eople what that version?
In any case, I vote to get rid of iterBLAH in favor of just BLAH, and in
most cases make BLAH() return an iterator (or a view I suppose), with
explicit list(), tuple(), set() required to get various concrete containers.
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e(23))' 'for k in d: v = d[k]' 10
loops, best of 3: 4.58 usec per loop
Not as dramatic an improvement as you saw, but yes, I'm surprised that
iteritems() is faster than items(). I stand corrected.
Thx,
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itten for 2.x and
gives some space for various informational PEPs that are specific to Python
3.x.
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o overflow into 4000 :-).
Should there be some distinction between Py3k PEPs which fall under the
purview of Steven's PEP and those which contain completely new stuff and
aren't going to impact Python 2.x code?
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ll be Py3k only. I see no reason to implement them badly in 2.x at this
point only to break them incompatibly in 3.x. That was why I asked about a
distinction between PEPs.
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>> No one is forgetting about 2.x by any means. There seemed to be
>> general consensus that there will be at least a couple more 2.x
>> releases. Or maybe that was just my view and no one disagreed. :-)
Guido> It's my view too.
Are you sure it&
e plow through moderation requests in short order.
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e of the debate about adding to dictionaries:
how are duplicate keys handled? Multiple occurrences of **dict
aren't supported in Python 2.4. I suppose it probably doesn't typically
make a lot of sense, but for this it seems like it might be reasonable.
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__
Giovanni> if re.match(...):
Giovanni>x,y = re.group(1), re.group(2)
Giovanni> elif re.match(..):
Giovanni>...
Because then the re module wouldn't be thread safe.
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tch( string ):
talin>text = re_pattern.lastmatch.group( 1 )
No, it would still be thread-unsafe. The re_pattern object can be shared by
multiple threads.
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Giovanni> Can't you put the global last-match object into TLS?
What if you're not using threads?
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uot;. Please take it c.l.py, hash it out there, and if a reasonable idea
floats to the top of the soup, raise it on python-dev unless the idea is
somehow backward-incompatible and has to wait until Python 3000.
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at I think you referred to here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-July/007623.html
FYI...
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Guido> To prevent more abominations like this, let me pronounce that I
Guido> now like the single-star syntax:
Guido> def foo(a, b, *, x=1, y=2): ...
Sorry, I haven't been following this thread. What exactly does the naked
st
Guido> def foo(a, b, *, x=1, y=2): ...
skip> Sorry, I haven't been following this thread. What exactly does
skip> the naked star mean?
Sorry, should have finished reading my mail first.
S
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k of something that will actually
work. (I'm happy to live without type annotations, but that's just me.)
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:
When in doubt, a PEP will out.
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ng happening in a separate checkin so as not to
obscure the real work...
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/) looks more like
the null set to me... Actually, if Py3k is going to be Unicode only, why
not use Ø as the null set? ;-)
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Barry> x = 1, 2, 3
Barry> x = (1, 2, 3)
Barry> So let's keep the first and hijack the second to be set
Barry> constructor notation.
This is a fairly common error:
x = 1,
For that reason I prefer to always use parens for tupl
at typing Ø would be a challenge for most of us on the US side
of the pond. In my case it's
Fn-Shift-F3 / O
though I note now that my Mac supports Shift-Option-O as well. In any case,
neither is all that straightforward, and Ø does look a lot like zero in s
sted on mail.python.org.
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Bill> I think a PyGUI mailing list would be a good thing, Skip. And a
Bill> bug-tracker. And a CVS repository.
Bill> I disagree, though, about this discussion being too detailed for
Bill> this list. This is exactly the kind of discussion we need on this
Bill&g
Michael> So why not make "x % y" for floats behave exactly like it does
Michael> for integers and provide a separate operation with your
Michael> described behavior?
%% anyone?
(Skip ducks and runs...)
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Sorry for the intrusion. Checking to see if Mailman is constipated or
not...
