[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


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versions:  -Python 3.6

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

If I understand correctly, this is not a release blocker issue.  The most 
up-to-date documentation for which Tcl/Tk to use on macOS has been and remains:

https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

The entire https://docs.python.org/3/using/mac.html section remains woefully 
out-of-date; there are other open issues regarding it.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Current Mac installers do contain hopefully tested tcl/tk installers.  (This 
has always been true for the Windows installers.) We are not responsible if 
users use anything else with Python.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

@terry.reedy

Maybe "users are urged to install the most recent bug-fix releases" is a little 
bit misleading. As I wrote, Tcl/Tk 8.5.18 does not give crashes on macOS, when 
both 8.5.17 and 8.5.19 (bug-fix) do. Some times ago, if I remember well, the 
same thing happened 'round 8.6.3 something (there was a "bug-fix" release worse 
than the previous one). Should python.org installers provide only tested 
self-contained Tcl/Tk builds?

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I think that the resolution of this issue should be revision of at least the 
tkinter paragraph in 
https://docs.python.org/3/using/mac.html#gui-programming-on-the-mac, and I 
think at least the tkinter revision should be cherry-picked into the upcoming 
releases.  Ned, what do you want to do?

PyObjC paragraph: move to end?

Tkinter paragraph: rewrite to something like...

The standard Python GUI toolkit is tkinter, based on the cross-platform Tk 
toolkit (https://www.tcl.tk). Starting with the 64-bit installer in 3.6.6 and 
both installers in 3.7.0, an Aqua-native version of Tk is bundled the 
installer.  Users are urged to install the most recent bug-fix releases.

'Other' paragraphs:  combine into something like ...

*wxPython* and *PyQt* are other cross-platform GUI toolkits that runs natively 
on Mac OS X. See https://www.wxpython.org or 
https://riverbankcomputing.com/software/pyqt/intro.

[Does the other Qt wrapping, PySide, run natively on Mac?]

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

Yes, like in the Pythonic Tk 8.6.[:8] :), starting at version 8.6.8 (-dev, too) 
I see no crash. Tcl/Tk 8.6.8 is built by myself (the last time I checked there 
was no 8.6.8 built on ActiveState).
As for the old 8.5 series, only 8.5.18 works with the dual 32/64 bit Python(s).

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

Vlad, you previously mentioned that with Tcl/Tk 8.6.8 you also didn't see this 
issue. Have you tried building Tcl/Tk 8.6.8 yourself? When I did so everything 
worked fine.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

@taleinat

The issues appear with both Tk 8.6.[:8] and (8.5.[:18] + 8.5.[19:], just in 
case you update the docs. For 32/64 bit installers on macOS, the only version 
(built by myself or ActiveState) without crashes is 8.5.18 (on my Mac).

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

I couldn't reproduce this issue with any of the 3.7.1rc1 and 3.6.7rc1 
installers from python.org on my macOS.

This certainly seems like an issue with Tcl/Tk versions before 8.6.8.

It is unfortunate that ActiveState have still not released ActiveTcl 8.6.8; the 
latest version is 8.6.7 which does exhibit this issue.

ISTM we should update the section of the docs about GUI programming on macOS, 
which suggests using the latest version of Tcl/Tk from ActiveState:
https://docs.python.org/3/using/mac.html#gui-programming-on-the-mac

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Since this was opened, I have opened files in the editor, without incident with 
both installed 3.7.0 and 3.7.1rc1 (64 bit).  Should this still stay open?  Does 
anyony have any problems with the current release candidates?

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

I can confirm the these issues do *not* occur on my macOS setup when using 
tcl/tk 8.6.8 built from source.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

I was telling only that I've seen myself the issues with some Tcl/Tk versions. 
As I often build Tcl/Tk on macOS, I can confirm that on 8.6.8 I didn't see 
issues (those were effectively present in (ActiveState or not) Tcl 8.5.18, 
8.5.19, 8.6.6, 8.6.7. The only issue I had was an @autoreleasepool after 
several open/close of the Preferences dialog in IDLE (see the 34120 issue), 
related probably to a partial release of resources.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Kevin Walzer]

Kevin Walzer  added the comment:

The crash reported by the OP did show up at times in recent releases of Tk 
8.6.x, but a lot of work went into refactoring memory management in 8.6.8 and 
those problems do not seem present in the current release (8.6.7 is a year 
old). I'd try updating to 8.6.8 and seeing if that fixes things.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Kevin, more tk mac issues.

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nosy: +wordtech

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

The problem shows itself on macOS High Sierra in some Tk Demos, independently 
of Python's IDLE. So there is something completely different, to report to the 
Tcl/Tk community. Strangely, I didn't notice the issues on Sierra, but I have 
no Sierra Mac right now to check it again. Even in Tk 8.5.18 (ActiveState or 
self-compiled) there are issues (notably the cascade menus demo, the button 
menus demo, others to) in rendering some UI elements. Sometimes bad indexes are 
reported (sort of [lindex {A LIST} index $N] gives $N not found even when in 
range)...

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Vlad Tudorache]

Vlad Tudorache  added the comment:

I confirm the crashes. I've tried with personal builds of python 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 
with ActiveTcl and personal builds of Tcl 8.6.x, the problem does not appear 
with 8.5.18, but shows itself with 8.5.19 (strange, API changes?). I'll try to 
investigate.

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I presume then that you tested PR8603 without opening an editor (which is 
certainly possible).

10.13.6 was released in the last month.

PCBuild/build.bat -e downloads missing external dependency source code into 
externals/ and then compiles it into compatible .dlls.  This includes doing 
updates as appropriate. I presume that the source and compilation flags are the 
same as used to make a release. AFAIK, Zach Ware is mainly responsible for the 
current easy-to-use, easy-to-get-right status.

For a stripped-down reporducer, you might start with the files I attached to 
#34047.

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assignee: terry.reedy -> 
components: +macOS
nosy: +ned.deily, ronaldoussoren -gpolo

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[issue34313] IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6

[Tal Einat]

New submission from Tal Einat :

On macOS 10.13.5 (the latest available) with ActiveTcl 8.6.7 (the latest 
available), I'm building Python from latest master (to be 3.8.0).  I'm 
consistently having IDLE crash almost immediately, just by opening any file for 
editing.  The crash results in the following error:

$ root/bin/python3 -m idlelib
objc[50759]: Invalid or prematurely-freed autorelease pool 0x7fb74091f050.
[1]50759 abort  root/bin/python3 -m idlelib

In issue34120, @vtudorache reported a similar issue (also on macOS).

With Python 3.7.0 from python.org, everything works fine.

Strangely, replacing ActiveTcl with version 8.5.18.0 resolves this issue.

I'm not sure whether this is specific to IDLE; I'll try to provide a minimal 
way to reproduce.

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assignee: terry.reedy
components: IDLE, Tkinter
messages: 322888
nosy: gpolo, serhiy.storchaka, taleinat, terry.reedy, vtudorache
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE crashes with Tk-related error on macOS with ActiveTcl 8.6
versions: Python 3.8

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