[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Barney Gale]

Barney Gale  added the comment:

The docs for PurePath.is_absolute() say:

> A path is considered absolute if it has both a root and (if the flavour 
> allows) a drive

This does not preclude it from having ".." segments.

PurePath.absolute() is documented as of bpo-29688 / 3.11, see: 
https://docs.python.org/3.11/library/pathlib.html#pathlib.Path.absolute

The documentation for the absolute() method is deliberately placed alongside 
resolve() for ease of comparison. Both methods make a path absolute, but 
resolve() also follows symlinks, and consequently is able to safely elide ".." 
segments.

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Brett Cannon]

Change by Brett Cannon :


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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Eryk Sun]

Eryk Sun  added the comment:

> Now a file that doesn't exist:
> >>> mike = Path("palin.jpg")
> >>> mike.resolve()
> WindowsPath('palin.jpg')

This is a bug in resolve(). It was fixed in 3.10+ by switching to 
ntpath.realpath(). I don't remember why a fix for 3.9 was never applied. Work 
on the PR may have stalled due to a minor disagreement.

> 'C:\Windows\..\Program Files' and '/usr/../bin' == relative path

No, a relative path depends on either the current working directory or, for a 
symlink target, the path of the directory that contains the symlink.

In Windows, a rooted path such as r"\spam" is a relative path because it 
depends on the drive of the current working directory. For example, if the 
current working directory is r"Z:\eggs", then r"\spam" resolves to r"Z:\spam". 
Also, a drive-relative paths such as "Z:spam" depends on the working directory 
of the given drive. Windows supports a separate working directory for each 
drive. For example, if the working directory of drive "Z:" is r"Z:\eggs", then 
"Z:spam" resolves to r"Z:\eggs\spam".

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Vedran Čačić]

Vedran Čačić  added the comment:

> First, I hope we all agree:
> 'C:\Windows\..\Program Files' and '/usr/../bin' == relative path

I don't agree. To me, absolute means regardless of a reference point. So, 
absolute path would be a path that refers to the same entity from whichever 
directory you reference it. And that is surely the case for these two.

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[EZ]

EZ  added the comment:

First, I hope we all agree:
'C:\Windows' and '/usr/bin' == absolute path
'Windows' and 'bin' == relative path
'C:\Program Files' and '/bin' == absolute path
'C:\Windows\..\Program Files' and '/usr/../bin' == relative path

It is very confusing between these two, but despite claims otherwise, 
absolute() does not work as expected. However, to sum up the findings below: 
* absolute() fails to resolve paths with relative steps (esp "..") but will 
always add the dir structure even if the file doesn't exist.
* resolve() will always give an absolute path.
** unless the file doesn't exist -- 
** unless unless the path includes a '..'! 
* There's also a related problem with is_absolute() being incorrect with 
relative paths (such as '..'), which usually results in it saying 
absolute().is_absolute() is True when it is obviously False.

Done on Windows 10, python 3.9.5

>>> ini
WindowsPath('desktop.ini/..')
>>> ini.resolve().is_absolute()
True
>>> ini.absolute()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/desktop.ini/..')
>>> ini.absolute().is_absolute()
True

This second should not be True, there is a trailing '..' not resolved by 
absolute()

Now let's create a truly messy path:
>>> ini.resolve()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads')
>>> ini = ini / "ntuser.ini"
>>> ini.exists()
False
>>> ini.resolve()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/ntuser.ini')
>>> ini = ini / "../ntuser.ini"
>>> ini.exists()
False
>>> ini.resolve()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/ntuser.ini')
>>> ini = ini / "../../ntuser.ini"
>>> ini.resolve()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/ntuser.ini')
>>> ini.exists()
True
>>> ini.absolute()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/desktop.ini/../ntuser.ini/../ntuser.ini/../../ntuser.ini')
>>> ini.absolute().is_absolute()
True

absolute() not only doesn't give an absolute path, but is_absolute() is somehow 
ok with that.

Now a file that doesn't exist:
>>> mike = Path("palin.jpg")
>>> mike.resolve()
WindowsPath('palin.jpg')
>>> mike.resolve().is_absolute()
False
>>> mike.absolute()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/palin.jpg')
>>> mike.absolute().is_absolute()
True

Finally, absolute() is right about the right thing, but resolve() is not 
terribly wrong. is_absolute() is correctly False here (for once). 

