project would seriously help their Linux users and as a result their reputation (Skype's) would increase. Where's the actual pro for Skype? I'm somewhat happy with Ekiga... Though it doesn't have direct support for PA, ALSA default works and placing pulse redirection into asound.conf does the trick. Personally, in my case, 1) ratio of acquaintances on Skype as opposed to some Ekiga-supported network/protocol, and 2) (here, I have to be Ekiga is a SIP/H.323 client. So only standardized, interoperable network protocols, opposed to the proprietary stuff Skype does... Other than the fact that it's a closed-source app, there are actually a ton of reasons to use it. And I haven't looked at Ekiga's source code recently so in my case, it boils down to how well they're supported by people other than myself ... and they (Skype people) seem to be doing a good job recently. They started with a completely wrong approach IMHO. And Ekiga (or any other SIP client) is as easy to install, has voice and video support and is interoperable, in contrast to Skype. MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Friends are relatives you make for yourself. the second : signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
