Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just a note, that an (updated) version of the auto-generated API reference has
been "officially" added to TkDocs ... see https://tkdocs.com/pyref/
Few more things I'd like to do with it in the short term, but it's a decent
starting point
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I'd argue for removing the links altogether, given the material is very
outdated and from what I recall anything that was there is better covered now
by TkDocs, Shipman, or other resources.
--
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Let it go. Changing the Python docs to a behaviour that isn't guaranteed by the
underlying library is a virtual guarantee that a later version of Tk (or even
the way the API it uses behaves on another version of macOS) will have some
other (unre
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I was having a peek at the main tkinter doc page again and would like to take a
broader crack at it. I think most of what is there now (life
preserver/reference) needs to be substantially reworked or trimmed.
I think exhaustive description of all methods etc
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Here are my broad suggestions for improvement (each of these would turn into a
separate PR). Thoughts for/against each?
1. 'See also' section: use this to guide people to what they need. update to
point out challenge of finding material giv
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Here's a very rough work-in-progress snapshot:
https://github.com/roseman/cpython/blob/tkinter-docs-snapshot-20210815/Doc/library/tkinter.rst
This includes:
1. Changes I'd mentioned to the intro, external resources, modules, architecture
2. Rewr
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I would most definitely echo the concern about the massive size of such a
project as well as future maintainability. I don't know anyone who would be
able to do such a thing on a volunteer basis, and I think it would be highly
unlikely that anyone would
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Łukasz, I've got a bunch of individual branches for each of those sections.
What I posted the link to was a merge of all of them just for overview
purposes, but the PR's will be created from the individual branches. I can
start creating those now or
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Łukasz, thank you very much for your help with getting these changes merged in!
I hope others will chime in with suggestions and/or edits to the newer or
substantially revised sections. There is most definitely lots of room for
improvement.
One specific
Mark Roseman added the comment:
yes this should be closed.. with latest doc updates, most of these are no
longer at all relevant
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Would like to throw an idea out for feedback regarding the API reference.
I've done some preliminary work auto-generating documentation via widget
introspection. It's missing a lot, has many bugs, but is far enough along to
give a sense of what thi
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Terry, I agree that Ctrl-C should act just as an interrupt when the debugger is
active. I also agree that a way to interrupt the debugger through the user
interface is needed (in the revised UI, there's an explicit 'stop' b
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Hello, also (very) late to this party.
If this would be useful, and unless anyone has any objections, I'd be open to
hosting a copy of John's material on tkdocs.com. I'd add a header to each page
explaining it's an unmaintained archiv
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've posted a copy at https://tkdocs.com/shipman/
I've lightly modified it to add a site header and explanation of where the
material comes from and caveats about age to each page, and have removed or
crossed out dead links, requests for feedbac
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Elaine, I was just having a look at this the other day too! I agree, this is
definitely worth some effort to get done.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of the vwait solution to force the dialog to be
modal. It doesn't actually make it modal (i.e. you ca
Mark Roseman added the comment:
For future reference, if anyone is wondering why the font chooser is so
complicated to use in a way that makes sense across platforms, here is its
current behaviour...
>From the manual:
- configure -font is the font currently shown or font shown when dia
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've put together the first cut of a wrapper that tries to smooth over some of
the non-essential differences in implementation details across platforms, while
still respecting essential platform conventions. It also works around a few
bugs I discovered
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just noting that the current search dialogs (and others) do not have a
ttk.Frame directly inside the toplevel which encloses all other widgets. They
therefore still display the mismatched backgrounds on macOS.
Given that, should #33987 be reopened? The
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Tal, I gave it a try, I think this is great. For "simple" searches (i.e. what
people do most of the time), a search bar is a lot less klunky than bringing up
a dialog.
Patch seems to work well, would just need a cosmetic update (ttk widgets etc.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I like Terry's idea of providing a better error message than just "invalid
syntax" when we run something that likely isn't a Python file. There doesn't
seem to be any great danger in trying to run any file that would just
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
have updated/cleaned up the previous patch, and there's a new PR. i realize
this is unfortunately a somewhat monolithic change which might make reviewing
it a bit tough...
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Change by Mark Roseman :
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pull_requests: +21872
stage: test needed -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22954
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Whoops, sorry... there's a "readonly" state flag that disables direct editing
of the entry (like with combobox) and just allows manipulation of the arrows.
I've updated the PR to set that. I've also changed it so that the contents
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just as a side note for Terry and anyone else testing on macOS... the recent
updates in Tk have smoothed out many of the appearance issues for the classic
widgets. See the attached screen shot tkversions.png comparing 8.6.9 with the
current trunk of the Tk
Mark Roseman added the comment:
FYI, just added a trivial pull request to change the tagline in the about
dialog to 'integrated development and learning environment'. It's showing up as
from python-dev as I hadn't (yet) added my github name to my bpo prefs. Got
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
The ttk Notebook wouldn't be appropriate as it doesn't scale beyond a small
(generally fixed) number of tabs, and is missing UI to easily add/delete tabs.
