Re: [Python-3000] Kill GIL? - to PEP 3099?

2006-09-21 Thread Michel Pelletier
> Fredrik Lundh wrote: > > > no need to wait for Guido for this: adding library support for shared- > > memory dictionaries/lists is a no-brainer. if you have experience in > > this field, start hacking. I'll take care of the rest ;-) > > and you don't need to wait for Python 3000 either, o

Re: [Python-3000] Delayed reference counting idea

2006-09-21 Thread Greg Ewing
Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote: > It's not hard realtime. There are no strict guarantees, and a single > large object is processed in whole. I know. What I mean to say, I think, is can it be designed so that there cannot be any pauses longer than there would have been if freeing had been perform

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread David Hopwood
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > David Hopwood wrote: > >>For example, "ö" can be represented either as the precomposed character >>U+00F6, >>or as "o" followed by a combining diaeresis (U+006F U+0308). > > normalization is a good thing, though: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/ > > (it would

Re: [Python-3000] Small Py3k task: fix modulefinder.py

2006-09-21 Thread Thomas Heller
Guido van Rossum schrieb: > Is anyone familiar enough with modulefinder.py to fix its breakage in > Py3k? It chokes in a nasty way (exceeding the recursion limit) on the > relative import syntax. I suspect this is also a problem for 2.5, when > people use that syntax; hence the cross-post. There's

Re: [Python-3000] Removing __del__

2006-09-21 Thread Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
"Giovanni Bajo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What if the "self" passed to __del__ was instead a weakref.proxy, > or a similar wrapper object which does not give you access to the > object itself but lets you access its attributes? weakref.proxy will find the object already dead. I doubt this ca

Re: [Python-3000] Removing __del__

2006-09-21 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Nick Coghlan wrote: >> Unfortunately you're right... this is all too simple. The existing >> mechanism doesn't have a problem with __del__ methods that do not >> participate in loops. For those that DO participate in loops I >> think it's perfectly plausible for your __del__ to receive a >> refere

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Gábor Farkas
Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 9/20/06, Michael Chermside <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I wrote: > msg = u'The ancient greeks used the letter "\U00010143" for the number 5.' > msg[35:-18] >> u'"\U00010143"' > greek_five = msg[36:-19] > len(greek_five) >> 2 >> >> >> After posting, I re

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Giovanni Bajo wrote: > Is there a design document explaining the rationale of unicode type, the > status quo? Guido isn't complaining about people who don't understand the rationale behind the design, he's complaining about people who HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT THE CURRENT DESIGN before spouting o

Re: [Python-3000] Removing __del__

2006-09-21 Thread Nick Coghlan
Michael Chermside wrote: > Nick Coghlan writes: >[...proposes revision of __del__ rather than removal...] >> The only way for __del__ to receive a reference to self is if the >> finalizer argument had a reference to it - but that would mean the >> object itself was not >> collectable, so __de

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Guido van Rossum wrote: > I was specifically reacting to your use of the phrasing "I'm very > tempted to support UTF-8"; this wording suggests that it would be your > choice to make. I could have pointed out the obvious (that equating > the difficulty of using UTF-8 with that of using UTF-16 doesn

Re: [Python-3000] Removing __del__

2006-09-21 Thread Nick Coghlan
Second attempt, this time to the right list :) Jim Jewett wrote: > On 9/20/06, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> # Create a class with the same instance attributes >> # as the original >> class attr_holder(object): >> pass >>

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
David Hopwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > People do need to realize that *all* Unicode encodings are > variable-length, in the sense that abstract characters can be > represented by multiple code points. Unicode algorithms for case mapping, word splitting, collation etc. are generally defined i

Re: [Python-3000] Delayed reference counting idea

2006-09-21 Thread Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Incremental GC (e.g. in OCaml) has short pauses. It doesn't scan all >> memory at once, but distributes the work among GC cycles. > > Can it be made to guarantee that no pause will > be longer than some small amount, such as 20ms? It's not hard realtime.

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Fredrik Lundh
David Hopwood wrote: > For example, "ö" can be represented either as the precomposed character > U+00F6, > or as "o" followed by a combining diaeresis (U+006F U+0308). normalization is a good thing, though: http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/ (it would probably be a good idea to turn unico

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Guido van Rossum wrote: > based on a thorough lack of understanding of the status quo no less. that's, unfortunately, a bit too common on this list. (as the author of Python's Unicode type and cElementTree, I especially like arguments along the lines of "using separate buffers to hold the actu

Re: [Python-3000] How will unicode get used?

2006-09-21 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Adam Olsen wrote: > Wow, you really did mean code units. In that case I'm very tempted to > support UTF-8, with byte indexing (which is what code units are in its > case). It's ugly, but it technically works fine, and it's the de > facto standard on Linux. No more ugly than UTF-16 code units IM