[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


--
type:  -> enhancement

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49118/tabs_wn.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49119/tabs_wn_padx.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

E. Paine  added the comment:

Initially, I simply changed the tab position on the settings window notebook to 
west-north (tabs_wn.png). I didn't like that the tabs were right-sticky and 
looked at changing this in the following two ways:

1) Changing the tab position to the right-side (tabs_en.png), though I believe 
they are too easy to miss in this place.

2) Setting the tab minimum width after measuring the titles using the tkinter 
default font (finding the largest of these and then adding an appropriate 
padding - for tabs_wn_padx.png, this was 10).
   This meant that tabs behaved as east-west sticky, and text was centred. I 
couldn't find how to change this to left-justified, though it is possible this 
can be done through a ttk layout.

Are there any other ideas?

If we do change the tab position, I think it would also be helpful to increase 
the font size to make them more obvious.

On a separate point, would it be better for me to upload future screenshots to 
an image hosting site and just include the link in the descriptor message?

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49117/tabs_en.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Since the help sources extend the Help menu, putting them under Extensions 
makes some sense.  But I don't know how many people would think to look at the 
tab.  But something to keep in mind.  We can also ask for user opinions on 
idle-dev list.

Notebooks can put tabs on any side.  I found one side example.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46909169/python-tkinter-side-notebook-tabs
This would allow more and longer tab names, though I would prefer 
position='w'or 'wn' (west north) instead of 'ws'.  We should try this for the 
existing extensions pane. 

When done with General, there are issues about redoing Highlights and Keys 
pages, with one person's mockups.  One problem with making changes has been 
divergent opinions.

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49114/shell_editor_page.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49113/general_page_se.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49115/shell_editor_page_pady.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

E. Paine  added the comment:

Would it be helpful to move the additional help sources to the extensions page 
(and rename it to "Add-ins")?
Just throwing ideas out there, we could also add an "Advanced" tab where we put 
the settings we (really) don't want others changing without good reason (such 
as the indentation width). However, such a tab could quite possibly mean 
reorganising the entire settings dialog.
While the original intention of this issue wasn't for a complete reorganisation 
of the dialog, I am more than willing to spend some time if we want to tie 
several other issues into this one (and it would be helpful to do so).
Another random idea is to copy other IDEs and use a tree on the left-side to 
navigate to different settings, which would allow us to keep the number of 
settings on a page much lower.
I will write a new prototype trying the "Shell/Ed" tab idea you suggested and 
will upload the relevant screenshots.

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

'Windows', not 'Window'.

The indentation width should be moved to the Window page after being converted 
and reduced to a single line with a spinbox or maybe just an entry box.

Indent spaces (standard 4) [ 4] # or
Convert tab indents to [4] spaces (standard 4)

I cannot imagine that anyone would ever want more than 8, certainly not 16.  
Note that there is another issue that will result in no longer using tabs 
instead of spaces in Shell, so that this will really be for both (all, 
including Output).

There is at least one issue where this has been discussed, with the thought 
that something that most people should and will never change is now way too 
prominent.  (My python development system with my list of issues is now being 
repaired.  There has also been discussion about converting size to a spinbox.  
There is no particular reason for the particular presets.)

The problem with General is that the items left other than Help are specific to 
either editor or shell.  I think General with general window preferences and 
Help followed by Shell/Ed specifics might be a better division.

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49109/general_page_short.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49110/window_page.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49107/general_page_pady.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49108/general_page_pady_short.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49106/general_page.png

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

New submission from E. Paine :

The proposed change to move some of the content in the "General" tab to a new 
tab. The need for this has been emphasised 
As a proof-of-concept, I moved the "Window Preferences" LabelFrame to a new tab 
titled "Window" (and did the minimum required to get the window to show).
The result can be seen in the "general_page.png" & "window_page.png" files.
Looking at the new general page, I felt that the "Editor Preferences" & "Shell 
Preferences" LabelFrames should not expand to fill the newly created space, and 
this should instead be taken up in the "Additional Help Sources" LabelFrame. 
The result can be seen in the “general_page_pady.png” file.
Finally, I felt that we could now reduce the height of the window further by 
decreasing the font page Listbox height to 10 (from 15). The result can be seen 
in “font_page_short.png”, “general_page_short.png” & 
“general_page_pady_short.png”.
As I said originally, this is just a proof-of-concept and we could easily move 
other options into a new tab (such as a “Editor/Shell” tab – though I think 
this is too long for a tab title).

--
assignee: terry.reedy
components: IDLE
messages: 367846
nosy: epaine, terry.reedy
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE split "general" into two tabs
versions: Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9

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[issue40468] IDLE split "general" into two tabs

[E. Paine]

Change by E. Paine :


Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49105/font_page_short.png

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