There's some discussion of this in earlie
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Cheryl, regarding the spinbox, as per
http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/morewidgets.html#spinbox, the ttk version
appeared in Tk 8.5.9, which might explain it's absence in tkinter.
A wrapper isn't too hard to do of course... e.g.
https://stackov
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Please go ahead with any of the patches I submitted earlier, credit is
absolutely not an issue.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
This seems very complicated. The official line on threads for Tk has always
been to make all Tk calls from one thread, which is at least predictable and
comprehensible. Is there any reason for Tkinter to suggest anything different?
This ignores the compilation
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Hi Ivan, thanks for your detailed response. The approach you're suggesting
("Since the sole offender is their threading model, the way is to show them how
it's defective and work towards improving it.") is in the end not something I
think
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Ivan, thanks for making a good first pass of this. The thread section still
feels a lot like 'fighting' with the model. Do you mind if I take a crack at
it? Won't get to it for a few days, but in case you have any stuff you're in
the m
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've made some changes to what Ivan started, which you can find here:
https://github.com/roseman/cpython/tree/tkinter_docs
The first two commits are minor updates/improvements not really related to
threading, and I suspect are uncontroversial.
The
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Given the difference between the old and new (ttk) spinbox, especially on
macOS, I'd like to incorporate it into IDLE when available. See screenshot
spinbox.png, noting white border around old one.
Terry, can we add a spinbox wrapper to IDLE for the
Mark Roseman added the comment:
For now, using a (likely very minimal) subset of commands/options common to
both classic and ttk spinbox versions in IDLE sounds good.
I was originally thinking stick with "-textvariable" for setting (which works
on both) but I like your idea of a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just to note, this remains a PITA. To run gui tests on macOS from a terminal
window seems to require commenting out the SetFrontProcess() call. A better
replacement is needed as noted in the previous discussion, as well this call
was deprecated in OS X 10.9
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New submission from Mark Roseman :
When adding a bunch of ttk widgets into a toplevel window, there needs to be an
intervening ttk.Frame to ensure the background of the widgets matches the
overall background.
The reason is the 'toplevel' is part of the classic tk widgets and not t
Change by Mark Roseman :
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components: +IDLE
nosy: +markroseman
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New submission from Mark Roseman :
Just a couple of minor things which this terminal session points out
s = ttk.Style()
s.element_options('Button.label')
('-compound', '-space', '-text', '-font', '-foreground', '-underline'
Mark Roseman added the comment:
tried this patch on 3.6 as per terry's previous msg; still getting same error
in idle test suite on os x
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Side note that on Mac OS X, buttons normally don't get the focus, so that this
isn't an issue. Well except that buttons are getting the focus here. :-)
Also since we're reinventing the wheel, please note that alternative keyboard
shortcut
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Terry, thanks for the TkDocs correction.
As you'll note from the attached dlgonmac.png, there's a bit of tweaking needed
with regard to geometry management etc. to get the background right.
Now that ttk is ok (so to speak), would you be open to so
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Great start. Needs to have a ttk.Frame directly inside the toplevel window to
avoid whitespace showing around grey widgets (like in query dialog shot).
I'd also like to see the spacing adjusted (all platforms) and button positions
changed on Mac to go a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Serhiy, the tk_dialog has been superseded by tk_messageBox, and does not
reflect current platform standards. I just tried tk_messageBox on the Mac,
which always activates the default button if you press 'return', even if
another button has the focus
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Just to follow up, both Windows and Linux the 'correct' behaviour seems to be
that space or return activates the button with the current focus. Mac behaves
differently in that return key always activates default button even if focus is
on another b
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've attached query.patch, which does the cosmetic and layout changes, and adds
a couple Mac-specific things. I've added the inline error message widget but
don't use it yet (as this will involve changes to the subclasses and the tests,
given e
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Have attached search.diff, which does an initial bit of cosmetics: adds inner
frame with spacing, tweaks a couple labels, and for Mac and X11, puts the
command buttons at the bottom of the dialog rather than on the right (where
they remain on Windows
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Thanks Terry! I'd be good if you want to put a width back on the buttons, but
I'd suggest "width=6" rather than using 8 as it was before.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've done some playing around... not quite there yet, but I think much closer.
First, I assume the 'freeze' on Mac is not a hard freeze, but where the text
window is not responding to events, but if you switch to another app and back,
it works
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Looks great Terry - thanks. Only nit is that test_click_help_source fails on
Mac, courtesy a leading 'file://' added in the last few lines of path_ok
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Justin, as you say, I think your patch is entirely reasonable as an interim
step, as eventually doing a broader improvement on the preferences dialog as
suggested in #24781 makes sense.
My reworked version used Combobox in similar ways; I think we can safely
New submission from Mark Roseman:
By default, IDLE chooses courier for the text editor font.
As you'll see from the attached screenshot, while this looks ok on Windows,
it's inconsistent with the standard fixed width fonts on Linux and OS X, and
borders on unreadable particula
Mark Roseman added the comment:
As indicated in prior comments, the tearoff menus are strictly a holdover from
ancient Motif, and are no longer found in current user interfaces on any
platform. Because of that, I would strongly support deleting them altogether,
rather than making available a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Same changes for 2.7 branch
--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40059/tearoff27.patch
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Quick question how best to represent this in the config-main.def file. My
thought is to leave a "font=" line there so that the GetOption call returns an
empty string. The editor code can then detect that and substitute TkFixedFont.