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ge the
tracker.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
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e io module is loaded.
Alexaandre> How would that works? The modules in Module/config.c need to
Alexaandre> linked to the main binary, no?
Assuming they aren't huge I don't see any real problem linking them into the
interpreter's binary image
I don't have any problem with a discussion of Mercurial or Bazaar as they
relate to hosting Python's source code, but could we maybe not cloak the
discussion with a subject about the io module?
Thx,
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co> What do you all think?
Lambdas only support a single expression, not statements and that's not
going to change in 3.0.
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ting anything. All three have long been documented as
not reliable. It's not like it should be a surprise to anyone that
if not q.qsize():
print q.qsize()
might print something besides 0. And if it is a surprise, they should
probably not be programmin
cumbersome, but I didn't worry too much about
that since a future merge to the 3.0 branch will delete them anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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Guido> Looking over the code base, frozensets are used rarely. So I
Guido> don't think this is warranted.
I kind of like the idea. Raymond's arguments make sense to me. Most of the
time if I bother to create a set literal it would be to use it as a
ly obliterate the python symlink. I don't
understand what all the fuss is.
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Stephen> FWIW, I can tell you that Skip will get pushback from me if he
Stephen> proposes registering those extensions in XEmacs's
Stephen> auto-mode-alist. I won't absolutely veto it, but I'll
Stephen> certainly suggest to the other reviewers that this
; exit(1)
It won't work in this case. Compilation of the module might well fail
because of Python2/Python3 syntax differences.
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uture__" facility or the #! trick you
and others mentioned, but that would only work for Python 2.6 and above.
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that they
shipped Python 2.x, and then the executable was called (I think) python2.
I no longer remember the details very well, but I wonder if there's
a lesson to be learned from that experience as we decide how to install
Python 3.0.
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James> Not much fun for users of the PYTHONPATH env var though, eh?
PYTHONPATH3 anyone? Or maybe .pth files are sufficient. So far I've been
able to mangle my PYTHONSTARTUP file to work with both Python 2 and Python
3. That's not very sophisticated code
1 is. Do you mean positive and negative numbers which fit in one byte
or one long word?
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copy.copy() migrates to builtin it should raise something other than
copy.Error as well.
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A thread on the Python Mac sig got me to wondering if there is any magic in
Python 3's print function for printing Unicode. Nope, no magic:
>>> print("\xef")
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
File "/Users/skip/lo
rse() is dumped shouldn't s.sort() be as well?
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able to reopen() an open file object, e.g.:
print(..., file=sys.stdout.reopen(encoding="utf-8")
?
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lable through MacPorts, at least according to "port
search ...".
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Barry> True, but it's just more moving parts to break, especially when I
Barry> don't really feel a u/i buys you much[*].
Barry> [*] Skip knows me as a diehard XEmacser so that statement can
Barry> pretty much define my standard answer to all such quest
ython 3.0."
Of course the same holds true for people who install multiple minor
revisions of Python 2.x. The README files on both trunk and the py3k branch
need updating. If I get a chance today and nobody beats me to it I will
modify it with something like Oleg's wording.
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yikes!
skip> If, in the future, the install target does what the altinstall target
does
skip> today, what should the target that does what the install target does
today?
skip> (???, install) = (install, altinstall)
Let me try this again. If, in the future, the insta
target does
today, what should the target that does what the install target does today?
(???, install) = (install, altinstall)
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to make
what you're installing "right now" be considered "python".
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to datetime today. Might that have caused your
problems with test_datetime? Is your merge checked in so I can have a look?
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ese saved searches public. I suspect you could
define one or more saved public searches which correspond to desired hot
lists.
Aside: Today's my last day here. I'd like to say hi sometime today. Free
for lunch? Maybe this would be a good lunchtime discussion.
Skip
_
in that tracker so they can either spend more time with their families
or work on other things that need doing.
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uld prefer it if it raised a
TypeError if I tried to encode something other than a string as a dictionary
key.
