[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

The page is up and running, with a few folks contributing entries, so there's 
nothing further to be done here.

--
status: pending -> closed

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Ezio Melotti]

Changes by Ezio Melotti :


--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: commit review -> resolved
status: open -> pending

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Jesús Cea Avión]

Changes by Jesús Cea Avión :


--
nosy: +jcea

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

Is there any reason to keep this issue open at this point?

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset b360bad24805 by R David Murray in branch 'default':
#25194: add my entry to 'motivations'.
https://hg.python.org/devguide/rev/b360bad24805

New changeset 2d4907e5b51c by R David Murray in branch 'default':
#25194: Fix indentation in Nick's entry.
https://hg.python.org/devguide/rev/2d4907e5b51c

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

As I finalized my entry it occurred to me that in fact the PSF has expressed 
willingness to pay me for some contract work around the tracker, but I haven't 
managed to make the proposal yet.  The good news in that is that in fact I have 
a good bit of open source work filling my schedule right now...

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Offline feedback from GvR:

* the currently accepted term for folks with commit access is "core developer", 
and this page isn't the place to attempt to change that, so I've switched to 
that conventional terminology throughout the page
* the scope limitation to core developers now appears in the section heading in 
addition to the preamble text

I agree there are legitimate concerns with "commits for the sake of commits" as 
a metric, but it's just one link used to contrast what a page like this can 
provide with what automated VCS analysis can do, and reviewing and 
incorporating other people's patches at a general bug fixing level is actually 
the area where we most struggle at the moment, especially for orphan modules.

I'm going to post this updated version, and then try to encourage more folks to 
start filling in entries now that there's a better explanation of the page's 
purpose.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file41108/core-developer-motivations.diff

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

New patch attached that revises the preamble to include an explicit goals 
section that links out to the issue tracker stats page that demonstrates that 
we have a problem with a lack of core reviewer time.

Much of the rest of that section has been moved up from its former location in 
the "Limitations" section, but some of it is new (in particular, the paragraph 
specifically encouraging people to look for ways to spend work time on 
mentoring new contributors).

The preamble is already really long (and I'm definitely open to suggestions for 
making it shorter), so I *didn't* try to include an explanation of how the 
inequitable distribution of free time means that getting more paid involvement 
in core development should also help improve the diversity of the core reviewer 
list. The gist is that as more opportunities exist to pursue CPython 
development as a paid activity (even if it's only one part of a larger job), 
then that helps remove "has lots of spare time for volunteer software 
development" as a gating criterion for becoming a core reviewer.

I'll ping the folks I was talking to off list to see if they'd like to comment 
here, or otherwise provide feedback on the new draft.

--
Added file: 
http://bugs.python.org/file40914/motivations-preamble-with-goals.diff

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

One other note: I've only linked to OpenHub, and not GitHub, as I don't know 
how to get a "last 12 months" statistics link for GitHub, instead of either a 
fixed date range or the entire commit history.

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Additional notes for a revised preamble:

* it may be worth linking to the OpenHub contributor page to highlight the 
automatically generated list of active core contributors, and the fact that 
this page is designed to add the Motivations & Affiliations information that 
can't be readily extracted from existing public data sources

* a cross-link to the Experts Index for technical interests may be useful

* given the current scope limitations, it may be worth changing to "core 
developers" as the terminology, since we're not capturing other forms of 
contribution (e.g. issue triagers and user representatives in mailing list 
design discussions)

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Berker Peksag]

Berker Peksag added the comment:

> * it may be worth linking to the OpenHub contributor page to highlight the 
> automatically generated list of active core contributors

+1 but that data is a bit outdated. Perhaps the GitHub mirror can be used as a 
more up-to-date data source: 
https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2015-01-01=2016-01-01=c

> * given the current scope limitations, it may be worth changing to "core 
> developers" as the terminology, since we're not capturing other forms of 
> contribution

+1

--
nosy: +berker.peksag

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

I'm about to hop on a plane to PyCon Poland, so David, how about you just go 
ahead and add your entry? After some reflection, I've realised we probably 
don't want to be too prescriptive regarding the personal bios, and can instead 
let patterns & themes emerge as folks add their own entries.

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

Since this is new, rather than just updating the devguide I'm posting my 
proposed entry here first in case there is feedback.

