[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Thanks for your suggestion but changing build systems is a *huge* undertaking 
for cPython thanks to the many different platforms that we have added support 
to over the years and the many, many customizations that have been made.  cmake 
would certainly be one option; starting from scratch with modern autotools 
another. And there are many such others. But this is way beyond the scope of a 
standard feature enhancement. In fact, there have been some discussions around 
the PSF funding one or more persons to reimplement our Unix-y build system 
(note there is a separate build system for Windows platforms). As Christian 
suggests, one concrete step towards getting a new build system would be to 
write a detailed PEP and then discussing in the ideas and/or core-workflow 
groups; another would be to help secure funding.  But without first steps like 
that, there won't be anything served by further discussions here. So I'm 
closing this issue. It could be re-opened in the future once there is consen
 sus on an approach and implementation resources are identified.

--
nosy: +ned.deily
resolution:  -> postponed
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[TheUltimatePineapple]

TheUltimatePineapple  added the comment:

For me CPython has caused a lot of pain without having CMake.

I have to manually compile CPython on each OS I want to support, having to fix 
the quirks on each build system and I have keep the built linkable blobs in my 
project which increases the repo size.

It seems though the people here are so old-fashioned they don't see the point 
in CMake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't think I can keep CPython adopted in my engine if it keeps being this 
way, I'll have to look into alternate scripting languages which don't rely on 
antiquated build systems.

--

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[Chris Jerdonek]

Chris Jerdonek  added the comment:

This was discussed a bit last December 2019 here ("Is there prior discussion 
around the build system of CPython itself?"):
https://discuss.python.org/t/is-there-prior-discussion-around-the-build-system-of-cpython-itself/2813

--
nosy: +chris.jerdonek

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:

How about you start with a PEP that compares our current build system with 
CMake and explores if CMake is a viable option? Is CMake supported on platforms 
like Solaris, HP-UX, VxWorks? Or are there better options for a new build 
system for CPython, for example Meson? After all Meson is written in Python and 
used by large projects like X.org, Wayland, major parts of Gnome, systemd, and 
more.

PS: I find your phrasing and choice of words aggressive, condescending, 
patronizing. Please turn it down a nudge.

--
nosy: +christian.heimes

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[Rémi Lapeyre]

Rémi Lapeyre  added the comment:

Can you point to specific issues with the current build system?

It seems to me that for 1. it will only make it easier for projects that use 
CMake, 2. the build system is not the only part needed to support a new OS and 
for 3. I've not found Python to be particularly slow to build for such a large 
program. You may want to look at ccache if you want to speed you build process 
(I'm not using it on this computer and it's still quite fast, Make will only 
rebuild the appropriate object files already unless you explicitly clean them).

Before making large changes to the build system, you should open a thread on 
the python-ideas mailing list, there was some discussion about this a few years 
back but maybe now that Python2 is gone it would be easier to make this change?

--
nosy: +remi.lapeyre

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[pmp-p]

pmp-p  added the comment:

Hi, I'm always curious about others experiences : why would you need 
cross-platform building for any of the officially supported platforms ?

Also on some random unsupported platforms that require cross-compilation like 
maybe android, wasm or other uncommon posix, cmake is maybe not yet fully 
ready. So it may be easier to hack the old system if not alternative is present.

--
nosy: +pmpp

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[issue40743] [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?

[TheUltimatePineapple]

New submission from TheUltimatePineapple :

The current CPython build system is antiquated and makes cross-platform builds 
difficult (in my experience). There have been unofficial CMake implementations 
but they are either outdated, abandoned or just unusable.

Adopting CMake has many benefits, here are few:

1. Simplifies cross-platform builds and inclusion of CPython in other projects 
as subdirectory/subproject.

2. Automatically generated builds for any CMake supported OS'es, no need to 
maintain an unique build system for each OS, only the CMake script.

3. Faster. Just the configuration process in current build system for Unix is 
super slow, making testing changes slow and painful.

--
components: Build
messages: 369724
nosy: TheUltimatePineapple
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: [CMake] It's 2020, where is CMake?
type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.10

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