oth :-) way.
I trust you will announce this in python-list and python-announce-list if
you haven't already?
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Kudos to the Python 3.0 folks from a poster on comp.lang.python. And it's
not even been released yet...
Cheers,
Skip
--- Begin Message ---
Hello list,
since I've read so much about Python 3 and ran into some trouble which
was supposed to be fixed with 3k, I yesterday came around
processing.py API compatible with processing 0.52?
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started! Are you going to
Christian> commit your work to the Google Code repository anytime soon?
I checked in the contents of my multiprocessing.tar file and opened issues
#1 and #2.
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e=$HOME/tmp/multiprocessing.tar --exclude=.svn
--exclude='*.pyc'
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uld help. See what fails and then see what fixes
correspond to fixing those failing tests.
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u can admit project developers without giving
them the keys to the kingdom so-to-speak.
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Jesse> Do we want to start a google code project for this given all
Jesse> three of us are interested in this? :)
Maybe the svn repo could grow a backports sibling of sandbox.
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Christian> I like to make as much code of the trunk version compatible
Christian> with 2.5 and 2.4 as possible. Let's see how far we can get
Christian> with a bunch of macros and #ifdefs.
I'll follow your lead. ;-)
Skip
> I had been approached to do the exact same thing, are you trying to
> back port the trunk version (2.6) or py3000?
I'm trying to backport from 2.6. It appears that the buffer stuff is
completely
new though (backported from Python 3.0).
S
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ears to be much more
robust than the 0.52 third-party release.)
Thanks,
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osiah> the items, keys and values should return results in the same
Josiah> order."
Josiah> So... key ordered, or rowid ordered?
I could care less, just so it's predictable. Ordering by rowid is probably
more efficient.
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dering of keys, values and items is made. Can we
settle on something like this and spell it out explicitly somewhere in the
3.0 docs?
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to be the place where we remove as many warts as possible. It
would also be nice to tighten up the documentation in these somewhat murky
areas.
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#x27;m of
the opinion it should apply more broadly. Others are not of that opinion.
Should the documentation be more explicit about this?
Comments?
Thx,
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vs optparse) even if the two versions are
functionally identical. In this case, my hope is that dbm.sqlite will
eventually move into the distributed dbm package. If so, it would be nice
if the move was transparent.
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t dbm_sqlite
mal> # Install dbm_sqlite into the dbm package
mal> sys.modules['dbm.sqlite'] = dbm_sqlite
mal> dbm.sqlite = dbm_sqlite
I was hoping to make migration from an external module in test to a module
distributed with Python (if it gets
7;s clear it has
some shortcomings.
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aps I should have
marked it as a release blocker, but I don't think that's my call.
Thx,
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_conn.commit()
I think you need the commits and have to suffer with the speed penalty.
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t of 3: 270 msec per loop
* Get rid of cursors, calling the connection's execute method instead:
1000 loops, best of 3: 198 usec per loop
100 loops, best of 3: 2.26 msec per loop
Hmmm... Should cursors be used? What benefit are they? Without them is
the sqlit
nlinear in the ndbm code, probably the
underlying library, but it may be worth checking the wrapper quickly.
Platform is Mac OSX 10.5.4 on a MacBook Pro.
Now to dig into the abysmal sqlite performance.
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rt pkgutil
__path__ = pkgutil.extend_path(__path__, __name__)
I'm wondering if all the core packages in 3.x should include the above in
their __init__.py files.
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parators in logging configuration files.
Modified:
python/trunk/Lib/logging/config.py
python/trunk/Lib/test/test_logging.py
python/trunk/Misc/NEWS
I noticed because someone else (Brett?) questioned the apparent lack of
review.
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Barry> In addition, Mark reported in IRC that there are some regressions
Barry> in the logging module.
Vinay apparently checked in some changes to the logging module with no
review. In the absence of obvious bug fixes there that should probably be
reverted.
ither bsddb185 or bsddb3) built for the Windows
distributions? Without something there's no guarantee that anydbm or shelve
will work out of the box. As Raymond pointed out, dumbdbm would be a poor
choice as the default dict-on-disk module.
Skip
_
>From issue3769:
Skip> Remind me why we want to get rid of bsddb?
Benjamin> The reasons are enumerated in PEP 3108.
Not much justification and no references to outside discussion for such a
heavily used package which has been part of Python for a long time in one
form or an
I'm guessing we should be in the habit of zapping our Python 3.0
installations before executing "make (alt)?install", correct? Looking at my
local Py3k install I see both urllib the package and urllib the module:
% find /Users/skip/local/lib/python3.0 -name 'urllib*&#x
ts.
I suspect I might qualify as an old fart today. If I qualify I suspect Tim
and Barry aren't too far behind. Is the time machine running in reverse???
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intention to make the duration of the code freeze so short (a few minutes or
hours) that it's not worth the effort to make this distinction?
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minimum of noise.
I don't mind the system clearly telling me about code I've installed.
That's a lot different than Mozilla hiding it's internal stuff in
~/.mozilla.
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ly non-obvious. Would you prefer
/usr/.local to /usr/local? If not, then why prefer ~/.local to ~/local?
