[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:

> Does AIX support the s390 architecture?

The platform triplet is s390-linux-gnu, not AIX.

> Because one user was surprised by a few lines in configure.ac, the conclusion 
> is to remove support for that architecture?

You are misinterpreting my words. My initial posting explains that the hardware 
platform is no longer supported by any of our supported operating systems. I 
want to make it obvious that the platform has been dropped half a decade ago.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  added the comment:

> I opened this ticket after a user told me that they grepped the source code 
> of Python, found the string "s390", and concluded that s390 is still 
> supported by us.

Because one user was surprised by a few lines in configure.ac, the conclusion 
is to remove support for that architecture?

That's a very odd justification.

If it really just affects configure.ac, I don't really see a point in removing 
them. Even in OpenJDK we keep such unofficial architectures in configure.ac 
(with my OpenJDK upstream maintainer hat on).

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

Does AIX support the s390 architecture?

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> I propose to remove check for __s390__ from configure.ac and configure.

I don't see a big benefit of removing a few lines of configure.ac. It's not 
like it's a big maintenance burden.

> It's about setting expectations. For some users, the presence of a platform 
> triplet implies support for a platform.

I maintain https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html : unofficial list of 
platforms and C compilateurs supported by Python, and the different kinds of 
support levels (supported, best effort, not supported).

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:

> That's an argument I have personally never heard before and I have been 
> dealing with a lot of architecture support in many packages.

I opened this ticket after a user told me that they grepped the source code of 
Python, found the string "s390", and concluded that s390 is still supported by 
us.

This ticket is really just about s390. I said that we *might* want to remove 
other platform at a *later* point. For now I don't mind to keep them. We could 
also put unsupported platforms behind a --enable-unsupported-platforms guard. 
The option would allow you to compile on retro platforms and serve as indicator 
that the platform is not supported by us.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  added the comment:

That's an argument I have personally never heard before and I have been dealing 
with a lot of architecture support in many packages.

FWIW, lots of upstream projects have targets which are officially supported and 
others which are there but not supported and that was never really a problem.

As long as the architectures are being maintained in the Linux kernel, GCC, 
binutils and glibc, they can be considered usable and maintained.

The m68k architecture for example has a very active and large community due to 
the popularity of retro computing. This has lead to efforts which will soon 
bring Rust support to M68k and the Amiga.

I therefore don't really understand what you gain when you make it harder for 
downstreams to use Python.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:

It's about setting expectations. For some users, the presence of a platform 
triplet implies support for a platform.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  added the comment:

And, FWIW, I generally don't quite understand what the problem with old triplet 
definitions in configure.ac are. I assume they don't hurt anyone, do they?

You never know what usecases your users have and as long as a code snippet 
doesn't interfere with other code, I don't see little point in removing it.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  added the comment:

I'm a Debian Developer and maintainer for multiple Debian Ports architectures.

Please don't remove support for Alpha, HPPA, m68k, ia64, PowerPC, SuperH, SPARC 
as we're still maintaining these in Debian.

Here are the latest build results for Python3.9 in Debian with build logs for 
all these architectures:

> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=python3.9&suite=sid

There are no issues reported and we heavily rely on Python.

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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

Change by Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis :


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[issue43179] Remove s390 support

[Christian Heimes]

New submission from Christian Heimes :

configure.ac contains triplet definitions for s390 and s390x mainframes. While 
s390x (Linux on IBM Z) is still widely supported, s390 is not. s390 was 
released in 1990 and discontinued in 1998, 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/390

Ariadne Conill from Alpine pointed out that:

Linux has not supported booting on traditional 31-bit s390 since
Linux 4.1 in 2015. If you can't boot s390 (not s390x) with a modern
kernel, it is absurd to demand that other projects support s390.

https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/issues/5771#issuecomment-775872483

I propose to remove check for __s390__ from configure.ac and configure.

We might also want to remove __alpha__, __hppa__, and __m68k__ at a later 
point. DEC hasn't been around for a long time.

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components: Interpreter Core
messages: 386709
nosy: christian.heimes
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Remove s390 support
versions: Python 3.10

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