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other issues. Should I feed the problems I discover here back to the
community in hopes either -3 or 2to3 can be enhanced?
Then what?
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o be some
incompatibilities which aren't covered by -3 or 2to3? Those will require
manual code changes which aren't 2.x compatible.
I view this mostly as an exercise to provide feedback to the greater Python
community, not necessarily a straight-line path to 3.x support in
Spam
Eric> The proposed 3to2 also might be a way out.
Will be interesting to see how the round-trip code compares to the original.
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probably represent data from single-column
files, not double-column files with '8' or 'f' as the delimiter.
I would be happy to get rid of it in 3.0, but I'm also aware that some
people use it. I'd like feedback from the Python communi
ally? I'm not aware of any.
Nothing specifically. I was simply under the impression that the conversion
couldn't be 100% from my reading, perhaps incorrectly, of the mailing list.
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(Diverting from python-3000 to spambayes-dev.)
Skip> After the next SpamBayes release I plan to branch the code and
Skip> work on porting it to Python 3.0, mostly as an experiment in
Skip> porting code from Python 2.x to 3.x whose results I can feed back
Skip> t
Barry> All the gory details are documented here:
Barry> http://www.python.org/dev/bazaar
Thanks. I checked out, made a branch named test3, changed Makefile.pre.in
to have a test3 target, checked it in, then tried to push it:
% pwd
/Users/skip/src/python-bzr/test3
>> Did I misread the directions or do I really need the --create-prefix
>> arg?
Barry> You do, the first time you push a user branch because users/skip
Barry> doesn't exist yet. It's mentioned in the docs, but it's pretty
Barry> easy
a
look at the red buildbots. ;-)
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shows 10 pending.
It looks like its last run was about 18 hours ago. You would think by now
it would have been able to make another run. It pings fine.
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Neal> Anything that connects to a remote host is definitely flaky.
Would it maybe help to set up a dedicated host (or virtual host) to serve as
the sole target of all network tests?
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Benjamin> Once you've pushed the branches, is there a way to remove them?
Related question: is there a way to view the various branches in a non-local
repository?
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Is there a 2-to-3 fixer for % format? I scanned the fixes directly quickly
but didn't see anything obvious.
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that kind of hard to believe (that it should be terribly difficult to
write a fixer, at least given a % operator with a string literal LHS and
either a tuple or dict RHS or a call to locals() or globals()).
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True, I'm not implying anything should be broken, just that much of the work
can be mechanical conversion. Also, for some of us, % formatting will
remain the "first way" of generating formatted string output as long as it
exists in the language.
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Fred> If user-local package installs went to ~/ by default ... with a
Fred> way to set an alternate "prefix" instead of ~/ using a distutils
Fred> configuration setting, I'd be happy enough.
+1 from me.
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Nick> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fred> If user-local package installs went to ~/ by default ... with a
Fred> way to set an alternate "prefix" instead of ~/ using a distutils
Fred> configuration setting, I'd be happy enough.
Skip> +1 from me.
>> - for experienced users (Barry, skip, etc) that want ~/.local to be
>> more easily accessible, creating a visible ~/local symlink is an
>> utterly trivial exercise.
Barry> Hey Nick, I agree with everything above, except that I'd probably
. It gives you the flexibility needed to handle a number of
different scenarios.
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a Dutch city and
(maybe?) a Dutch architect by that name.
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ly non-obvious. Would you prefer
/usr/.local to /usr/local? If not, then why prefer ~/.local to ~/local?
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minimum of noise.
I don't mind the system clearly telling me about code I've installed.
That's a lot different than Mozilla hiding it's internal stuff in
~/.mozilla.
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intention to make the duration of the code freeze so short (a few minutes or
hours) that it's not worth the effort to make this distinction?
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ts.
I suspect I might qualify as an old fart today. If I qualify I suspect Tim
and Barry aren't too far behind. Is the time machine running in reverse???