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a Dutch city and
(maybe?) a Dutch architect by that name.
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. It gives you the flexibility needed to handle a number of
different scenarios.
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>> - for experienced users (Barry, skip, etc) that want ~/.local to be
>> more easily accessible, creating a visible ~/local symlink is an
>> utterly trivial exercise.
Barry> Hey Nick, I agree with everything above, except that I'd probably
Nick> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fred> If user-local package installs went to ~/ by default ... with a
Fred> way to set an alternate "prefix" instead of ~/ using a distutils
Fred> configuration setting, I'd be happy enough.
Skip> +1 from me.
Fred> If user-local package installs went to ~/ by default ... with a
Fred> way to set an alternate "prefix" instead of ~/ using a distutils
Fred> configuration setting, I'd be happy enough.
+1 from me.
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True, I'm not implying anything should be broken, just that much of the work
can be mechanical conversion. Also, for some of us, % formatting will
remain the "first way" of generating formatted string output as long as it
exists in the language.
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that kind of hard to believe (that it should be terribly difficult to
write a fixer, at least given a % operator with a string literal LHS and
either a tuple or dict RHS or a call to locals() or globals()).
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Is there a 2-to-3 fixer for % format? I scanned the fixes directly quickly
but didn't see anything obvious.
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Benjamin> Once you've pushed the branches, is there a way to remove them?
Related question: is there a way to view the various branches in a non-local
repository?
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Neal> Anything that connects to a remote host is definitely flaky.
Would it maybe help to set up a dedicated host (or virtual host) to serve as
the sole target of all network tests?
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shows 10 pending.
It looks like its last run was about 18 hours ago. You would think by now
it would have been able to make another run. It pings fine.
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look at the red buildbots. ;-)
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>> Did I misread the directions or do I really need the --create-prefix
>> arg?
Barry> You do, the first time you push a user branch because users/skip
Barry> doesn't exist yet. It's mentioned in the docs, but it's pretty
Barry> easy
Barry> All the gory details are documented here:
Barry> http://www.python.org/dev/bazaar
Thanks. I checked out, made a branch named test3, changed Makefile.pre.in
to have a test3 target, checked it in, then tried to push it:
% pwd
/Users/skip/src/python-bzr/test3
(Diverting from python-3000 to spambayes-dev.)
Skip> After the next SpamBayes release I plan to branch the code and
Skip> work on porting it to Python 3.0, mostly as an experiment in
Skip> porting code from Python 2.x to 3.x whose results I can feed back
Skip> t
ally? I'm not aware of any.
Nothing specifically. I was simply under the impression that the conversion
couldn't be 100% from my reading, perhaps incorrectly, of the mailing list.
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probably represent data from single-column
files, not double-column files with '8' or 'f' as the delimiter.
I would be happy to get rid of it in 3.0, but I'm also aware that some
people use it. I'd like feedback from the Python communi
Eric> The proposed 3to2 also might be a way out.
Will be interesting to see how the round-trip code compares to the original.
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o be some
incompatibilities which aren't covered by -3 or 2to3? Those will require
manual code changes which aren't 2.x compatible.
I view this mostly as an exercise to provide feedback to the greater Python
community, not necessarily a straight-line path to 3.x support in
Spam
other issues. Should I feed the problems I discover here back to the
community in hopes either -3 or 2to3 can be enhanced?
Then what?
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uld prefer it if it raised a
TypeError if I tried to encode something other than a string as a dictionary
key.
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in that tracker so they can either spend more time with their families
or work on other things that need doing.
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ese saved searches public. I suspect you could
define one or more saved public searches which correspond to desired hot
lists.
Aside: Today's my last day here. I'd like to say hi sometime today. Free
for lunch? Maybe this would be a good lunchtime discussion.
Skip
_
to datetime today. Might that have caused your
problems with test_datetime? Is your merge checked in so I can have a look?
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to make
what you're installing "right now" be considered "python".
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yikes!
skip> If, in the future, the install target does what the altinstall target
does
skip> today, what should the target that does what the install target does
today?
skip> (???, install) = (install, altinstall)
Let me try this again. If, in the future, the insta
target does
today, what should the target that does what the install target does today?
(???, install) = (install, altinstall)
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ython 3.0."
Of course the same holds true for people who install multiple minor
revisions of Python 2.x. The README files on both trunk and the py3k branch
need updating. If I get a chance today and nobody beats me to it I will
modify it with something like Oleg's wording.
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Barry> True, but it's just more moving parts to break, especially when I
Barry> don't really feel a u/i buys you much[*].
Barry> [*] Skip knows me as a diehard XEmacser so that statement can
Barry> pretty much define my standard answer to all such quest
lable through MacPorts, at least according to "port
search ...".
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able to reopen() an open file object, e.g.:
print(..., file=sys.stdout.reopen(encoding="utf-8")
?
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rse() is dumped shouldn't s.sort() be as well?
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A thread on the Python Mac sig got me to wondering if there is any magic in
Python 3's print function for printing Unicode. Nope, no magic:
>>> print("\xef")
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
File "/Users/skip/lo
copy.copy() migrates to builtin it should raise something other than
copy.Error as well.
