[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[ABELARDO]

ABELARDO  added the comment:

Steven D'Aprano:

Yes, my fault. I will give an url where it is located.
https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/classes.html

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[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[ABELARDO]

ABELARDO  added the comment:

Sorry, I don't have any doc where "class value" / "instance value" are 
mentioned. This idea is original from me originally based on my personal 
interpretation about OOP basic concepts. But it doesn't mean I'm wrong with my 
proposal. 

When you use the following notation:
"foo.a" you are accessing to the value of that attribute. In Python, you would 
write: print(foo.a) to print the value of that attribute, being 'foo' an 
instance of the Foo class. Right.

All attributes are inheriting from a class; so, any attribute inside an 
instance is a "class attribute" but here I am not discussing this but the value 
itself.

This confusion could be caused because Python could implement a mechanism 
different than other OOP programming languages and I'm not sure if Python 
strictly follows this paradigm. 

I am a newbie in Python but not in OOP paradigm, where my discussion is 
focused. 

If Python doesn't strictly follow the OOP paradigm, you could gently delete 
this issue because we wouldn't talk about the same concept.

Otherwise, let's explain why I think the concept "class attribute" is wrong 
from my viewpoint.

IMHO, a "class attribute" doesn't exist in OOP as is. Really, a "class value" 
exists instead. A "class value" is a value (pay attention, please: not an 
attribute) shared among all instances from a class. You can do this by tagging 
an attribute as "static" (in Java and PHP, for example). The value of that 
attribute is, again, shared among all instances of that class. 

Nevertheless, when you don't declare an attribute with the tag "static" you are 
requiring the value (!) is not being shared among their instances.

It's not applied to attributes but values.

The attribute always is a class level property (all instances share this 
property still when the instances don't contain the same value for it).

Disclaimer: I'm not an English native. I made all my best to decently express 
in English but since it is not my native language I could have made typos which 
could twist my words.

Best regards.

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[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[Steven D'Aprano]

Steven D'Aprano  added the comment:

By the way, for future reports, it is much better to give the URL of the page 
and copy and paste the exact quote than to give a screen shot. Using a screen 
shot is inconvenient for us (we have to try to guess what URL you are referring 
to, there are *lots* of pages in the documentation) and discriminates against 
the visually impaired and blind, who may be using screen readers. (They 
typically do not work with images.)

Thank you.

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[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[Steven D'Aprano]

Steven D'Aprano  added the comment:

"Class attribute" and "instance attribute" are the usual terms used in the 
Python documentation and community. I have heard other terms used in other 
language communities, in particular "members" and "variables", but I've never 
come across one that uses "value". Do you mind if you tell us where you have 
seen this used?

We have 30 years of talking about class and instance attributes, we're not 
going to change now. 

Java has ClassValue:

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/ClassValue.html

and Scala talks about "value classes", but neither seem to be what you are 
talking about.

See also:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11350423/terminology-of-class-attribute-vs-member-vs-variable-vs-field

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nosy: +steven.daprano
resolution:  -> rejected
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[Dennis Sweeney]

Dennis Sweeney  added the comment:

I think the word "attribute" is preferred over "value" because "value" can mean 
just about anything, whereas, according to 
https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html?highlight=glossary , an attribute is 
specifically:

"""A value associated with an object which is referenced by name using dotted 
expressions. For example, if an object `o` has an attribute `a` it would be 
referenced as `o.a`."""

The phrase "class attribute" is used throughout the documentation to mean an 
attribute of a class. To reference the class attribute called `foo` of the 
class called `MyClass`, we write `MyClass.foo`.

Unless I misunderstand you, I don't think there is an issue.

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nosy: +Dennis Sweeney

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[issue41166] CLASS ATTRIBUTES

[ABELARDO]

New submission from ABELARDO :

Hi there,
I have encountered a possible bug inside the documentation.

In the attached picture you can see a portion of text highlighted ("Class 
attribute").

I think it's a typo since there is not "class attributes" nor "instance 
attributes" but "class value" and "instance value".

A "class value" is a value which is shared among instances and an "instance 
value" is a specific value of an attribute of an instance.

Best regards.

--
assignee: docs@python
components: Documentation
files: Captura de pantalla de 2020-06-30 08-50-39.png
messages: 372660
nosy: ABELARDOLG, docs@python
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: CLASS ATTRIBUTES
versions: Python 3.8
Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49278/Captura de pantalla de 2020-06-30 
08-50-39.png

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