One think I noticed in writing this is that the page is called "motivations", 
but because the instructions are to write the entry in the third person, it 
does not seem natural to actually talk about *why* I am motivated to 
contribute.  This may or may not be a bug :)

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40752/rdm_motivations.patch

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Additional feedback received off-list in response to the python-committers 
thread:

* the current preamble is still overly legalistic and could stand to be toned 
down (e.g. finding a friendlier word than "disclose" in a couple of places)

* the page doesn't really explain why it exists. There's hints of that in the 
"Limitations on Scope" section, but it would likely be better to have a more 
explicit "Goals of this page" section.

I'll draft an updated version of that and post it here.

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

That's a good point about the current "3rd party bio" instructions being 
counterproductive - my goal is to capture "Why do we consider core development 
a good use of our time?" moreso than "What have we done in the past?".

So perhaps switching back to the first person model I used in the second draft 
would be a better idea?

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti added the comment:

A few comments:

1) In the "Restrictions on scope" section, you could turn "Contributor 
Licensing Agreement" into a link.
2) You call this a "program" in a couple of place, and I'm not sure that's the 
right term (to me "program" sounds like an organized effort brought forward by 
the PSF rather than just a self-compiled list of names).
3) I would have kept the 2 disclosure-related cases separate from the 
availability for paid work, but I guess practicality beats purity and the 
paragraph you added to clarifies the difference does a good-enough job.
4) In the "commercial contacts" bullet point, you could clarify what kind of 
contacts are allowed (e.g. link, email address, phone numbers, company address, 
etc.).
5) Several devs already have a bio page on the wiki.  Instead of repeating it 
here, it might be easier to just add a link to that.  This makes the list 
shorter and easier to read, and allows people to write as much as they want on 
their wiki page.
6) If the bio is moved to the wiki, a more concise table-based approach might 
work better.  The table can include columns for names, affiliations, 
availability for paid work (just a check mark), link to bio, and possibly other 
links.

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

The attached "Final draft" patch is the version I plan to commit tomorrow. 
Major differences from the previous draft:

* accepted MAL's suggestion of using alphabetical order
* as RDM suggested, explained the rationale for the cases where we encourage 
people to participate
* after fighting with ReST trying to get it to let me have an indented 
paragraph following a bulleted list, I eventually hit on the idea of using the 
"topic" directive to separate entries from each other without introducing an 
ever expanding list of TOC entries on the main page
* there are now more extensive guidelines inline in the doc as a ReST comment
* three cases of "acceptable links to include" are covered: personal sites, 
commercial contact details, and crowdfunding
* questions and suggestions (including for new categories of acceptable links) 
are explicitly directed to the python-committers list

Given the useful feedback from MAL & RDM, I'll hold off on pinging 
python-committers again until this initial version of the page is live.

Does anyone else want to provide an entry for me to include in the initial 
commit? It would be good to have a couple more initial entries to help folks 
generalise from the available examples.

--
stage: patch review -> commit review
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40738/issue25194-motives.diff

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Marc-Andre Lemburg]

Marc-Andre Lemburg added the comment:

Thanks, Nick. The second version looks much better.

A few minor nits, which you may want to address:

 * Order in the section should probably be alphabetic rather than
   random time based (makes it easier to search for entries once the
   list gets longer)

 * If someone is available for paid work, should we flag this in a
   generic way or simply mention this in the descriptive text ?

 * How should contact information be added to the sections ?

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

After the "are especially encouraged" bullet list, I think you should add a 
paragraph about the motivations for that special encouragement (that you've 
previously articulated, such as colleagues being able to learn they have a 
coworker they can turn to as a resource).

Other than that it looks good to me.

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Zachary Ware]

Changes by Zachary Ware :


--
nosy: +zach.ware

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Changes by Nick Coghlan :


--
title: Register of Financial Interests for core contributors -> Opt-in 
motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

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[issue25194] Opt-in motivations & affiliations page for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

I updated the patch descriptions to indicate motives.diff is the current draft 
while still keeping the initial iteration available.

I'll ping python-committers again to give folks another chance to comment on 
the second draft, and then look to merge it into the developer guide this 
coming weekend (incorporating any further feedback received in the interim).

--

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