[Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread skip
In issue 3783 (http://bugs.python.org/issue3783) the question was raised about whether or not it's worthwhile making this guarantee: zip(d.keys(), d.values()) == d.items() in the face of no changes to the mapping object. At issue is whether the SQL query should force a predictable order on t

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread Eric Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In issue 3783 (http://bugs.python.org/issue3783) the question was raised about whether or not it's worthwhile making this guarantee: zip(d.keys(), d.values()) == d.items() in the face of no changes to the mapping object. At issue is whether the SQL query should for

[Python-3000] Updated release schedule for 2.6 and 3.0

2008-09-12 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 We had a lot of discussion recently about changing the release schedule and splitting Python 2.6 and 3.0. There was general consensus that this was a good idea, in order to hit our October 1 deadline for Python 2.6 final at least. There is on

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread skip
Eric> Given items(), I don't see why you'd ever need "zip(a.keys(), Eric> a.values())" to work. Eric> Antoine makes many of these same points in the issue comments. And as I pointed out there's no telling what users will do. The zip(keys,values) behavior works for dicts and has pro

Re: [Python-3000] Updated release schedule for 2.6 and 3.0

2008-09-12 Thread Edward K. Ream
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We had a lot of discussion recently about changing the release schedule and > splitting Python 2.6 and 3.0. There was general consensus that this was a > good idea, in order to hit our October 1 deadline for Python 2.6 fin

Re: [Python-3000] Updated release schedule for 2.6 and 3.0

2008-09-12 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 12, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote: On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We had a lot of discussion recently about changing the release schedule and splitting Python 2.6 and 3.0. There was gen

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
2008/9/12 skip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > In issue 3783 (http://bugs.python.org/issue3783) the question was raised > about whether or not it's worthwhile making this guarantee: > >zip(d.keys(), d.values()) == d.items() > > in the face of no changes to the mapping object. At issue is whether the >

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread skip
>> select key from dict order by key >> select value from dict order by key Guido> What's the purpose of the "order by key" clauses here? Doesn't Guido> that force the return order? Perhaps you meant to leave those Guido> out? It's simply to guarantee that the order of the el

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:13 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> select key from dict order by key >>> select value from dict order by key > >Guido> What's the purpose of the "order by key" clauses here? Doesn't >Guido> that force the return order? Perhaps you meant to leave thos

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread Josiah Carlson
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:13 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>> select key from dict order by key >>>> select value from dict order by key >> >>Guido> What's the purpose of the "order by key" clauses h

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread skip
Guido> What's the purpose of the "order by key" clauses here? Doesn't Guido> that force the return order? Perhaps you meant to leave those Guido> out? >>> >>> It's simply to guarantee that the order of the elements of values() >>> is the same as the order of the elements o

Re: [Python-3000] How much should non-dict mappings behave like dict?

2008-09-12 Thread Antoine Pitrou
> Gerhard suggested that if predictable > ordering was desired that "order by rowid" would be better. I personally don't understand what predictability brings (using a disk backend implies that you should minimize queries, so using keys() then values() is inefficient compared to using items() any