[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Moritz Neeb added the comment: Tried to summarize the previous discussion and generate a compromise here. Patch attached. -- nosy: +zormit Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file33757/devguide-patch.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Changes by Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com: -- type: - enhancement ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe tshep...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +tshepang ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com added the comment: PEP 387 explains the rules about backward compatibility. The paragraph could just link to that. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: This is the wording I committed: (This obviously does not apply to new classes or functions; new arguments should be optional and have default values which maintain the existing behavior.) Should I push or should I delete the changeset? -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu added the comment: Ezio's comment got me to reread the entire paragraph. I do not like it. 'Having you think' is wrong; 'Basically just' is unneeded; 'guaranteed' is hyperbole; and the paragraph is otherwise repetitive, vague, and pretty useless. For most issues the core developer who eventually handles your patch will make the final call on whether something is acceptable is not exactly true and misses the point that we have clearly defined policies that all core developers follow. Here is a suggested replacement that says what is actually acceptable for what versions. Second, follow our backwards-compatibility and upgrade policies. New parameters (whose default is the current behavior), functions, and methods may be accepted, but only for a future x.y version. New classes, modules, and syntax (including keywords) get increasingly severe scrutiny and require discussion on the python-dev list. Bug fixes that make behavior better match the documented intention are nearly always accepted for current releases. So are fixes for mistakes and sufficiently bad wording in the documents. Changes away from the current documented behavior are only occasionally accepted and only for future releases. Since they nearly always require at least a few people to update their code, they require special consideration, including a python-dev discussion, and a deprecation process. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com added the comment: That's a bit heavy in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary to define in detail what backward-compatibile means, it's probably enough to say that whatever code might be running before the patch should keep running fine even after. Bug fixes can change the behavior -- but only if the current behavior is clearly wrong. In addition you might want to define the meaning of features, bug fixes, and security fixes, mention what releases accept what, say that doc fixes are usually fine in bug fix releases too, and possibly document the deprecation process. But maybe this is getting out of the initial scope of the issue :) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com added the comment: I don't think we need to mention that. Actually the tone of the whole paragraph could be relaxed a bit, because it first says that any change **will** break code (which is not true), except new semantic, obviously (which is not true either). The whole sentence could also be dropped altogether IMHO. Basically just put yourself in the shoes of someone whose code will be broken by a change to pre-existing semantics. is already clear enough, and it could be rephrased to Basically just put yourself in the shoes of someone whose code will be broken by the change(s) introduced by the patch. to avoid talking about 'semantics'. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Jyrki Pulliainen jy...@dywypi.org added the comment: Updated the existing patch with the new wording -- nosy: +Jyrki.Pulliainen Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file23437/clarify-bwcompat-devguide_v2.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: I like it. Terry, objections? -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com added the comment: LGTM. (Actually you can still break someone's code by introducing new functions/classes, in case they get imported with 'from mod import *' and override some local function/class with the same name -- but this is such an obscure case that doesn't deserve to be mentioned (and 'import *' is bad practice anyway).) -- nosy: +ezio.melotti ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu added the comment: To be more exact, optional arguments should be more extended to optional arguments whose default maintains the existing behavior -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: Okay for a new sentence. I think repeating new is clearer: (This obviously does not apply to new classes or functions, or new optional arguments.) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Sandro Tosi sandro.t...@gmail.com added the comment: (this obviously does not apply to new classes, functions or *optional* arguments) ? -- nosy: +sandro.tosi ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: Good idea. So, any -1 on this: (this obviously does not apply to new classes or functions, or new optional arguments) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu added the comment: The parenthetical comment is a complete sentence, and no longer trivial. I would separate it and write it more simply as ... their code. (This obviously does not apply to new classes, functions, or optional arguments.) -- nosy: +terry.reedy ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: What about this: (this obviously does not apply to new classes, functions or arguments) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment: New semantics may also be something else than new classes or functions. New optional function arguments exposing new functionality, for example. -- nosy: +petri.lehtinen ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12296] Minor clarification in devguide
New submission from Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org: I found the wording of one line of the devguide strange and changed it IMO for the better. Please review. -- assignee: eric.araujo components: Devguide files: clarify-bwcompat-devguide.diff keywords: needs review, patch messages: 137994 nosy: eric.araujo priority: normal severity: normal stage: patch review status: open title: Minor clarification in devguide versions: 3rd party Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file22295/clarify-bwcompat-devguide.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12296 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