The problem is that the after a resolve() call, a Path object can still be used 
to create a file (good), but if resolve() is used before file creation, then 
the full path will not be there as should be expected (bad). This seems like a 
bug with resolve()

What if a file is non existent AND relative? Things get more confusing.

>>> badrel = Path('../circus.jpg')
>>> badrel
WindowsPath('../circus.jpg')
>>> badrel.absolute()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/Downloads/../circus.jpg')
>>> badrel.resolve()
WindowsPath('C:/Users/zim/circus.jpg')
>>> badrel.exists()
False

So, absolute() still acts like the normal trash fire it is with relative paths, 
but what's this, resolve() actually gives an absolute path?!

I should note resolve() only behaves unpredictably on Windows. It correctly 
resolves non-existent files no matter what on macOS and Linux (caveat: my linux 
test was done with python 3.6). However, absolute() always fails to distill 
paths with relative steps regardless of OS.

So, it seems clear:
Bug 1: resolve() should work the same with non-existent files with incomplete 
paths on Windows as it does on *nix platforms, as it does on Windows when 
handling existent files and non-existent ones with parent path notation.
Bug 2: Obviously if absolute() is supposed to be in the lib, it should be 
documented, and it likely should be distinct from resolve(), but most of all: 
it should return actual absolute paths! If these cannot be fulfilled, it should 
be set to be deprecated (after resolve() is fixed, hopefully)
Bug 3: is_absolute() should actually detect absolute paths, instead it seems to 
report True if the path contains a root starting point, but ignores relative 
changes in between. (this issue exists on all three major OSs)

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versions: +Python 3.9

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[4-launchpad-kalvdans-no-ip-org]

Change by 4-launchpad-kalvdans-no-ip-org :


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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[John Hennig]

John Hennig  added the comment:

@Floris:
> Not mentioning Path.resolve()'s behavior w.r.t. non-existing files since
that's documented in resolve() itself.

I don't see it mentioned in the documentation of `resolve()`, or anywhere else 
in the docs, that on Windows (but not on other platforms) `resolve()` does 
*not* resolve a relative path to an absolute path if the file does not exist. 
As opposed to `absolute()`, which works as expected on any platform.

Linux:
```
Python 3.6.9 (default, Oct  8 2020, 12:12:24)
[GCC 8.4.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from pathlib import Path
>>> file = Path('new.txt')
>>> file.exists()
False
>>> file.resolve()
PosixPath('/home/user/new.txt')
```

Windows:
```
Python 3.9.2 (tags/v3.9.2:1a79785, Feb 19 2021, 13:44:55) [MSC v.1928 64 bit 
(AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from pathlib import Path
>>> file = Path('new.txt')
>>> file.exists()
False
>>> file.resolve()
WindowsPath('new.txt')
>>> file.absolute()
WindowsPath('d:/home/new.txt')
>>> file.touch()
>>> file.resolve()
WindowsPath('D:/home/new.txt')
>>> file.unlink()
>>> file.resolve()
WindowsPath('new.txt')
>>>
```

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Floris Lambrechts]

Floris Lambrechts  added the comment:

Based on the feedback received in GitHub here:
https://github.com/florisla/cpython/commit/c146ad3d086fe9e401284c12fc670ea4f9398f3b

I made a new revision of the 'Absolute paths' chapter here:
https://github.com/florisla/cpython/blob/pathlib-chapter-absolute-paths-2/Doc/library/pathlib.rst#absolute-paths

Further feedback is welcome.

Changes:

* Be more 'in your face' about Path.resolve() being the recommended
  approach.
* Add separate section on Windows considerations
* Explain difference between Path.resolve() and os.path.isabs() w.r.t.
  checking for drive.
* Refer to 'mapped share' instead of 'mapped network share'.
* Explain replacement of substitute drive with final path.
* Mention os.path.abspath's upcasing of drive letter in case of
  a path missing a root.
* Mention different handling of junctions versus symlinks w.r.t.
  relative parts.

For brevity, I've kept the wording on substitute drive and handling of
junctions very short.

For the same reason I did not not include eryksun's (interesting!) info
on why mapped and substitute drives are non-canonical.

Not mentioning Path.resolve()'s behavior w.r.t. non-existing files since
that's documented in resolve() itself.