Would this brea
New submission from Mark Roseman:
The screen shot shows the current version of the main IDLE window, with the
little pics at the bottom indicating what it looks like when the window loses
focus. A few entirely cosmetic changes I'd like to make here:
1. Swap scrollbar for ttk scrollbar;
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Doing it via the option database vs. on each menu would be my preferred
approach. The option database is global, not per toplevel, so would cover
everything. Only 'downside' is the whole its-not-an-application-its-a-library
thing, though in the highl
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I'm ok with putting TkFixedFont in the config file. Only potential downside I
see is that the code will look for this specific value, but people may read the
config file and assume it could be changed to any Tk*Font.
I'd strongly argue against pu
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Sounds good. To clarify, (2) refers to not the overall window, but just around
the text widget. Both regarding this and the comments regarding status bar (4),
things look really good now on Windows. The changes I've made are barely
perceptible there
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Sounds good. Only suggestion, given it's user facing, is to have the error
message point them towards a solution. Off the top of my head, maybe something
like "IDLE requires Python be configured to use Tk 8.5 or newer (you have Tk
x.x)" with a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
The attached mainwin.patch implements these few small changes (except for
removing the Mac grow box space); checked active/inactive on Mac, Windows,
Linux.
--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40070/mainwin.patch
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Great. Sent in the contributor agreement Monday so I assume it should percolate
through soon.
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New submission from Mark Roseman:
Is there any reason the IDLE settings dialog is modal?
(Actually while it is modal on Windows and Linux, on OS X you can actually
switch back to the main window while the settings dialog is up, but you can't
actually type etc. into it!)
While I
Mark Roseman added the comment:
The mainwin2.patch keeps the width of the fields constant. Thanks!
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
Ok, I'll do some playing around with that one over the next few days, and see
if anything comes up.
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I'll raise the practical matter that ActiveState no longer distributes 8.4.x as
part of its Community edition ActiveTcl, though I presume it would be available
as part of its for-fee Business version. Therefore if someone wants to use
Python on 10.5, it
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Ned, quick question... if there is a tcl/tk 8.5.x on the system, will the 32
bit prebuilt distros link with it, or only with a 8.4.x version?
--
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've attached defaultfont.patch which will look for the magic value
'TkFixedFont' in the configuration file and do some appropriate magic with it.
Most of the font handling smarts are now in a 'GetFont' call in configHandler,
which a
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Serhiy, I appreciate what you're saying, but special casing to handle both ttk
and non-ttk cases seems not feasible given the amount of resources available to
enhance/maintain IDLE. Additionally, part of the rationale for making these
changes is to simplif
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Got it re: 2.7/3.4. So the only stumbling block left to 8.5/ttk in 3.5 would be
the current Mac build that is ok with Tcl/Tk 8.4...?
--
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
What do you think of the layout in cfg_font_layout.png? (before/after)
--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40105/cfg_font_layout.png
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
For illustration, attached idle_find_ttk.png, which is a minor layout tweak of
the existing one (works on all the various find dialogs, though not shown in
screen shot). I agree with Al's other suggestions here.
--
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Added file:
New submission from Mark Roseman:
Placeholder for improvements to the syntax highlighting tab in IDLE config
dialog.
I've attached cfg_highlight.png which shows a before and after I'm suggesting
as a starting point. It would have the same functionality but uses a lot less
pieces to
New submission from Mark Roseman:
I'm wondering about moving the functionality of the 'configure extensions'
dialog into the main configuration dialog. As I don't know the history here,
I'm wondering why it was made separate.
My proposal would be to add an 'Exte
Mark Roseman added the comment:
Incidentally (and this I would say is a definite bug) because the modal doesn't
fully work on the Mac, you can actually create multiple copies of the config
dialog!
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Mark Roseman added the comment:
While I think this approach would largely be a bad idea for an IDLE-sized
application, where I think it definitely would be useful is in something very
restricted like the tkSimpleDialog code.
To improve the various little 'askstring', '
Mark Roseman added the comment:
One of the other options I was playing with previously was a listbox for
choosing the theme (what I'd suspect is the main user activity here).
--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40110/cfg_highlight_al
Mark Roseman added the comment:
cfg_highlight_alt.png shows with the listbox for choosing a theme
Also added highlight3.png... same kind of thing, but by renaming the tab as
'Themes' you no longer even need the row of labels at the top. And it parallels
the fonts/tabs design
Mark Roseman added the comment:
The squares next to foreground/background are placeholders for those controls I
can't remember what they're called (colour wells?) where it shows the current
colour, and clicking it brings up a colour picker allowing you to change. So
separat
Mark Roseman added the comment:
I've attached extdlg.patch, which changes the UI for the configure extensions
dialog.
In particular, it replaces the stacked tabs with a listbox on the left, with
the details of each extension appearing in a labelframe on the right. The
inside o
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