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I'm guessing we should be in the habit of zapping our Python 3.0
installations before executing "make (alt)?install", correct? Looking at my
local Py3k install I see both urllib the package and urllib the module:
% find /Users/skip/local/lib/python3.0 -name 'urllib*&#x
>From issue3769:
Skip> Remind me why we want to get rid of bsddb?
Benjamin> The reasons are enumerated in PEP 3108.
Not much justification and no references to outside discussion for such a
heavily used package which has been part of Python for a long time in one
form or an
ither bsddb185 or bsddb3) built for the Windows
distributions? Without something there's no guarantee that anydbm or shelve
will work out of the box. As Raymond pointed out, dumbdbm would be a poor
choice as the default dict-on-disk module.
Skip
_
Barry> In addition, Mark reported in IRC that there are some regressions
Barry> in the logging module.
Vinay apparently checked in some changes to the logging module with no
review. In the absence of obvious bug fixes there that should probably be
reverted.
parators in logging configuration files.
Modified:
python/trunk/Lib/logging/config.py
python/trunk/Lib/test/test_logging.py
python/trunk/Misc/NEWS
I noticed because someone else (Brett?) questioned the apparent lack of
review.
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rt pkgutil
__path__ = pkgutil.extend_path(__path__, __name__)
I'm wondering if all the core packages in 3.x should include the above in
their __init__.py files.
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nlinear in the ndbm code, probably the
underlying library, but it may be worth checking the wrapper quickly.
Platform is Mac OSX 10.5.4 on a MacBook Pro.
Now to dig into the abysmal sqlite performance.
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t of 3: 270 msec per loop
* Get rid of cursors, calling the connection's execute method instead:
1000 loops, best of 3: 198 usec per loop
100 loops, best of 3: 2.26 msec per loop
Hmmm... Should cursors be used? What benefit are they? Without them is
the sqlit
_conn.commit()
I think you need the commits and have to suffer with the speed penalty.
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aps I should have
marked it as a release blocker, but I don't think that's my call.
Thx,
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7;s clear it has
some shortcomings.
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t dbm_sqlite
mal> # Install dbm_sqlite into the dbm package
mal> sys.modules['dbm.sqlite'] = dbm_sqlite
mal> dbm.sqlite = dbm_sqlite
I was hoping to make migration from an external module in test to a module
distributed with Python (if it gets
vs optparse) even if the two versions are
functionally identical. In this case, my hope is that dbm.sqlite will
eventually move into the distributed dbm package. If so, it would be nice
if the move was transparent.
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#x27;m of
the opinion it should apply more broadly. Others are not of that opinion.
Should the documentation be more explicit about this?
Comments?
Thx,
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to be the place where we remove as many warts as possible. It
would also be nice to tighten up the documentation in these somewhat murky
areas.
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dering of keys, values and items is made. Can we
settle on something like this and spell it out explicitly somewhere in the
3.0 docs?
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osiah> the items, keys and values should return results in the same
Josiah> order."
Josiah> So... key ordered, or rowid ordered?
I could care less, just so it's predictable. Ordering by rowid is probably
more efficient.
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Christian> I like to make as much code of the trunk version compatible
Christian> with 2.5 and 2.4 as possible. Let's see how far we can get
Christian> with a bunch of macros and #ifdefs.
I'll follow your lead. ;-)
Skip
Jesse> Do we want to start a google code project for this given all
Jesse> three of us are interested in this? :)
Maybe the svn repo could grow a backports sibling of sandbox.
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u can admit project developers without giving
them the keys to the kingdom so-to-speak.
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uld help. See what fails and then see what fixes
correspond to fixing those failing tests.
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e=$HOME/tmp/multiprocessing.tar --exclude=.svn
--exclude='*.pyc'
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started! Are you going to
Christian> commit your work to the Google Code repository anytime soon?
I checked in the contents of my multiprocessing.tar file and opened issues
#1 and #2.
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