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Floris Lambrechts]

Floris Lambrechts  added the comment:

(sorry, didn't see the GitHub comments before... I'll process those first.)

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Floris Lambrechts]

Floris Lambrechts  added the comment:

@ChrisBarker,

Could you review the proposed addition to the documentation?

https://github.com/florisla/cpython/commit/c146ad3d086fe9e401284c12fc670ea4f9398f3b

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Vedran Čačić]

Vedran Čačić  added the comment:

If we want something mnemonic, I'm sure nothing beats __abs__. (Hey, we have 
__truediv__ already!;)

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Floris Lambrechts]

Floris Lambrechts  added the comment:

This is the new chapter:

https://github.com/florisla/cpython/commit/c146ad3d086fe9e401284c12fc670ea4f9398f3b

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Paul Moore]

Paul Moore  added the comment:

You've provided links to your branches, but not to the specific text you're 
proposing to add. Can you link to a diff or something that shows what you've 
added more precisely?

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Floris Lambrechts]

Floris Lambrechts  added the comment:

I've written an "Absolute paths" section based on the knowledge I found in the 
various threads.

Any review is appreciated.

https://github.com/florisla/cpython/tree/pathlib-chapter-absolute-paths

With some related documentation changes:

https://github.com/florisla/cpython/tree/absolute-path-related-improvements

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Paul Moore]

Paul Moore  added the comment:

> In short -- I understand that this is a complex issue, but making an absolute 
> path is a pretty common use case, and we've had os.path.abspath() for 
> decades, so there should be one obvious way to do it, and it should be easily 
> discoverable.

+1 on this.

Given that (as far as I can tell from the various discussions) `resolve` works 
fine as long as the file exists, maybe the key distinction to make is whether 
you have an existing file or not.

(More subtle questions like UNC path vs drive letter, mentioned on the 
Discourse thread, are probably things that we can defer to a "more advanced 
cases" discussion in the docs).

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Josh Holland]

Change by Josh Holland :


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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Chris Barker]

Chris Barker  added the comment:

Yes Please!

I'd offer to help, but I really don't get the intricacies involved. I will 
offer to proofread and copy-edit though, if that's helpful.

And I note that coincidentally, just in the last week, I needed to make an 
absolute path from a Path, and it took me far too long to figure out that 
.resolve() would do it for me. Then I needed to do it again three days later, 
and it again took a while -- "resolve" is simply not mnemonic for me, and I'm 
guessing a lot of people have the same issue.

And I didn't find .absolute(), cause it's not documented. I see in issue #29688 
that there are reasons for that, but I'll make a plea:

Please document .absolute(), even if those docs say something like "may not 
work in all circumstances, not well tested". Alternatively, if it's decided 
that folks should just use .resolve() in all cases anyway, then make 
.absolute() an alias for .resolve(). 

Or if that's not a good option, then at least put some prominent notes in 
resolve() so people will find it.

Also -- I needed to read the resolve() docs carefully (and then test) to see if 
it was what I wanted - which I know, is what this issue is about.

In short -- I understand that this is a complex issue, but making an absolute 
path is a pretty common use case, and we've had os.path.abspath() for decades, 
so there should be one obvious way to do it, and it should be easily 
discoverable.

NOTE: even if there is no one to do the work of properly testing .absolute() at 
this point, it would b nice to at least decide now what the long term goal is 
-- will there be an absolute() or is resolve() all we really need?

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[issue39090] Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path objects

[Brett Cannon]

New submission from Brett Cannon :

The question on how best to get an absolute path from a pathlib.Path object 
keeps coming up (see https://bugs.python.org/issue29688, 
https://discuss.python.org/t/add-absolute-name-to-pathlib-path/2882/, and 
https://discuss.python.org/t/pathlib-absolute-vs-resolve/2573 as examples).

As pointed out across those posts, getting the absolute path is surprisingly 
subtle and varied depending on your needs. As such we should probably add a 
section somewhere in the pathlib docs explaining the various ways and why you 
would choose one over the other.

--
assignee: docs@python
components: Documentation
messages: 358638
nosy: brett.cannon, docs@python
priority: normal
severity: normal
stage: needs patch
status: open
title: Document various options for getting the absolute path from pathlib.Path 
objects
type: enhancement

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