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1 is. Do you mean positive and negative numbers which fit in one byte
or one long word?
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James> Not much fun for users of the PYTHONPATH env var though, eh?
PYTHONPATH3 anyone? Or maybe .pth files are sufficient. So far I've been
able to mangle my PYTHONSTARTUP file to work with both Python 2 and Python
3. That's not very sophisticated code
that they
shipped Python 2.x, and then the executable was called (I think) python2.
I no longer remember the details very well, but I wonder if there's
a lesson to be learned from that experience as we decide how to install
Python 3.0.
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uture__" facility or the #! trick you
and others mentioned, but that would only work for Python 2.6 and above.
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; exit(1)
It won't work in this case. Compilation of the module might well fail
because of Python2/Python3 syntax differences.
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Stephen> FWIW, I can tell you that Skip will get pushback from me if he
Stephen> proposes registering those extensions in XEmacs's
Stephen> auto-mode-alist. I won't absolutely veto it, but I'll
Stephen> certainly suggest to the other reviewers that this
ly obliterate the python symlink. I don't
understand what all the fuss is.
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Guido> Looking over the code base, frozensets are used rarely. So I
Guido> don't think this is warranted.
I kind of like the idea. Raymond's arguments make sense to me. Most of the
time if I bother to create a set literal it would be to use it as a
cumbersome, but I didn't worry too much about
that since a future merge to the 3.0 branch will delete them anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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ting anything. All three have long been documented as
not reliable. It's not like it should be a surprise to anyone that
if not q.qsize():
print q.qsize()
might print something besides 0. And if it is a surprise, they should
probably not be programmin
co> What do you all think?
Lambdas only support a single expression, not statements and that's not
going to change in 3.0.
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I don't have any problem with a discussion of Mercurial or Bazaar as they
relate to hosting Python's source code, but could we maybe not cloak the
discussion with a subject about the io module?
Thx,
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e io module is loaded.
Alexaandre> How would that works? The modules in Module/config.c need to
Alexaandre> linked to the main binary, no?
Assuming they aren't huge I don't see any real problem linking them into the
interpreter's binary image
ge the
tracker.
--
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Is the freeze for 3.0a2 still in place? I have a trivial docstring fix for
bytesobject.c.
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lable from the Python Package Index:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/bsddb185
Cheers,
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
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d for certain
modules?
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Am I the only person for whom test_asynchat is hanging? If it's not already
a known issue let me know and I'll try and characterize it a bit better than
"it hangs".
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Bill> I found that an SSL test was failing on 3K because of the following:
...
Bill> All of the modules in plat-mac are full of this kind of stuff.
ISTR much of the plat-mac stuff was generated by Tools/bgen. If so, that
would be the place to fix things.
as I try and figure out what methods my to-be-pickled objects need to
implement. __reduce__, __reduce_ex__, __getstate__, __setstate__, copy_reg,
__safe_for_unpickling__, __getnewargs__. Your head starts to swim after
awhile.
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Guido> So is python.el a descendant of python-mode.el, or an independent
Guido> development?
Adam> I've never seen a definitive statement but I believe it was
Adam> developed independently.
Correct.
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rt bitwise operations either, but numpy's do.
How much overlap is there between the three types? Does it make sense to
consider that canonical underlying array type now (or in the near future,
sometime before the release of 3.0 final)?
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Mark> With sorteddict you pay O(log N) for accessing, but you pay
Mark> nothing for sorting.
Pay me now or pay me later, but maintaining a sorted sequence will always
cost something.
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be something more than that. Wrapping sorted() around a
keys() or values() call is a pretty trivial operation. I didn't see that
the implementation saved anything.
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I fixed that up as well. I mentioned the automatic encode/decode for text
files there as well, though I'm not sure it needs to be mentioned in the
tutorial.
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. Presumably
in most cases you'll know the file's mode without needing to check, but
maybe binary files should also have a newlines attribute which is always the
empty set.
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d binary modes is
meaningless on Unix systems, drop me a note and I'll have a look.
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ERTICAL BAR they type 'vertical bar'. But enough wistful reminiscing. I
will shut up after one more parting shot:
Dennis-Ritchie-had-it-right-ly yr's,
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l tools do one thing well instead of a massively bloated tool
that has a swiss army knife drawer full of options.
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s is rather foreign. I understand that to a large degree if you made
the world right for us the tail would be wagging the dog.
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> Given how long strftime has been around I think %f is fine. We may
> even influence the future of the C library. :-)
Patch for datetime (py3k only at this point, no tests either) here:
http://bugs.python.org/issue1158
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Oy Year (offset from %C) in the locale's alternate
representation and using the locale's alternate
numeric symbols.
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ybe "%."? It appears that all strftime codes are one or
two letters.
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Skip> I would like to see an analog to %S which preserves fractions of a
Skip> second as the default formatting for time and datetime objects
Skip> does:
Skip> >>> print(now)
Skip> 2007-09-10 22:07:53.654774
Guido> Right. It's odd th
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