[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Atsuo Ishimoto]

Changes by Atsuo Ishimoto :


--
nosy: +ishimoto

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

Brian Curtin  added the comment:

> Additionally, the current Path-adding installer handles uninstallation.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[John Ehresman]

John Ehresman  added the comment:

Does this mean that the PATH entry won't be removed on uninstall?  I can't tell 
from reading #3561, though I may have missed something.  My worries are about 
the developer who doesn't know what the PATH is and would find it difficult to 
diagnose any problems caused by the new entries on the path -- problems that 
may affect things other than python.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

Brian Curtin  added the comment:

On 2 and 4, see #3561 for that discussion. A short answer would be that we're 
consenting adults. Additionally, the current Path-adding installer handles 
uninstallation.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[John Ehresman]

John Ehresman  added the comment:

Just a few thoughts from someone who uses Windows and who'd need to change code 
for this change:

1) I don't know if waiting to 3.5 is needed.  I can make the change to look in 
the bin directory fairly quickly.

2) Is it safe to add scripts to the PATH?  I'd worry about something in there 
that's named so it clashes with a standard program such as notepad or chkdsk or 
more likely something else from another 3rd party program that is installed.

3) A python3.3.exe command should be added so that if someone installs both 3.3 
and an eventual 3.4, he or she can run both.

4) The uninstaller should remove the PATH entry if at all possible.

Another alternative is to provide a Start menu item for a "Python 3.4 Command 
Prompt" that would set up the environment that's similar to the Visual Studio 
2008 Command Prompt.

--
nosy: +jpe

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Glenn Linderman]

Glenn Linderman  added the comment:

msg156410 sounds good to me... +1

If the conversion is optional in 3.3, that would seem to solve the problem; if 
BinaryDir is added, people can use that for 3.3; if people want to use software 
that hasn't migrated yet, they choose the default path of least resistance, 
leaving things where they are but with BinaryDir pointing there.

PATH manipulations would be simpler, being a single PATH entry, so tying that 
to choosing the non-default option seems practical.

This would allow people that don't need the compatibility with installers that 
don't understand the new structure, to continue to function, gives the 
installer people a test bed if they don't get things done by the time 3.3 
ships, gives people that prefer the consistency across platform structures the 
ability to have it, as long as they don't need the intsaller... in short, one 
question at install time could allow us to have our cake and eat it too!

Clearly the launcher may need some adjustments for this, but BinaryDir should 
suffice to help it do the right thing for both types of installation.

--
nosy: +v+python

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Martin v . Löwis]

Martin v. Löwis  added the comment:

I'm still opposed to having the path manipulated by default, but Brian is 
working on a patch to edit the path with the default being off. If python.exe 
stays in the toplevel directory, it means that two entries have to be added to 
the path, making it even more messy and bloated than path editing already is. 
So I still think that it should be all in bin in the long term.

Anybody opposed to changing scripts to bin please speak up; I'm happy to change 
it for the next alpha release, and let people object here in this issue (with 
the potential of reverting the change if there is too much opposition).

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[VanL]

VanL  added the comment:

As Éric mentioned, there are two proposals here:

1. Move the python exe
2. Change 'Scripts' to 'bin'

As for #1, what about letting the location of the python binary be an install 
option:

[ ] Put python.exe into binaries directory and add to PATH?

And then make it unchecked by default in 3.3, checked by default in 3.4, and 
then remove the option for 3.5?

As for #2, I don't see a lot of resistance; the issues seem to mostly be with 
#1. Could #2 move into 3.3?

--
nosy: +VanL

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Giampaolo Rodola']

Changes by Giampaolo Rodola' :


--
nosy: +giampaolo.rodola

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Martin v . Löwis]

Martin v. Löwis  added the comment:

After more discussion, it appears that this change is too incompatible to be 
done in a single release.

Therefore, I propose a long-term change into this direction, with the actual 
change not happening until 3.5.

For the change of the python.exe location, I propose to add a key to the 
registry, say, "BinaryDir", which is added to 3.3 and later. Adding it to older 
installers is not useful, IMO, since people still need to implement a fallback 
logic. In 3.3 and 3.4, this will point to the toplevel directory, and in 3.5, 
it will point to the bin/scripts directory.

Now, for the change from scipts to bin, I don't have any good solution. 
Proposals, in particular including registry keys, are welcome. Symlinks are out 
as they require admin privileges. Testing for the presence of some directory 
might be an acceptable solution.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Martin v . Löwis]

Martin v. Löwis  added the comment:

I'm still in favor of the change, accepting any breakage that will result from 
it.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

Brian Curtin  added the comment:

A suggested solution to that was to add BinaryPath to give them the proper path.

We could potentially expose BinaryPath in older installers, just pointing at 
the same value as InstallPath. It's an installer-only change and very low (no?) 
risk, just preparing users as they move forward.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Mark Hammond]

Mark Hammond  added the comment:

Tools that use the registry will typically look up the InstallPath key and look 
for python.exe there.  They will not look in sub-directories (except some may 
look in PCBuild and PCBuild/amd64).  It is exactly those tools I'm concerned 
about.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

Brian Curtin  added the comment:

It'll break tools who just look for "C:\\Python%d%d\python.exe" % (x, y) or 
some variation, but that's not a very dependable solution. If you're using the 
registry to find actual install locations, I think you'll be alright.

What other solutions for finding python.exe would break by moving the location?

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Mark Hammond]

Mark Hammond  added the comment:

To clarify the second comment from Eric: it is actually the first of the 
proposals that I consider controversial - moving where python.exe lives 
(regardless of to where) will break 3rd party tools.  If a decision was made to 
move it anyway, then renaming "Scripts" to "bin" and installing it there makes 
sense IMO.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

Brian Curtin  added the comment:

If that thread ever comes to a conclusion, can someone summarize it here?

Also, is there a reason distutils even matters here?

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

IIUC this is about two changes:
- Moving python.exe to the scripts subdirectory instead of the top-level 
install dir
- Renaming that subdir from Scripts to bin

The first change will reduce the number of dirs to add to PATH from two to one, 
which sounds nice; the second is more controversial, as shown by the current 
python-dev discussion.

I am also not sure of the risks if we make an exception to the distutils freeze.

--
nosy: +eric.araujo, loewis, mhammond, tim.golden

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue14302] Move python.exe to bin/

[Brian Curtin]

New submission from Brian Curtin :

After talks at PyCon with several people, python.exe will live in 
C:\Python33\bin rather than C:\Python33 to come more in line with the Unix 
layout.

This will also simplify another issue with the Path option for the 3.3 
installer as well as packaging's target directory for top-level scripts (used 
to be Scripts/, will be bin/).

--
assignee: brian.curtin
components: Build, Installation, Windows
messages: 155762
nosy: brian.curtin
priority: high
severity: normal
stage: needs patch
status: open
title: Move python.exe to bin/
type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.3

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com